[stealthshooter]

Hey guys

I'm wanting to build a Z axis for my Torchmate 2x2. At first I was going to buy one of these from Velox. Desktop CNC Router Machines - CNC DIY Parts and CNC Router Kits which will cost $500 with the options I want. I started to wonder if I could build one for less? I was also wondering if this is the strongest design out there or would I be better building one with linear rail? Thoughts?

[jj_cncguy]

I bought a Velox slide, and then later built my own.

You can save some money building your own, plus you can upgrade to better bearings, more travel, etc.

The downside is that it is pretty time consuming to build your own.
There's a lot of exact measurements that need to be made. Working with aluminum is slow...

It's pretty nice to just bolt on the Velox slide and continue with your build (in contrast).. I don't regret rebuilding my own, but just want to warn you that it took me about 4-6 weekends to do.. Obviously I had other stuff going on too.

[stealthshooter]

Thanks for the info. I have plenty of time! How about linear rod vs. Linear rail?

[louieatienza]

I'm sure theoretically you'll have a stiffer axis using profile rails as opposed to unsupported rod, though the spans on the Z are relatively short. Ultimately it's only going to be as stiff as the rest of the machine. Doesn't the Torchmate use V bearings?

[stealthshooter]

No the Growth series doesn't use V bearings. They use flat bearings on all 4 sides of the rail.

Would this be sufficient to build a Z axis from?

[stealthshooter]

Which of these 2 designs would you guys say is more rigid?

1. 6" Z Axis Linear Slide Actuator CNC Router Plasma Laser | eBay

2. 4" Z Slide Axis Linear Actuator for CNC Router Stepper Motor with Lead Screw | eBay

[dodger889]

I would say the first one would be better for you since it is shallower that the second on. That would help on the flex of the gantry.

[amishx64]

I would counter argue, however, that the flex of the first will go up as it is used. The roller V-bearings will wear quickly due to a much smaller surface area.

Just my 2 cents. There are pros and cons to each.

[stealthshooter]

I would counter argue, however, that the flex of the first will go up as it is used. The roller V-bearings will wear quickly due to a much smaller surface area.

Just my 2 cents. There are pros and cons to each.

That's what I was thinking. I'm in no way an engineer but I have a pretty good grasp on mechanics. It just seems to me that the higher surface area of the rod would be better. Now tell me if I'm way off here but if I used supported Linear rod wouldn't I get the benefit of the higher surface area plus better rigidity?

I'm still thinking about using Profile rail. The only thing is the extra cost but if it's going to be a better setup it will be worth it. I just wish I could find someone that has built one using it and compared it to one build from linear rod.

I did however run onto these and they have really peaked my interest. What do you guys think of them?

THK SKR46 440mm Ball Screw LM Guide KR46 Linear Actuator SKR46B20 440L w Motor | eBay

Figured I could buy one and sell the servo that's on it or trade it for a stepper.

[dodger889]

First of all the torchmate 2x2 gantry will not be able to take to much off the gantry twist. It was never designed for that.
Second They are a plasma cutting table which most of the time has no real force applied to them.
You might get away with using a small trim type spindle (dermal tool) but not do any real heavy routing on that table.

Now if you want to add the router you would have to change the gantry to do such. Routermate by Torchmate CNC Cutting Systems.

[stealthshooter]

First of all the torchmate 2x2 gantry will not be able to take to much off the gantry twist. It was never designed for that.
Second They are a plasma cutting table which most of the time has no real force applied to them.
You might get away with using a small trim type spindle (dermal tool) but not do any real heavy routing on that table.

Now if you want to add the router you would have to change the gantry to do such. Routermate by Torchmate CNC Cutting Systems.

Do you own a 2x2? I use a porter cable 690 router motor. The growth series was designed to be a router along with a plasma it ha support bearings under the rails. I am upgrading to a 4' gantry which has 3 supporting rails for the cassette and has a 50# tool capacity. I have done some pretty heavy milling with my 2x2 and their z axis was the weak link. I'm wanting to remedy that issue with a better one. I am getting ready to build a rigid machine but I need this one to build it. I appreciate the info but I would appreciate if we just stick to building the best Z axis I can and not muddy the waters with what the other parts of my machine can and can not handle.

Thanks much!

[6061-t6]

Do you own a 2x2? I use a porter cable 690 router motor. The growth series was designed to be a router along with a plasma it ha support bearings under the rails. I am upgrading to a 4' gantry which has 3 supporting rails for the cassette and has a 50# tool capacity. I have done some pretty heavy milling with my 2x2 and their z axis was the weak link. I'm wanting to remedy that issue with a better one. I am getting ready to build a rigid machine but I need this one to build it. I appreciate the info but I would appreciate if we just stick to building the best Z axis I can and not muddy the waters with what the other parts of my machine can and can not handle.

Thanks much!

I have built a few Z axis in my day... I now own a cnc shop and wouldnt mind running a bunch of pieces to put together if you guys want to source the ballscrew/acme screws etc. I have a few cad files of z axis' ive already done with success that I can post up once I get back to my shop on monday if you like.

[stealthshooter]

I have built a few Z axis in my day... I now own a cnc shop and wouldnt mind running a bunch of pieces to put together if you guys want to source the ballscrew/acme screws etc. I have a few cad files of z axis' ive already done with success that I can post up once I get back to my shop on monday if you like.

I would LOVE to see what you have built and see what you could offer! I think a Z axis structure parts kit would be great!! It would allow for us to use whatever screw we would like!

[dodger889]

Do you own a 2x2? I am upgrading to a 4' gantry which has 3 supporting rails for the cassette. I have done some pretty heavy milling with my 2x2 and their z axis was the weak link. I'm wanting to remedy that issue with a better one. I am getting ready to build a rigid machine but I need this one to build it. I appreciate the info but I would appreciate if we just stick to building the best Z axis I can and not muddy the waters with what the other parts of my machine can and can not handle.

Thanks much!

One is related to the other You can have the greatest z axis ever built if the rest of the machine is not up to the the task. Then you are really blowing smoke up someones ****. Now I have look at what you are trying to do. You keep trying to push a machine that is not up to what you want then you are going to fail. Sorry the truth is hard to be heard. But I would want the tell you truth. Than tell you something that will not do what you are looking for.

[stealthshooter]

One is related to the other You can have the greatest z axis ever built if the rest of the machine is not up to the the task. Then you are really blowing smoke up someones ****. Now I have look at what you are trying to do. You keep trying to push a machine that is not up to what you want then you are going to fail. Sorry the truth is hard to be heard. But I would want the tell you truth. Than tell you something that will not do what you are looking for.

Again if you have never owned one you don't know what they are capable of. All the aluminum in these pics were milled with my lowly TM 2x2. Now please if you have info on how to help me build the best Z axis I can I appreciate it very much. If you want to tell me my machine won't do what I want it to do keep it to yourself because it already has and it's the only one I have at this time. Like I said earlier I NEED this one to help me build my next one.

[dodger889]

Again if you have never owned one you don't know what they are capable of. All the aluminum in these pics were milled with my lowly TM 2x2. Now please if you have info on how to help me build the best Z axis I can I appreciate it very much. If you want to tell me my machine won't do what I want it to do keep it to yourself because it already has and it's the only one I have at this time. Like I said earlier I NEED this one to help me build my next one.

Looking at your work your Z is not your problem. You really need to get a grasp of what you and your machine is capable of doing. I have seen smaller machines that have done better finishes than what you are getting.

Now if you are going to keep pushing the limits of your machine. Then it will not matter how great of a Z axis is you will not get the results that you want. Facts are facts just as physic is physic you can not beat either one of them. Now if you are wanting better physical performance then you need to look at whole system.

Ok ir's like this I can put a V8 engine in a vw bug but if I leave the trans that was in the VW before the engine swap. Will I get the performance out of the whole system? Might for a little while but over time or the first time you actually use the power of the engine something is going to break. You need to seek a balanced for Whole system not just a single part.

You really need to open your mind. Understand I'm not here trying to get you to stop your project. Just look at why or what you are spending your money and time on. I'm not questioning your motives or what you have done but you are not looking at what your machine is designed for.

I myself am designing a milling /plasma table knowing that the milling will be the most physical demanding part of the machine. Plasma normally does not apply to much physical pressures on the gantry and table. You are going the other way taking a plasma table going to a router/milling table. Somewhere in your thoughts you have not come to the limits of where you are going with this machine. Now thinking that just because you have bearings on both sides of the rail makes it one or the other?? Any good design would have that for either type of table.

Guy you have to design the whole to have a complete. Not just one component of the whole. A chain is only has strong as it's weakest link.Use what you have to build what you want . It might be better to think about doing it slower or shallower then going better.

[stealthshooter]

Looking at your work your Z is not your problem. You really need to get a grasp of what you and your machine is capable of doing. I have seen smaller machines that have done better finishes than what you are getting.

Now if you are going to keep pushing the limits of your machine. Then it will not matter how great of a Z axis is you will not get the results that you want. Facts are facts just as physic is physic you can not beat either one of them. Now if you are wanting better physical performance then you need to look at whole system.

Ok ir's like this I can put a V8 engine in a vw bug but if I leave the trans that was in the VW before the engine swap. Will I get the performance out of the whole system? Might for a little while but over time or the first time you actually use the power of the engine something is going to break. You need to seek a balanced for Whole system not just a single part.

You really need to open your mind. Understand I'm not here trying to get you to stop your project. Just look at why or what you are spending your money and time on. I'm not questioning your motives or what you have done but you are not looking at what your machine is designed for.

I myself am designing a milling /plasma table knowing that the milling will be the most physical demanding part of the machine. Plasma normally does not apply to much physical pressures on the gantry and table. You are going the other way taking a plasma table going to a router/milling table. Somewhere in your thoughts you have not come to the limits of where you are going with this machine. Now thinking that just because you have bearings on both sides of the rail makes it one or the other?? Any good design would have that for either type of table.

Guy you have to design the whole to have a complete. Not just one component of the whole. A chain is only has strong as it's weakest link.Use what you have to build what you want . It might be better to think about doing it slower or shallower then going better.

Considering those parts have not had a finish path run yet and they are the first things I have ever milled they look pretty DAMN good. The Z axis IS the problem it's the biggest problem my machine has. I have not run a finish path on the parts because I need a need a NEW Z AXIS. Now kindly leave my thread alone unless you are going to help me build THE BEST Z AXIS I can.

[stealthshooter]

Just for reference here is the Z axis I was using. There are no support bearings. It only has a teflon strip to keep it tight. The unit also uses fine thread screw not ball screw or acme thread. The unit is only capable of 15-18 ipm. It's a good item if your doing 2.5D cutting in wood. I am going to be doing 3d cuts in wood and aluminum. I will also be building the parts for my aluminum dedicated machine in my other thread in this section. I need the best unit I can get so I can erase that variable from my list. The way you talk makes it sound like I should just throw any old pos z axis on my machine because you wouldn't use it for routing anyway. I don't work that way. if I'm going to go through the trouble of building or changing something it's going to be the best I can do. Oh and FYI I'm in the process of building a 63"x61" table for my new 4' gantry. I'm going to be putting linear rails on this table along with a rack an pinion system to drive my new gantry and i'll be selling my 2' tm rails. Not only will I have a much better gantry but I will have a proper setup to route anything I want to so...............I need advice on how to build the BEST Z axis I can.

[6061-t6]

well its cute heh...tomorrow ill be at my shop to get some images of what ive done in the past. I dont mind to machine the pieces again if you need or you can do them, ill provide the cad files to you.

[dodger889]

Design the Z axis to be as close to the gantry as you can. This would include keep in mind the bearing distance on the side to side as wide as you can also. Alining the bearing on the carriage to be close to the same width. The centerline of the spindle should fall between the bearing on the gantry support rails for the least amount of twisting or flexing of the gantry.

With that said What I said earlier about the two that you had shown. That is the reason I said the first one.