[WOLOG]

Has anyone heard anything about the Sl-30's being redesigned? It seems Haas is not saying much about this.

[Haas_Apps]

The SL-30 is not being re-designed. Haas does have new models in the works that could be confused with a re-design.

[WOLOG]

Haas Apps,

I probably should not go into detail considering this may be sensitive to Haas operations and ongoing development of the lathe line. If you are willing, I would discuss this through PM's.

[SeymourDumore]

I beg you, make one of these "new models" a gang tool!!!
A Real gang tool with lotsa' X travel to get 8 tools around the collet!!!
An SL10 size with more X would be GREAT!!!
I beg you, pleeeese!!!

No need to reply, just Do It!!!

[AMCTony]

If you make it, they will buy!

[Donkey Hotey]

I beg you, make one of these "new models" a gang tool!!!
A Real gang tool with lotsa' X travel to get 8 tools around the collet!!!
An SL10 size with more X would be GREAT!!!

I'm curious as to why you'd want such a machine? Still learnin' around here.

Is it the saved cost of a tool turret? Or speed without having to change tools? Or repeatability?

[SeymourDumore]

Donkey

If you mean the difference between a turret and a gang style machine, then the most simple answer is: SPEED!!
If you take away all your motions involved with moving the turret away, changing the tool, moving back, ramp the spindle up, down etc etc etc...
Put it this way. I'm not one to play it safe with lathe programs. Many toolchages occur no more than .25" away from the part, ramp on and offs are combined with the toolchage moves etc. Even in these kind of conditions, identical part program optimized for the MiniLathe run minimum 20% faster cycletimes than the SL10.
Tool to tool distances are 2", going from center drill to drill means rapid from the R-plane of the spotter to the R-plane of the drill. Quite literally, you can go from the spotter dwelling at the bottom of the hole to the drill contacting the part in one second.
Go from finishing the OD of the part to cutoff tool at X and Z clearance in 1 second.
The last move in the roughing operation is actually the X/Z clearance move of the finishing operation.
Etc etc etc.

For the right job, the gangbusters are the perfect alternative to a full blown screwmachine.

[Geof]

I beg you, make one of these "new models" a gang tool!!!
A Real gang tool with lotsa' X travel to get 8 tools around the collet!!!
An SL10 size with more X would be GREAT!!!
I beg you, pleeeese!!!

No need to reply, just Do It!!!

They had one a few years ago called the Mini Lathe. Smaller than SL10 with a 5C collet. It was discontinued because there was not enough demand I was told when I considered ordering one.

Gang tooling certainly does increase speed but it is sometimes difficult to get enough tools without things fouling. I find the best compromise is to gang tools on the turret when possible to reduce tool changes and once a program is proved out tweak all my clearances for tool changes. You only need 0.1" clearance between things for a tool change and don't need to retract several inches and the time saving does add up even with 1000ipm rapids. On a TL with snail like rapids it saves a lot of time.

[SeymourDumore]

Oh, my friend Geof.
I do own a MiniLathe, and for the most part LOVING IT!!!
About the can't get around thing... HAAS has designed this thing Brilliantly in my opinion. The table is not straight all the way, rather half of it is made at a 45deg, so OD tools can be ganged up with just over 1" stepovers.
In addition the 5C collet nose is long and skinny, so the collision issues are greatly reduced.
Believe me, there is no way in hell any other machine with only 12" of X-travel can match this thing in versatility. Hardinge is nice and robust, but could not put on the setup I currently have on mine as we speak.
Tool1: Top Notch TNR .062
Tool2: 1/2" laydown threading
Tool3: WNMG 432 (1" shank)
Tool4: VNMG 331 (1" shank)
Tool5: Micro100 boring bar - (finish)
Tool6: Circle 3/8 boring bar - (rough)
Tool7: 7/16 drill
Tool8: Internal threading - 3/8 shank

The part is 7/8 dia, hangs out 1.800, the OD work goes as close as .02 from the collet nose, while the ID is bored 1" below, and the internal threading is .5 below the nose.

Not without special tooling would you be able to do that on most gang lathes.
Daewoo ( or Kia perhaps ) makes an 18" X-travel machine, but most are only 12, which leaves absolutely no room for proper tooling.
Also, if you have the ability to use 1" toolholders, you have access to just about anything and everything out there. Selection for 3/4 and 1/2" holders are very very limited or pricey from the specialty suppliers.

As for why they've stopped it? I don't think it was that there is no market for the Mini, rather it wasn't given a chance to show it's colors. With a little more time and a proper marketing push, I do believe it could hold it's own with the best of them.
The only thing would need to be changed is to undo the Engineering Disaster of a bed design it has to make it more rigid. It is on a solid, heavy casting, has a 7.5HP/6000RPM spindle, air OR hydraulic collet closer, A2-5 spindle nose, ample coolant tank, chip auger... the works.
I even thought of a way to fix the rigidity issue ( stupid stupid stupid design )so there is very little need to be done to bring it back.

[Haas_Apps]

I beg you, make one of these "new models" a gang tool!!!
A Real gang tool with lotsa' X travel to get 8 tools around the collet!!!
An SL10 size with more X would be GREAT!!!
I beg you, pleeeese!!!

No need to reply, just Do It!!!

Have you taken a look at the GT-10 and GT-20. Both are standard gang tool machines.

[Geof]

Have you taken a look at the GT-10 and GT-20. Both are standard gang tool machines.

But both have very limited X travel.

[Donkey Hotey]

Hmmm...fascinating stuff guys. Thanks.

I figured that tool-to-tool time was the concern. Man, you've gotta' be banging out a lot of parts to care about a few seconds here and there. But now I see what you're comparing to (screw machines).

[SeymourDumore]

Haas Apps

If I could only figure out how to make a video and show the differences.
I was desperatly hoping that the GT-s will have ample X-travel to be used for gang operations.
Unfortunately with the standard collet the 8" travel is enough for exactly 2 tools. No more.

Donkey

Same thing about the video. You don't need to make thousands of parts to utilize 20 seconds of savings on a 5 tool job. In fact it can make or break the order.
Think of simple lousy bushing that's roughed on the OD, drilled, roughed on the ID, finished on OD, finished on ID and then cut-off.
That's 7 tools for a simple stupid little part.
I have one of these, Inco625, OD and ID is held to .0005 total for 400 parts/lot, which means semifinish pass on OD and ID. That's now an inventive 8 tool job for a simple lousy bushing.
I can do it on the Mini for $2.25, but would not even look at it for less than $4 on the SL10 or the Mori.
As for 2nd ops, I have completely stopped using my Hardinge chucker for that.
In less than 10 seconds you get a back face with radiused edge and ID chamfer.
Ohhhh, those gangsters do rule for many many things.

[Donkey Hotey]

Hmmm...you guys make very good points. Now I do really wonder why they aren't making such a machine. It's not like they don't have all of the components already living in other machines. It could be a parts-bin special, ready for the next Westec (in three months).

I bought my TL-1 for the simple reason that those 'stupid little bushing jobs' were keeping me from releasing my own products. I could make the main part on the mill in 10 minutes but it would take an hour on the manual lathe to make the mounting bushings, collars and other 'hardware' to go with it.

The TL-1 will get things started but it will need to be replaced with a dedicated machine in the future. I'm paying very close attention to specific machines for duties like this.

[SeymourDumore]

Found an image of the MiniLathe and it's slide:

http://news.thomasnet.com/images/large/011/11539.jpg

[Geof]

....The TL-1 will get things started but it will need to be replaced with a dedicated machine in the future. I'm paying very close attention to specific machines for duties like this.

See if you can find someone with a GT20. This has good rapids and not a bad spindle speed. You can get it with an eight position turret and a hydraulic chuck. Money for capability it is in some ways better value than the SL10 provided you do not want to do long parts. And, despite what Mr Dumore says, I think you could gang more than two tools at some turret locations for some applications.

[SeymourDumore]

Geof

Your collet nose is typically 3" diameter, or perhaps slightly larger. In order for your tool to properly clear the nose, you'd need the minimum of 1.5" of travel + 1/2 of your tool diameter.
Let's assume that X-home is the center of your first tool.
The second tool X0 must be about 1.75" away from that.
The third tool is another 1.75" from there.
Fourth ditto.
Now, this is assuming 1/4 max tool diameters.
So. 4 x 1.75 = 7".
The GT20 has 6" of X travel, so you're correct and 3 tools can be ganged up instead of 2.

[Geof]

Actually I am cheating a bit. If you are spotting, drilling, and tapping in something 5/8" diameter you can fit all the tools within about 2 inches of travel. And you can actually have a parting tool at the same station and do your part-off.

I did this on a TL-1 but did not take pictures.

Perhaps you have seen my post where I showed a drill at the same station as a threading tool? Drill the hole with the threading tool clear of the OD; bore the hole to the finished size (admittedly this required a tool change), then for the threading the drill enters the, now larger, hole off center so the threading tool can move in and do its work.

Imagine and ingenuity wins every time.

[SeymourDumore]

Yes Geof, I saw that post.
Of course I thought you were either extremely clever or just really really drunk.
Nonetheless, inventive thinking will get you out of some tight spots.
The thing is though, the next time you set up for the same job, you'd have to make triple sure all is clear before pushing the button.
Of course, you're stuck with your max depth at the collet nose.
On the Mini though, it is absolutely painless. Having that 12" travel is sweet and the offset toolholder positions are brilliant.
As far as machining behind the collet nose, well how'bout a .500 dia rod. 11" long. Drilled through 3/16 from both sides, counterbored and chamfered to .375 on both ends for 1" deep.

[Geof]

Yes Geof, I saw that post.
Of course I thought you were either extremely clever or just really really drunk....

Clever of course....the other will get you your walking papers in my place.

But let me think about that....was that done at the production plant or the prototype plant (at which I am the only one to work). The Barn if you have read some of my other Posts/Threads.

On a more serious note....yes, inventive thinking is THE solution. Don't get hide bound...the only "correct" way to do anything is the one the maximizes the money coming in and minimizes the money going out. Provided it does not jeopardize quality.