[Temo]

Hi all,

After going crazy with and no image at the Touchscreen we finally solve that problem, now I can see whats wrong with the machine.

I have an alarm that says "Hydraulic Motor Overload" and after reading the service manual I could not find a procedure to troubleshoot this problem.

Now it says that the one cause might be the circiut braker for the motor is not adjusted properly, the first question that I have is if anybody know a tip to figure which one is it.

Thanks in advance.

[Al_The_Man]

In many cases the O/L is on the bottom of the Hyd. contactor, the O/L has signal contacts, usually one N.O. and N.C. which are used to signal the controller it has tripped.
If this is the case, there is a reset button on the O/L than can be used to remove the trip condition.
Al.

[Temo]

Hi,

Well finally I had a chance to take a look at the breaker, I found it and it does look like its tripped.

After working with it for a while I just can find the way to reset it, does any body knows how I should do this?

Thanks in advance,

Temo.

[maver1ck]

I don't have prints for your machine in front of me, but OL1 (pictured) is ordinarily used for the Drive Power Supply on Cincinnati's, not the Hydraulic system.

The hydraulic system should have a conventional circuit breaker with O/L mounted to it (as Al mentioned). If you have prints for the machine, you can easily determine what breaker number is causing the problem.

[Temo]

I have prints but not the one that shows the breakers, however, I have the schematics and now I have determined the breaker that is tripped.

Will find out tomorrow morning.

Thanks for the help.

[Al_The_Man]

Normally that type just resets by pushing the (green) trip button in?
Al.

[Temo]

It does Al, but at this point this problem has a twist.

After following the schematics for this machine I found out that a cable that goes to the PCA was not plugged in, instead there's this othe cable that it fits in the place but seem to be for an upgrade o something like that.
Anyway, I plugged the cable and the alarm is gone, however, now there's another alarm: Machine Hydraulic Pressure Switch.

It says that 2 conditions can cause the problem:
1.- an attemp was made to start the machine hydraulics and the signal for Hydraulic Pressure Switch is present before hydraulics are turned on.
2.- Machine hydraulics were started and the signal for Hydraulic Pressure Switch was not received.

Am I correct to assume that if all wires are properly connected that the Switch it self migh be bad? If so, is there a way to test the switch itself?

Thanks again.

[Al_The_Man]

A hydraulic pressure switch is usually a simple contact closure and is probably N.O. with no hydraulics and close under pressure.
A simple continuity test would do it.
Al.

[Temo]

There's no continuity at the switch.

If its N.O. It means is ok?

[Al_The_Man]

An overload can have either or both N.O. on fault or N.C. on fault.
It normally shows on the side of the O/L.
Al.

[FanFan]

Hi Al, Doesn't sound like that is this point Temo's machine is looking for the hydraulics to started? He goes to start the hydaulics and it probably tries to start but does not make his N.O. open hyd. presuure switch. The hyd OL may be tripped but by Temo manual's description is doesn't seem likely. It would be nice to know if this machine has been down for a long while ( does it have any hyd. fluid in the tank), and if it has been moved recently possible 3 phrase issue) and/ or if this machine has had mutiple issues/problems. Hope you don't mind me throwing my two cents in. FanFan

[Al_The_Man]

Feel free, other eyes on the issue always help.
A post of the schematic would be a help!
Al.

[Temo]

Regarding the schematics I'll try to get the pdf's from my boss tomorrow.

The machine has been down for at least 6 months; the boss got it in working condition from Texas but he didn't actually saw it.

Story goes that once the machine was turned on the first problem was no image at the OSA, after some trobleshooting we found out that the video card was bad that's the only thing we have change so far.

So the machine has been down for a while, the tank has hydraulic fluid, and yes, when I want to start the machine, after the screen set up, it doesn't start at all.

Fanfan you give me hope that this is something that has been discussed.

[FanFan]

Temo, When you go to start the machine ( try to take it out of an estop condition) can you hear anything? Such as any motors/ pumps trying to turn or any relays/contactors trying to pull in. Is that when the fault appears? Having prints can help a lot. Many years ago Cincinnati machines did have blue books that helped find machine problems. Can you tell us what model machine you have and what kinda of control it has on it?

Not sure what kind of experience you have, No matter what kind it is it will pay to be very careful. FanFan

[Temo]

The machine is a Cincinnati Millacron, Hawk 150 with Acramatic 2100 control.

At this point I power up the machine at the back, turn the machine on, the program loads and then I press the ON button again, then the alarm shows up, I don't hear any noise regarding motor, relays, or any other; well all the fans are on.

What have me thinking right now is that one of the possible causes is that the signal for Hydraulic Pressure Switch is present BEFORE the Hydraulics are turn on.

I check for the wire and all are conected.

Regarding prints, the machine came with manuals, one of them has some blueprints but no troubleshooting guide for stuff like this.

We got the Schematics from Siemens directly.

Regarding experience; I'm not a repair technician, just a machinist that knows CNC and programming but eager to learn new things.

[FanFan]

Hello. Temo, were you able to find some electric prints for your machine? I had worked with some Cinncinati Milacron lathes, chuckers and CDL"s about 12-15 years ago. But they had A/B controls on them, not Acramatic 2100's. So I am not sure about the exact prodceure of how to run the control. But then again they are just machine controls. I am curious to know if the machine program is running. Can you change the screens? IE; do you have DTG , Cmd, Tool offset, Program handling pages? Any chance do you have any maintenace or help pages or I/O pages? Does you blue book give you specific instruction of how to start the Hydrau;ics? Do you have to press a set of buttons in a certain sequence? Perhaps a master reset and the HYD on buttons at the same time?
Sorry about all the questions but just trying to understand what your machine is doing. Do you have any other Cinncinnati's in your shop?

It seems like you should hear something when you try to start the Hyd. up unless you are in a really noisy shop and/or if the relays / contactors and motor are in the back of the machine which they probably are.

You mentioned : "Anyway, I plugged the cable and the alarm is gone, however, now there's another alarm: Machine Hydraulic Pressure Switch.

It says that 2 conditions can cause the problem:
1.- an attemp was made to start the machine hydraulics and the signal for Hydraulic Pressure Switch is present before hydraulics are turned on.
2.- Machine hydraulics were started and the signal for Hydraulic Pressure Switch was not received."
You have to make sure which cable really should be plugged in. Knowing which cable is supposed to be used should help you track down your problem.

What ever happen to that OL that you mentioned in your earlier posts? Did you try to reset it like Al suggested? Were you able measure if the OL contacts were either or closed? They should be closed. Please remember if you are checking those various contacts you are much safer doing that with the power off. Again sorry about all the question but just trying to get some clues. FanFan

[Al_The_Man]

My guess on the sequence is that the hydraulics are turned on and the control looks for the P.S. closure within a very short time period.
It should be very obvious if the hydraulic pump comes on as not only are they usually fairly loud but a hand on the hydraulic pump will show it also.
What you could do with care, is remove the two leads from the P.S. and within 1 sec, short them with a jumper or other means, this simulates the switch action and fools the control to believing the pump has pressure.
Of course there is still a problem and could be lack of Hyd pressure if indeed the pump is turning.
It sounds to me as the the P.S. is OK.
The voltage could vary from 24vdc to 120vac, depending on what it is hooked into at the receiving end.
If the pump is not turning on when it should then this is obviously the cause of the problem.
Al.

[Temo]

Today was a crazy day at the shop but to answer some of the questions Fanfan:

I am using a digital meter and I did had it on AC.

The pressure gages are at the front of the machine and both read cero.

Regarding the message, it's all it says, well it also says possible solutions but only says "clear alarm", "check item" and "repair as necessary".

The motor does not turn on at all.

I will find a way to do both test that you guys have recommended; definitely the fault should be really close to find.

Al_The_Man, when you say that the voltage could vary does this means that 52V might not be a bad switch?

Thanks guys, I'll keep you posted.

[FanFan]

Temo, How is it going today? So the HYD motor is not turning at all. Did you get a chance to listen/watch the M contactors in the cabinet? Are any of the them trying to pick up at all? Also you mentioned guages, are there two gauges for the hyd pressure or is one for lube pressure or something else?

Just to do some housekeeping. What ever happen to OL-1? Did you ever try resetting that? Please double check that overload. When you press the trip in, how does that feel? Please compare that to any ( actually all of them) of the other overloads. When you press them in they all should "feel " the same.

Also did you check all your E-stop button. Take a minute and check them all. Press all of them in and pull ( twist) them back out. Once in a while one will find an e-stop trip that one didn't think was trip. We should get a message if the estop is tripped but let's double check them anyway. Check to see if there are any estop buttons in the back of the bach and on the chip coveyor.

If that hyd motor is not turning at all then we will have to look into that further. We will have to see where that leads us. Take it easy. FanFan

[Al_The_Man]

Al_The_Man, when you say that the voltage could vary does this means that 52V might not be a bad switch?

Thanks guys, I'll keep you posted.

If the Hyd. pump is not coming on then you can very likely ignore the pressure sw as the problem, and from what you say it appears to be working, re-set to approximately where it was and look for the reason the pump is not on.
Do you have any prints that show the Hyd circuit at all you can post? If they show any detail as to which contactor is the Hyd, then see if it energizes by observing if the armature pulls in, if it does not, then the coil energizing circuit has to be traced.
Al.