[wdp67]

Hi all
I am getting a Bridgeport clone, it has a 3 hp 220/440 3 phase motor on it.
I have 240 single phase at my home. Can anyone help me as to what I would need to get this mill up and running without having to upgrade my electrical service.

I was thinking, though I do not know that some kind of VFD would be what I need, but am anxiously awaiting your advice.

Thanks a bunch!

Walt

[Al_The_Man]

You need to get one that accepts 1 phase input, if the model you get requires de-rating on 1 phase, 5hp is usually the max that accepts 1 phase.
Hitachi appear to be popular here.
Often you can get high end ones on ebay, such as Mitsubishi or Square D Altivar for e.g.
Al.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Hi all
I am getting a Bridgeport clone, it has a 3 hp 220/440 3 phase motor on it.
I have 240 single phase at my home. Can anyone help me as to what I would need to get this mill up and running without having to upgrade my electrical service.

I was thinking, though I do not know that some kind of VFD would be what I need, but am anxiously awaiting your advice.

Thanks a bunch!

Walt

I've been using a Teco FM50-203-C on my 3HP BP clone - works great, and only $185 from factorymation.com:

http://www.factorymation.com/s.nl/it....f?category=32

Regards,
Ray L.

[wdp67]

Thanks for that, I knew that I had seen a post with a link to that Teco in it but I could not find it.

When I get to that point, I may need some more advice on wiring it up and setting and all that.

Walt

[mc-motorsports]

Thanks for that, I knew that I had seen a post with a link to that Teco in it but I could not find it.

When I get to that point, I may need some more advice on wiring it up and setting and all that.

Walt

It's probably a good deal compared to the Hitachi I just paid $290 for. I have no opinion of the Hitachi yet, just ordered the step/direction to analog board from CNC4PC so I can just hook it up to Mach so I haven't played with mine yet. But I can say the instruction BOOK is witten by and intended for engineers. I just want to get the damn thing wired and working, programming the Hitachi seems intimidating. The wiring will be the easy part...

MC

[SCzEngrgGroup]

It's probably a good deal compared to the Hitachi I just paid $290 for. I have no opinion of the Hitachi yet, just ordered the step/direction to analog board from CNC4PC so I can just hook it up to Mach so I haven't played with mine yet. But I can say the instruction BOOK is witten by and intended for engineers. I just want to get the damn thing wired and working, programming the Hitachi seems intimidating. The wiring will be the easy part...

MC

There's actually very little you *have* to program. Start with the basics, and if you don't understand an option, leave it alone. To get the VFD up and running under manual control requires only a couple of settings, if that. I think it'll work OK without changing anything. Doing computer control takes a few more. Most of them, you'll never need to touch.

Hopefully you'll have better luck with your CNC4PC speed control than I do. Mine has been squirrelly from the start, and will be replaced with something different as soon as I can manage it.

Regards,
Ray L.

[mc-motorsports]

There's actually very little you *have* to program. Start with the basics, and if you don't understand an option, leave it alone. To get the VFD up and running under manual control requires only a couple of settings, if that. I think it'll work OK without changing anything. Doing computer control takes a few more. Most of them, you'll never need to touch.

Hopefully you'll have better luck with your CNC4PC speed control than I do. Mine has been squirrelly from the start, and will be replaced with something different as soon as I can manage it.

Regards,
Ray L.

The CNC4PC board isn't the best? Hope I don't have problems??? What does yours do?

My problem was I can't mount the VFD very close to the machine without worrying about chips and what not, plus the nearest wall is 12 feet away from the machine it's going on. So when you figure even a USED quality push button station is $60 shipped, plus wiring and the time involved in wiring, and I would have had to order the push button station... I'm hoping it's just easier to take another week and just wire it into Mach3 for spindle on/off and speed control, which I wanted to do anyway, eventually, and if I'm going to have to run new wiring, may as well just tie it to the controller now and do the job once, instead of tearing out the push button wiring so I can tie it to Mach3 later.

But I use this machine every day and I can't really afford for it to be down, especially because of an add on that is not absolutly nessessary. What's your advice?

MC

[SCzEngrgGroup]

The CNC4PC board isn't the best? Hope I don't have problems??? What does yours do?

My problem was I can't mount the VFD very close to the machine without worrying about chips and what not, plus the nearest wall is 12 feet away from the machine it's going on. So when you figure even a USED quality push button station is $60 shipped, plus wiring and the time involved in wiring, and I would have had to order the push button station... I'm hoping it's just easier to take another week and just wire it into Mach3 for spindle on/off and speed control, which I wanted to do anyway, eventually, and if I'm going to have to run new wiring, may as well just tie it to the controller now and do the job once, instead of tearing out the push button wiring so I can tie it to Mach3 later.

But I use this machine every day and I can't really afford for it to be down, especially because of an add on that is not absolutly nessessary. What's your advice?

MC

My CNC4PC board (a C11) has what I assume is the same circuit as is used on the board you have. Most days it works fine, other days it seems to have morning sickness, and barely works at all. Either the motor doesn't come on, or it will run only at full speed (8200RPM....). In most cases, it starts behaving after being powered for an hour or two, but a couple of times, I couldn't get it to work the whole day. I'm going to replace it with a Homann DigiSpeed.

Electrically, having the VFD 12 feet from the motor would not be any problem at all. They do recommend using special cable if that cable is more than 330 feet! Rather than buying the "pushbutton station", all that's required to manually control the VFD is two switches, and a potentiometer. For computer control, a simple 6-wire shielded cable from the VFD to your BOB gives you everything you need. So, I would mount the VFD on the wall, go buy $10 worth of 6-wire shielded cable, and you'll be all set.

Regards,
Ray L.

[mc-motorsports]

My CNC4PC board (a C11) has what I assume is the same circuit as is used on the board you have. Most days it works fine, other days it seems to have morning sickness, and barely works at all. Either the motor doesn't come on, or it will run only at full speed (8200RPM....). In most cases, it starts behaving after being powered for an hour or two, but a couple of times, I couldn't get it to work the whole day. I'm going to replace it with a Homann DigiSpeed.

Electrically, having the VFD 12 feet from the motor would not be any problem at all. They do recommend using special cable if that cable is more than 330 feet! Rather than buying the "pushbutton station", all that's required to manually control the VFD is two switches, and a potentiometer. For computer control, a simple 6-wire shielded cable from the VFD to your BOB gives you everything you need. So, I would mount the VFD on the wall, go buy $10 worth of 6-wire shielded cable, and you'll be all set.

Regards,
Ray L.

??? Don't have the board yet, did get an email that said it shipped already though, probably will have it Wendsday, and will probably wire it up on Saturday. I have the C6 boad on the way:

http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/prod...products_id=58

The closest wall is 12 feet, which would be the closest I could mount the VFD, but there is also machinery lining that whole wall. Nearest I could mount the VFD and be able to get at it easily would be almost 20 feet away, so I figured instead of buying push buttons or a push button station and wiring that in, just take the little bit of extra time and wire it up to Mach3.

If I have problems, you'll probably see me *****in on another thread
Thanks,
MC

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Good luck!

Regards,
Ray L.

[9 1/2]

I've been runing a Hitachi for some years. Basically problem free. One word of advice/caution. Make sure you buy one large enough to handle the starting load of the spindle.

As explanation here is my issue: If I've shut the spindle off at say 3500 rpm there is so much start up load that the amperage draw faults the VFD. Research (filed under 20/20) shows that the starting amperage draw is equal to the MAX allowable draw on my VFD before it faults however, this MAX draw exceeded the allowable time value permitted for the VFD to operate at that level. Results in a drive fault. As a work around I try to remember to spool down RPM to 1000 or less prior to shut down.

sorry for the long post.

Owen

EDIT: I have noticed several posters asking about VFD location and access to. I assume this is to turn the device on and off to either activate / deactivate the spindle OR just simply turn it on for useage. To that end a comment that MOST VFD will have Analogue and digital inputs. Use the analogue inputs to trigger the VFD ON and OFF with simple open / close switching (or in the case of my mill I use the stock Start / enable switches) This allows the VFD to mount INSIDE the control box and be turned on / off from the outside.

peace

[SCzEngrgGroup]

I've been runing a Hitachi for some years. Basically problem free. One word of advice/caution. Make sure you buy one large enough to handle the starting load of the spindle.

As explanation here is my issue: If I've shut the spindle off at say 3500 rpm there is so much start up load that the amperage draw faults the VFD. Research (filed under 20/20) shows that the starting amperage draw is equal to the MAX allowable draw on my VFD before it faults however, this MAX draw exceeded the allowable time value permitted for the VFD to operate at that level. Results in a drive fault. As a work around I try to remember to spool down RPM to 1000 or less prior to shut down.

sorry for the long post.

Owen

EDIT: I have noticed several posters asking about VFD location and access to. I assume this is to turn the device on and off to either activate / deactivate the spindle OR just simply turn it on for useage. To that end a comment that MOST VFD will have Analogue and digital inputs. Use the analogue inputs to trigger the VFD ON and OFF with simple open / close switching (or in the case of my mill I use the stock Start / enable switches) This allows the VFD to mount INSIDE the control box and be turned on / off from the outside.

peace

Owen,

I had that problem with mine as well, when I ran 8200 RPM. However, proper configuration of the start-stop ramps in the VFD, and the CW/CCW commands and dwells in Mach3, solved the problem. You need to program the dwell in Mach 3 so it leaves the VFD CW/CCW inputs active for several seconds after running the analog RPM voltage down. I get no faults since configuring everything properly.

Regards,
Ray L.

[9 1/2]

>snip<, proper configuration of the start-stop ramps in the VFD,>snip<
Regards,
Ray L.

Ray, thanks for the tip!! I'm consulting my config docs right now. What you did makes sense, funny I didn't consider that myself.

Good stuf.
:cheers:
Owen

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Ray, thanks for the tip!! I'm consulting my config docs right now. What you did makes sense, funny I didn't consider that myself.

Good stuf.
:cheers:
Owen

Owen,

No prob. If you can't sort it out, let me know, and I'll dig out exactly what I did to get it going. The basic idea is to just keep it powered until the motor slows down. Mine only faulted whe it was shut off above about 4K RPM.

Regards,
Ray L.

[mc-motorsports]

Owen,

I had that problem with mine as well, when I ran 8200 RPM. However, proper configuration of the start-stop ramps in the VFD, and the CW/CCW commands and dwells in Mach3, solved the problem. You need to program the dwell in Mach 3 so it leaves the VFD CW/CCW inputs active for several seconds after running the analog RPM voltage down. I get no faults since configuring everything properly.

Regards,
Ray L.

This is the kind of stuff I'm worried about. Maybe I should just use the bridgeport switch to turn it on and off? I never run in reverse on that machine and I can count the number of times I've used low gear. In almost 5 years, I had one job on a brigeprort that i felt the need to power tap holes on the fixture/set-up. Every other hole is tapped as a secondary opp. Plus, I guess power tapping will go out the window with the VFD? Guess I would need to knock the dust off my tapping head, if I can find it

But it would be nice if MACH3 would have control over the spindle speed and on/off. Could slow the speed for plunging with an enmill and truley run "lights out" instead of eventually having to come back and shut the machine off, or atleast the spindle...

[mc-motorsports]

And is it possible to just use the normal spindle switch to turn the VFD on and off, even if it's only 1 direction? I honestly can't remember how the HIGH/LOW or On/Off factory switch works, I would have to pull it apart and look, I was just wondering if you guys knew off the top of your head. I know its purley a mechanical contact, but I'm not sure if I would be able to wire the VFD ON and direction low voltage wiring throught the BP switch. It's a variable speed head, even at 120hz, I could just divided the speed by 2 and adjust at the machine.
Just a thought.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

And is it possible to just use the normal spindle switch to turn the VFD on and off, even if it's only 1 direction? I honestly can't remember how the HIGH/LOW or On/Off factory switch works, I would have to pull it apart and look, I was just wondering if you guys knew off the top of your head. I know its purley a mechanical contact, but I'm not sure if I would be able to wire the VFD ON and direction low voltage wiring throught the BP switch. It's a variable speed head, even at 120hz, I could just divided the speed by 2 and adjust at the machine.
Just a thought.

Most VFDs have a VERY simple control interface. The TECO needs two switches - one for ON/OFF, one for Direction - and an analog voltage, 0-10V, to control speed. The speed can be manually controlled through the front panel if you don't want to control it by computer. If you only need one direction, then a single relay for the on/off switch will turn the spindle on and off. It doesn't get any simpler.

If you have a two-speed motor, you just have to be sure to never touch the speed switch when the VFD is actually driving the motor.

Regards,
Ray L.

[Al_The_Man]

Generally with VFD's you get what you pay for, the more features, the more money.
One feature you could use is multi-speed feature, three contact closure inputs gives you 8 presetable speeds. If you want to control from Mach instead of PWM to analogue.
Another upper end feature is automatic tuning to your particular motor characteristics for better control.
Al.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Generally with VFD's you get what you pay for, the more features, the more money.
One feature you could use is multi-speed feature, three contact closure inputs gives you 8 presetable speeds. If you want to control from Mach instead of PWM to analogue.
Another upper end feature is automatic tuning to your particular motor characteristics for better control.
Al.

Al,

Of course, with *any* VFD you can create that same functionality with nothing but relays and resistors to set the VFD control voltage.

Regards,
Ray L.

[Al_The_Man]

Although it might get tricky to produce 8 speeds from three contacts.
Al.