[Nateg281]

Here's the deal. My X2 is almost tooled up. I just need the belt drive and a vise. I'm really torn between a large screwless vise like this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/4-X9-TOOL-MAKERS...4#ht_500wt_917

and the 3" milling vise that LMS sells. I'm most concerned about the work holding pressure that the larger screwless will be able to generate. The first project I intend to use it for is fly cutting and drilling several holes in a 10" x 4" piece of steel that's 1/2" thick. Please advise. I've looked at other threads on this and they didn't answer my questions. Thanks for any help you can provide!

[Arich0908]

I have a screwless vise and a knock off kurt vise. I use my screwless all the time with a set of these . Im very happy with it. But as my old man used to say there is a correct tool for every job I guess figure out what you need .
Hers a link for a DIY screwless vise and a set of hold downs plus allot more.

http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...ory=1963256911

http://www.projectsinmetal.com/free-...-x2-mini-mill/

[wildwestpat]

Suggest you leave the vise purchase untill you are further into machining. The flat plate can be held to the machine's table using simple clamps and tee bolts. In fact a universal clamping set should be obtained prior to any vise unless you are sure you only want to make small things. You also need some parallels to hold the work off the machine's table and you are set to go on the plate!

A good vice such as a Kurt style is worth its weight in gold to some and never used by others - it just depends what you are going to be machining.

Regards
- Pat

[photomankc]

I've been using a 4.25" screwless for about 6 months now and I do a good deal of facing with a 2.5" Glacern Facemill and I have not had any issues with keeping the stock in the vice. I make sure to bury it down in the jaws as deep as I can and I don't get aggressive until after I have it squared up completely. It seems to work fine. I also sometimes use some note card cut-outs to provide some extra grip.

Still the day I can yank that out and throw on a Glacern 4" or 5" vise will be a happy day. I hate the fiddle-fart nature of getting the shaft to engage in those notches under the vise floor. It serves but a real milling vise would be more convenient. Being able to clamp up to 4" has come in handy a couple times.

P.S. If you do get one, my preference would be one that has the grooves down the sides instead of just the holes. The grooves make it possible to use your hold down clamps to hold the vise to the table to start with. If you have just the holes you need to buy or make special clamps to hold the vise before you can use the vise.

[Nateg281]

For a first vise, which would you suggest? I have a clamping kit on the way and I have parallels already. I've taken a few machining classes at the local college so have a decent handle on what I'm doing. Can anyone verify that the Kurt clones that LMS sells are any good? I'd get the 3" if I buy one, but even that is a little small for my needs. I have projects where I would really need 4"+ jaw opening and clamping to the table just wouldn't work out as well. Keep the advise coming and thanks for the responses so far...

I've been using a 4.25" screwless for about 6 months now and I do a good deal of facing with a 2.5" Glacern Facemill and I have not had any issues with keeping the stock in the vice. I make sure to bury it down in the jaws as deep as I can and I don't get aggressive until after I have it squared up completely. It seems to work fine. I also sometimes use some note card cut-outs to provide some extra grip.

Still the day I can yank that out and throw on a Glacern 4" or 5" vise will be a happy day. I hate the fiddle-fart nature of getting the shaft to engage in those notches under the vise floor. It serves but a real milling vise would be more convenient. Being able to clamp up to 4" has come in handy a couple times

[Nateg281]

I thought about just clamping to the table, but that would cause issues with fly cutting no? Wouldn't the clamps interfere?

Suggest you leave the vise purchase untill you are further into machining. The flat plate can be held to the machine's table using simple clamps and tee bolts. In fact a universal clamping set should be obtained prior to any vise unless you are sure you only want to make small things. You also need some parallels to hold the work off the machine's table and you are set to go on the plate!

A good vice such as a Kurt style is worth its weight in gold to some and never used by others - it just depends what you are going to be machining.

Regards
- Pat

[photomankc]

I'd not go with a 3" personally. The max opening on that is 2.83" and is going to be limiting. I would not want anything with less than a 4" opening. My screwless vise came from Shars and has served pretty well. surfaces are all flat and parallel to well under 0.001" and that's a lot more than I can say for the cheap-o kurt-clone vise that I came across.

If you are going to get a milling vise then I wouldn't go bottom dollar there. You will be counting on it's accuracy in many operations so it will be a hassle to compensate for built-in errors and jaws that shift, and tilt around.

[MrWild]

While the max opening of the 3" seems small, the jaws are removable and can be placed on the back of the vise and the front of the movable jaw to give a much larger work holding capability. I bought a 4" Kurt clone and without a bolster plate, it is just to big for the mill. The fixed jaw and base is so large there is a real problem with getting the spindle over the work without the vise hitting the column. If you go with a 4" versus a 3" Kurt clone, expect to need to add an extension to the spindle to bring it out further. Really, a 3' Kurt clone is ideal for the work envelope.

[photomankc]

Yeah, sorry. I've got used to the size of the BF-20 and forget how big the 4" craptastic knock-off I have was on the X2. Honestly, I really liked my little screwless on the X2. I got a lot of work done with it, it's square as hell and it didn't cost a fortune. Just make sure that you choose a notch that is putting the majority of the force into clamping the part against the rear jaw. If you pull the movable jaw too far forward then you are putting most of the force into clamping the jaw to the ways instead of clamping the part.

[Arich0908]

May I make a suggestion if your going to buy the vise you posted a link to why not spend 20$ more and get this. The sellers tools are from Shars. He is top notch and the vise is a little bigger . I think in the long run youll be happy you did .

http://cgi.ebay.com/5-TOOLMAKER-GRIN...item3ca2903bf8

[cjdavis618]

Thanks for posting that link Arich0908, that fits the bill perfectly for my SX3 mill. Great info on the vises.

[SSN Vet]

I put this vise from Enco on my X3...

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...PARTPG=INLMK32

and am quite happy with it...

I wouldn't put anything bigger on an X3... and you may want to step down to a 4" for your X2

There's no comparison to the Kurt we have on our Bridgeport clone at work, but then again, I paid $80 last spring and got free shipping by getting my order total over $100 with other tooling.

Once my conversion is complete, the first project I'm cutting is a speed handle for it.

[TXFred]

I have one of the Chinese kurt vise clones. It's great, but as others have said, it's a bit large for the table. I have mine mounted along the X axis, and that works better.

The main advantage to that style is holding capacity. When you get it, your first project should be some back jaws for it. They screw into the tapped holes on each end of the vise.

With those, you can hold very large stock, albeit not as firmly as with the inside jaws.

My next vise will be one of those Shars vises. It has the advantage of being square on every side, so you can mount it on end, on edge, upside down, et cetera.

So what's the best vise? It depends on the scale of the work you're doing. If you never plan to exceed the holding capacity of the Shars vise, then that's the one to go with. If you want to mill items up to twice as big, get the Kurt clone.

Fred

[Nateg281]

I checked that one out. Wouldn't that be just a bit too BIG for the X2? I did some measuring and it would overhang the handle by about 4-5". Anyone use a vise this size on the X2? Be very interested in seeing how it's working out.

May I make a suggestion if your going to buy the vise you posted a link to why not spend 20$ more and get this. The sellers tools are from Shars. He is top notch and the vise is a little bigger . I think in the long run youll be happy you did .

http://cgi.ebay.com/5-TOOLMAKER-GRIN...item3ca2903bf8

[hoss2006]

Here's a pic of a 3 inch vise on my X2 a while back.



A 4 incher is pushing the limit.
The 4 inch precision you linked too would be a good fit but keep in mind
they don't have anywhere near the clamping pressure of the screw (kurt) types.
I'd be inclined to go with this 3 1/8 from Wholesale Tool, it has the movable jaws like the kurts and can hold up to 8 inches of stock.
http://www.wttool.com/product-exec/p...ise_WT_Import_
The 4 incher from Discount Machine Shop is actually a couple bucks cheaper
but it's over twice as heavy.
http://cgi.ebay.com/4-MILLING-MACHIN...item45eed1cf2c
Would be a good home on my G0704 but not the poor little X2.
Hoss

[eartaker]

when I FIRST started just to get things going and a handle for things I used a cheap drill press vise. I took the jaws off and milled them to be more accurate. I wish I had pics but I am in Afghanistan at the moment. This worked well for a lot of the things I was doing because I wasn't to concerned if things were .010" off.

I guess what I'm saying is your vise depends on how accurate you want your parts and what your budget is.

[Arich0908]

This is my X1 with extened table. I have a 3in vise I wish mine was little larger.
I dont have a X2 so your going to have to be the judge of that. I guess if its to large you will have a reason to buy the Long table extension from LMS.
Not saying this is the vise for you but look at this one on ebay. See the two mounting holes. I never thought of that . They all should be made like that.
But you probably should get a second opinion from some one who has a X2 just to make sure. It only opens 6in that means the widest work piece can only be 6in wide. Dosent seem big to me . Mine hangs off the end a little but I can reposition it to fit the long ways if needed. Ide like to have a few more inches. To each his own though.

http://cgi.ebay.com/VISE-GRINDING-TO...item53e16e136b

[Nateg281]

Hoss,

Isn't weight and mass your friend in a vise? Do you think that I would regret the screwless purchase due to the lack of clamping force? How much less force are we talking? Like 1/10 that of a Kurt clone?

Here's a pic of a 3 inch vise on my X2 a while back.



A 4 incher is pushing the limit.
The 4 inch precision you linked too would be a good fit but keep in mind
they don't have anywhere near the clamping pressure of the screw (kurt) types.
I'd be inclined to go with this 3 1/8 from Wholesale Tool, it has the movable jaws like the kurts and can hold up to 8 inches of stock.
http://www.wttool.com/product-exec/p...ise_WT_Import_
The 4 incher from Discount Machine Shop is actually a couple bucks cheaper
but it's over twice as heavy.
http://cgi.ebay.com/4-MILLING-MACHIN...item45eed1cf2c
Would be a good home on my G0704 but not the poor little X2.
Hoss

[WaveDude]

Thanks for posting that link Arich0908, that fits the bill perfectly for my SX3 mill. Great info on the vises.

$26 shipping is unjustified. Just be sure to look at the overall price.

I have a 3" screwless from Shars (it was like $42.00). I like it but shoulda got the 4". Ditto the slots vs. the holes in the side (Shars has the slots).

[Nateg281]

Have you ever had an issue with clamping force with your screwless vise? I'm trying to decide what my first vise purchase should be....

$26 shipping is unjustified. Just be sure to look at the overall price.

I have a 3" screwless from Shars (it was like $42.00). I like it but shoulda got the 4". Ditto the slots vs. the holes in the side (Shars has the slots).