[Ed3XP]

So first off, let me give you a background on what I am using now and my history with CNC. I started about a year ago when I picked a small home made CNC router with a computer and software (Mach3) on craigslist for $1,000. It was a small (12"x24") machine, but did what I needed and was a great learning toold as it was all setup and ready to go. I learned a lot with CNC and Mach 3 and even just how a cnc router works, pretty simple stuff. I knew that I was going to need to upgrade eventually and even considering building my own at home after seeing everything you guys have built and considering I had a working machine that could help with the parts.

Well yesterday I stumbled across an WartHog CNC Router (24"x48") on craigslist with the power supply, control boards, bits and other nick knacks for $1400.00. This was a perfect size for my garage and wouldn't take up to much room, and give me the ability to cut much bigger items. So i picked it up. Now here are my questions I have.

I love Mach3. Its a great piece of software and its what I am familiar with. I slightly understand after some research on here how it works and how it processes with software and not hardware ext. What I want to have now is my new Warthog router running off my current computer with Mach 3. Then I will be selling my other router. I havent gotten a chance to just plug this into my computer to see if itll just start working, but I doubt it will. So i am posting pictures of all my equipment to see what the best course of action might be. Should I use my gecko G540 to control the steppers on the Warthog? Ot will Mach 3 control my ahha! controller? Id perfer to use the ahha so I can sell my old router with the G540 as a package. Should I even use Mach 3?? The Warthog uses a Large 37 (I think) pin cable and not a normal parallel 25 pin output. Now I did also receive a PCI7200 Card with the larger parallel cable output. Will Mach 3 recognize that or should I rewire a normal 25 Pin? I also got that converter board you can see in the pictures that takes the 37 pin to a 25 pin.

So the question in a nutshell, what is the best combination of equipment to make my Warthog router run off mach3 (if its even possible) while still giving me a good package to sell my smaller router (which if anyone is interested in it, send me a PM).

Here is my current router.



Here is the new Warthog




Some of the extra equipment. Like the Ah Ha!




PC7200 and converter board




And the Steppers on the Warthog

[awerby]

You're going to have an easier time selling your router if it's a complete package that works. It sounds like the G-540 and Mach3 run it right now, so that's what you should sell it with, otherwise you're either going to have to do a lot of work retrofitting the AhHa control to run it, or sell it as a non-working "mechanic's special".

I doubt the G-540 will run those 34-frame steppers on your Warthog very well; it was designed to run 23-frame motors. Try the Ah-Ha system and see if it works - you might need a DOS computer to run it, though. Ah-Ha was a popular retrofit controller 10 years ago or so; I don't think they made the transition to Windows, but went out of business instead. There's a Yahoo group where people talk about them:

ahha_cnc : Ah-ha! CNC Users Group, Ahha, Artisan

And you might try asking about them here as well - maybe someone's figured out how to run that controller with Mach3. If you really hate Ah-ha and DOS, the easiest thing might be to sell off the Ah-ha control separately (who knows, someone might need it for parts) and build a new controller based on Gecko 203V drivers, which are higher-powered than the ones in the G-540 (80v vs 50v) and would do a better job driving your motors. You could then use Windows (and Mach3) to control it.

Andrew Werby
ComputerSculpture.com — Home Page for Discount Hardware & Software

[ger21]

If you can figure out how to wire those motors to the G540, I'd try it and see. I found this pinout list on the Mach3 FTP site:

CNCIF-L 37-pin Ah-ha! Bus Pin-out -
Pins 1-17 GROUND System Ground
Pins 18,19 Future Use Don't connect to these wires.
Pin 20 !X Step Output To stepper motor driver cards.
Pin 21 X Direction Output To stepper motor driver cards.
Pin 22 !Y Step Output To stepper motor driver cards.
Pin 23 Y Direction Output To stepper motor driver cards.
Pin 24 !Z Step Output To stepper motor driver cards.
PIn 25 Z Direction Output To stepper motor driver cards.
Pin 26 !W Step Output To stepper motor driver cards.
Pin 27 W Direction Output To stepper motor driver cards.
Pin 28 !Enable1 Output Enables Axis 1 SD6/12 Driver
Pin 29 !Enable2 Output Enables Axis 2 SD6/12 Driver
Pin 30 !Enable3 Output Enables Axis 3 SD6/12 Driver
Pin 31 !Enable4 Output Enables Axis 4 SD6/12 Driver
Pin 32 !M0 Output Tells SD6/SD12 drivers to output 2nd
exception set
Pin 33 !ExceptionA Input
Pin 34 !ExceptionB Input
Pin 35 !ExceptionC Input
Pin 36 !ExceptionD Input

CNCIF-L 37-pin Parallel Port Emulation Pin-out -

Pins 1-17 GROUND System Ground
Pins 18,19 Future Use Don't connect to these wires.
Pin 20 X Step Output To your stepper motor driver card.
Pin 21 X Direction Output To your stepper motor driver card.
Pin 22 Y Step Output To your stepper motor driver card.
Pin 23 Y Direction Output To your stepper motor driver card.
Pin 24 Z Step Output To your stepper motor driver card.
Pin 25 Z Direction Output To your stepper motor driver card.
Pin 26 W Step Output To your stepper motor driver card.
Pin 27 W Direction Output To your stepper motor driver cards.
Pin 28 Enable Output To your stepper motor driver cards, all axes.
Pin 29 Idle Output To your stepper motor driver cards, all axes.
Pin 30 Aux Out 0 Output To your M-Code device (coolant, clamp,
etc.)
Pin 31 Aux. In 0 Input From device or switch you want to sense.
Pin 32 W Home Input Pull this line LOW to indicate W Home
Pin 33 X Home Input Pull this line LOW to indicate X Home
Pin 34 Y Home Input Pull this line LOW to indicate Y Home
Pin 35 Z Home Input Pull this line LOW to indicate Z Home
Pin 36 Emergency Input Pull this line LOW to indicate Emergency,
overtravel, etc.

Auxiliary I/O Parallel Port Interface -
Please contact Ah-ha! Design Group at 612-331-7657 for more information.

To use that PCI card, you'll need to use the AhHa software. Are you sure it's a PCI, and not an ISA interface?

But I'm with Andrew. Sell your other machine with the G540, and use the money to update the new machine with new electronics.

[zool]

Selling a small CNC like yours without the computer/MACH3 and the controller is like selling a car without an engine or transmission.

Also, take a look at this for a controller: Dynomotion | Motion Control Boards

You've got the have some luck to find two machines like those on Craig's List Be that as it may, you eased into CNC perfectly and avoided a lot of wasted time and frustrations.

[Ed3XP]

Thanks for the tips so far, maybe i will sell the smaller machine with everything.... how much should i ask for something like that?

Also, I would prefer to use the AhHa with Mach3. I have been playing with it and config the pins. So far Mach3 won't move anything, but it will enable and disable the machine (you can hear the motors click and they won't budge). Will the AhHa work with Mach 3 you think?

[Ed3XP]

UPDATE!

I got Mach3 to control the Warthog through the Ah-Ha Box. Its working pretty good! Now, here is my new set of problems....

Out of my 3 Axis, only the Y was working. The X was jumpy and the Z did nothing but make the servo hum when i tried to move it.

In Mach3, All of the setting were the same for each axis, just as a test. At first I thought the X motor was bad as it almost felt like it had no torque. But I switched the X and Y on the Ah-Ha and the X moved flawlessly and the Y now seemed to have no torque. I also threw the Z axis on the Y plug, and sure enough it zipped up and down like normal.

So that makes me think that the X and Z control boards are bad? I haven't opened up the box to examine them, but is that what you think it could be? Can I replace them with any kind of control board? It be great if I can get this thing running with the Ah-Ha and sell the other machine with the G540.

[zool]

UPDATE!



So that makes me think that the X and Z control boards are bad? I haven't opened up the box to examine them, but is that what you think it could be? Can I replace them with any kind of control board?

I'd suggest its time to open the box and start using a multimeter or oscilloscope.

If you haven't the skills or aren't comfortable poking around, go find someone that is.

More good luck for you.

[Ed3XP]

I'd suggest its time to open the box and start using a multimeter or oscilloscope.

If you haven't the skills or aren't comfortable poking around, go find someone that is.

More good luck for you.

Ive got both of those... what exactly should I be looking for?

[zool]

Ive got both of those... what exactly should I be looking for?

Check the power at the cable that makes your motors work. That seems like a base-line.

Then gather data on the two cables that do not make motors work.

Read the manuals and find out what the motors expect and what it expects.

Read the ah Ha forum threads, most all of them. Condensed experience they are.

Just basic problem solving.

With your luck, you'll be done and have your machine in tip top shape before Monday. :cheers:

[Ed3XP]

Well, after playing with the inside of the Ah Ha and the driver boards, its clear that the X and Z axis boards do not work. I can unplug, and switch around cables and the only thing thatll work is the Y axis. All 3 cards are putting out the same amount of power.

So should i buy 3 of this Gecko 203V boards? is that my best bet?? Use the power that is inside of the Ah-Ha and the break out board. And just put the G203Vs inside? Is there any other options?

[zool]

Well, after playing with the inside of the Ah Ha and the driver boards, its clear that the X and Z axis boards do not work. I can unplug, and switch around cables and the only thing thatll work is the Y axis. All 3 cards are putting out the same amount of power.

So should i buy 3 of this Gecko 203V boards? is that my best bet?? Use the power that is inside of the Ah-Ha and the break out board. And just put the G203Vs inside? Is there any other options?

You say: "...its clear that the X and Z axis boards do not work."

Then you say: "All 3 cards are putting out the same amount of power."

Are "boards" the same as "cards"? If so, your first paragraph is very confusing.

Before anyone would answer any of your questions in the second paragraph, you would have to supply A LOT more information.

I am pressed for time tonight, but will try to put together a list tomorrow and get it to you tomorrow night.

[Ed3XP]

You say: "...its clear that the X and Z axis boards do not work."

Then you say: "All 3 cards are putting out the same amount of power."

Are "boards" the same as "cards"? If so, your first paragraph is very confusing.

Before anyone would answer any of your questions in the second paragraph, you would have to supply A LOT more information.

I am pressed for time tonight, but will try to put together a list tomorrow and get it to you tomorrow night.

All 3 of the driver boards are putting out the same voltage, they supply power to the steppers motors. But the X and Z driver boards do not move the motors. The Z stepper only hums and the X stepper makes the motor move, but very very jerky.

If I plug the X or Z motors into the Y driver board, they work just fine. So its my assumption that the X and Z driver boards are broken.

[zool]

All 3 of the driver boards are putting out the same voltage, they supply power to the steppers motors. But the X and Z driver boards do not move the motors. The Z stepper only hums and the X stepper makes the motor move, but very very jerky.

If I plug the X or Z motors into the Y driver board, they work just fine. So its my assumption that the X and Z driver boards are broken.

Have you done a continuity check on the cables between the boards and the stepper motors? Have you done a check of power in power out on the cables? {Shorts?}

[Ed3XP]

Have you done a continuity check on the cables between the boards and the stepper motors? Have you done a check of power in power out on the cables? {Shorts?}

the cables are all powered with no shorts and they have continuity. Remember that if I unplug the motor and plug it into the Y driver board, it will work perfectly. So cant be the cables running to the motor. I also rearranged the power cables inside of the Ah-ha connecting to the driver boards, and also rearranged the cables coming from the 37pin breakout board. No matter what combination i use, only the Y axis driver board will work and the other do the exact same thing, jerky and not moving.

[zool]

do all the bits on the boards look identical?

any chubby capacitors?

[Ed3XP]

Yeah, all of the capacitors look normal, i dont see any thing wrong with these boards, thats why im confused....

[zool]

Can you find a electronics technician of some sort?

Maybe a audio/vidio repairman that might know circuit boards or be able to have his curiosity tweeked by a request for help like yours.

This has gotten to the point that I'd have to put my hands on it and tinker with it.

[Ed3XP]

Yeah, is it uncommon for these boards just to stop working? I dont want to be down my CNC machine for very long. Kind of at a cross road here. Do i just bite the bullet and buy new electronics?? That would give me this machine with new electronics for under 2,000... which i think is a good deal?

[zool]

I don't know about the quality of the boards, you can tell by looking at them.

It all depends on how much energy you want to put into finding out about them. It could be a $1.00 fix. Maybe the time spent would be worthwhile.

If you don't want to fuss and be absolutely guaranteed of dependability, then new parts. But then there is figuring the connections out and building the controller.

Either way you are going to have to put some time in.

If it were me, I'd try to fix first. But be doing some research on new stuff and what would need to be done to set it up.

Did you try the yahoo forums like Andrew Werby suggested in his post..message #2?

[Ed3XP]

Yeah, You have to request to be a member to see there forums, So i am pending approval. Be nice if they approve soon.