[andyman]

So I've been doing a lot of searching and it seems like its pretty difficult to buy a CNC mill from a trust worthy US supplier. I want a turnkey solution because the lead times to retrofit an X3 is just too long and for the price just doesn't seem worth it (Promica is an 8 week turn around and they are in australia.)

What I want is a single point lube system, power draw bar, 4th axis, and dc brushless motor. Tormach seems ok but no drawbar for the pcnc 770.

I can't seem to find the KX3 anymore , nobody i selling them. Not even sure why. Littlemachine shop has the KX1 but thats way too small.

Syil seems like a good fit but I just don't trust it. I don't want to receive a defective 500lb piece of equipment.

So where the heck do you people buy your CNC mills from? As more time goes by I may just have to bite the bullet and get the Tormach but I really like the KX3 if its cheap enough.


So any suggestions?

[chipslinger69]

Just spend a little more and get the PCNC1100.

[Starleper1]

So where the heck do you people buy your CNC mills from? As more time goes by I may just have to bite the bullet and get the Tormach but I really like the KX3 if its cheap enough.

We don't buy, we build :banana:

[mwood3]

We don't buy, we build :banana:

Starleper1 is right, the majority of the threads you see here are home built machines, that being said...
I bet there are a few people that would be willing to build you a CNC machine on here....but then we get into the "trust factor" as Im sure they will want you to at least cover parts and material up front. It would be a nice service for those not able or not willing to build. if someone was willing to step up to the plate and gain some reputation.

[andyman]

I've got no problems building my own machine. But the issue is you don't get the features of a machine that was designed from the ground up. For example a built in powered draw bar (or one that was designed for the system), a lubrication system, etc etc.

I could source all these seperately and put it together. Probably save a small amount of money, but I'll end up paying for it in shipping.

So with that said, lets say for the sake of argument that I want to buy my solution. Who the heck can I go to in the USA to build me a quality system?

I am currently in contact with Syil in Cananda (got the initial quote). Still awaiting feedback for the regarding the power drawbar.

If someone has something similiar to what Syil canada is selling (X4) I am all ears!

[hoss2006]

These comparison charts are a little dated but you can still get a Smithy 622 (KX3)

http://novakon.net/145%20COMP%203.pdf

http://www.novakon.net/NM-200%20Seri...on%20Chart.pdf

Hoss

[TXFred]

I'll put in my vote for Tormach.

All of these machines are going to be Chinese made, which means that there will be some potential for failure. No one brand is immune to this.

You would do well to choose a company that you trust to be there when something breaks or goes wrong.

I chose Tormach because of their customer service reputation. And sure enough, my new 1100 had a few issues. A bad wall wart for the power drawbar (hard to diagnose), a broken fitting on the lube system, and Z axis noise all cropped up early on. Tormach's engineers were easy to reach, knowledgeable, and very helpful. Replacement parts shipped out the same day every time.

This evening I encountered a new issue with losing steps during surfacing operations. I left a message with them after hours, and I fully expect to get a call from them tomorrow morning.

For me, reliable support after the sale is worth a few thousand dollars added to the cost of the machine. I'd hate to have a purchase of this magnitude be reduced to uselessness because I could not get adequate support after the sale.

That's my two cents.

Frederic

[TXFred]

There's one other option, which is Dave deCaussin's machines. He builds them himself, and as this video shows, this is a formidable machine.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISzkthutKnA&]Scratch Built mini version of Fadal's VMC 15 - YouTube[/ame]

[andyman]

Ok after more research...

Tormach looks like a clear leader. They use belt and pullys so no DC brushless motor controller issues. Seems like they are a reputable company. But the flip side is more $$$$. I just need to calculate how much more before i pull any triggers.


Just read some scary reviews of customer service experiences of Novakon. Seems like they have the same issues as Syil. Although Syil Canada upgraded the spindle on their units..

Did a little more research on the X3 conversions. Looks like no easy way to oil and lube those things. And no covers for the Z ways.. Kind of a bummer. Considering the retrokit + mill almost equals a tormach.. Ok maybe a few thousand cheaper. Just gotta figure out if that few thousand is worth loosing some features.

[Fastest1]

What Fred forgot to say was that Dave was one of the owners of Fadal.

There's one other option, which is Dave deCaussin's machines. He builds them himself, and as this video shows, this is a formidable machine.

Scratch Built mini version of Fadal's VMC 15 - YouTube

[Fastest1]

What Fred forgot to say was that Dave was one of the owners of Fadal.

There's one other option, which is Dave deCaussin's machines. He builds them himself, and as this video shows, this is a formidable machine.

Scratch Built mini version of Fadal's VMC 15 - YouTube

[philbur]

I'm not sure a video on youtube constitutes a viable option. Maybe at some future date - maybe!

Phil

There's one other option, which is Dave deCaussin's machines. He builds them himself, and as this video shows, this is a formidable machine.

Scratch Built mini version of Fadal's VMC 15 - YouTube

[pete from TN]

After seeing what he has done there and what he has made in the past coupled with the control he is using and how he built that thing, if I were to spend anywhere near what the Tormach costs on a small CNC mill that machine from Dave would be at the top of my list. It uses a quality control unit that has a proven track record, it has Fadal lineage which trumps ANY chinese machine in my view and it just plain kicks butt in the videos. I would LOVE to have a machine like that. Peace

Pete

[andyman]

So the question remains. How does one purchase from Dave? Is there a price sheet? Why is it so difficult to buy a machine (with the exception of Tormach).

I'm surprised more vendors aren't jumping into this thread. Seems like the resellers need to do more then just throw up an ad. How about some sales people?

[pete from TN]

Is a retired former part owner of Fadal machine corp. He makes these machines out of his garage in California I think. He is a nice fellow and has some videos on youtube of the machine in action. I have contacted him about the machines before and he responded to my questions on the youtube ad. You can contact him Via youtube in the ads or I think he has a website link in the video. This is not a production machine however and he makes them when he feels like it I guess but it sure is a hell of a machine with a real toolchanger and runs off PC based systems as do most of these smaller machines. It is full enclosed, comes Flood coolant ready and is very powerful. The video speaks for itself. It is made in USA and was designed and built by one of the greats in Machine tools..... That is all I can tell you about it other than the fact that he has sold at leas one of them before. Peace

Pete

[hoss2006]

I'm surprised more vendors aren't jumping into this thread. Seems like the resellers need to do more then just throw up an ad. How about some sales people?

Because it's not allowed. This is the benchtop forum and as has been noted, the majority of us build our machines.
If you want to talk to sales people then contact the businesses.
Several like Tormach have their own forum here but you're still not going to get sales pitches unless it's from one of the end users.
I gave you the pdf's that list the major sellers but only a couple have the things you want like the PDB and oiling system.
Your choices are very narrow for what you want for the money.
Hoss

[TXFred]

I gave you the pdf's that list the major sellers but only a couple have the things you want like the PDB and oiling system.

Also remember that machines with linear rails don't need oiling systems in the same way that something like a Tormach does. Even some of the big production machines just have zerk fittings that need attention once every month.

Frederic

[andyman]

I am truly beginning to understand why all you guys build your own machines. Less headaches and cheaper.

You all been very helpful in this thread.

I think I am leaning toward the Grizzly G0720R (basically the X4) with FlashCut CNC retrofit kit. Gonna use nema 34 steppers (was gonna go servo's , but dang they double the price). So with money saved from servos gonna get me more tooling.. Then possibly a 3d scanner from next engine.


Thanks everybody for your help. It is an educational process. Maybe one day soon I'll have my own build thread here!

[LazyMan]

I am truly beginning to understand why all you guys build your own machines. Less headaches and cheaper.

Take a look at my G0463 CNC conversion problems. http://www.cnczone.com/forums/x3_sx3..._backlash.html

I have seen some people achieve great results with their conversions but I have certainly not. I have no experience with Tormach but they seem like pretty much the only company you can count on for smaller mills. I can imagine the feeling of having a 1000lbs+ unusable machine costing several thousand dollars sitting in my garage and I certainly do not want to feel that feeling.

[philbur]

You're not listening.

Tormach, Tormach, Tormach.

Phil

Who the heck can I go to in the USA to build me a quality system?