[FuriousGeorge]

I was thinking about purchasing a double station vice and mounting it sideways on my Tormach so that the jaws are parallel to the y-axis. It seems to me that I could quadruple my output using soft jaws and some of the configurations shown here: Orange Vise Company - Quick-Change CNC Machine Vises

I would have to make a fixture plate to actually mount the thing, but it seems like it would be very reasonable to do.

Has anyone tried this? Can anyone think of a reason it would NOT work? A 6"x20" seems like it would fit perfectly on the table mounted sideways and allow you to mill four 8"x 4" (maximum size) pieces in one run.

[WOTDesigns]

Are 3 seperate 5" vises not wide enough? A single dual station side ways seems useless to me since three vises fit side by side or 2x 6" vises which are more versatile than a single dual station.

I recently purchased a 2" D precision ground 18" L rod to speed up setting up my vises. Makes life a lot easier.

I modeled a fixture I will share when complete that will mount 6x 3" screwless vises. No soft jaws, so it wouldn't work for your application, but it will let me load 48 parts at a time.

Brian
WOT Designs

[rlockwood]

I was thinking about purchasing a double station vice and mounting it sideways on my Tormach so that the jaws are parallel to the y-axis. It seems to me that I could quadruple my output using soft jaws and some of the configurations shown here: Orange Vise Company - Quick-Change CNC Machine Vises

I would have to make a fixture plate to actually mount the thing, but it seems like it would be very reasonable to do.

Has anyone tried this? Can anyone think of a reason it would NOT work? A 6"x20" seems like it would fit perfectly on the table mounted sideways and allow you to mill four 8"x 4" (maximum size) pieces in one run.

Nothing against Orange's, they appear VERY nice.. but I tend to agree with WOT. It's going to take up too much table real estate in this case, for not much gain. Maybe look at the 1030 series quicklok from Chick?

Though, I suppose dollar for dollar you might still be ahead with the orange.. but you could probably fit 4-5 of the chicks on there.

[FuriousGeorge]

Brian, 3 5" vices would work, but the double station allows me to have two jaws and two fixture plates with only one object to tram/ align. I agree tho, it is a weird set up.

I've never heard of Chic vices before, but that seems like a WAY better solution. I was looking for a double station that I could mount normally, but I couldn't find anything. This is why I love the forum, there is so much knowledge here. Plus, with those vices I could brag about having 4 chicks at the same time!

[rlockwood]

Brian, 3 5" vices would work, but the double station allows me to have two jaws and two fixture plates with only one object to tram/ align. I agree tho, it is a weird set up.

I've never heard of Chic vices before, but that seems like a WAY better solution. I was looking for a double station that I could mount normally, but I couldn't find anything. This is why I love the forum, there is so much knowledge here. Plus, with those vices I could brag about having 4 chicks at the same time!

There are other similar vises on the market, too.

The newer Chicks are somewhat difficult (requires a lollipop mill and either alot of 3d undercutting or a custom dovetail mill) to make your own jaws for, and Chick is notorious for high replacement part costs. They're also typically entirely aluminum, which has both pro's and con's. All said and done, though, I still think they're among the best vises on the market.

I know Jergens makes some, and some other companies too, but I have no experience with them. Nor do I have any with the Orange, but it shares a lot of the positives from the Chick, whilr eliminating the drawbacks

[Steve Seebold]

There are other similar vises on the market, too.

The newer Chicks are somewhat difficult (requires a lollipop mill and either alot of 3d undercutting or a custom dovetail mill) to make your own jaws for, and Chick is notorious for high replacement part costs. They're also typically entirely aluminum, which has both pro's and con's. All said and done, though, I still think they're among the best vises on the market.

I know Jergens makes some, and some other companies too, but I have no experience with them. Nor do I have any with the Orange, but it shares a lot of the positives from the Chick, whilr eliminating the drawbacks

Another suggestion would be to have 2 5 inch vises on your machine and make 4 fixture plates to hold your parts. With 4 fixture plates, you have 2 plates in the machine running parts and 2 plates out on the bench being loaded. When your machine reaches M30, you open the vises, remove the fixture plates containing your parts, blow out the jaws, load the second set of fixture plates and hit cycle start. The whole change over takes less than 45 seconds.

I do this kind of stuff all the time and it works really well for me.

[Peter Neill]

Brian, 3 5" vices would work, but the double station allows me to have two jaws and two fixture plates with only one object to tram/ align. I agree tho, it is a weird set up.

Tramming multiple Vices is not such a big deal - here's how to tram 5 in a row in 5 minutes!

Setting five vises in line - YouTube

[FuriousGeorge]

There are other similar vises on the market, too.

The newer Chicks are somewhat difficult (requires a lollipop mill and either alot of 3d undercutting or a custom dovetail mill) to make your own jaws for, and Chick is notorious for high replacement part costs. They're also typically entirely aluminum, which has both pro's and con's. All said and done, though, I still think they're among the best vises on the market.

I know Jergens makes some, and some other companies too, but I have no experience with them. Nor do I have any with the Orange, but it shares a lot of the positives from the Chick, whilr eliminating the drawbacks

Do you have a drawing of the Chick vice jaws? Jergins has great CAD models on their website and the jaws seem easy to make with a dovetail and a corner-rounding cutter. I've attached a drawing, are the Chick jaws similar?

Attachment 209834

Have you been able to notice any difference in finish/vibrations using a small aluminum vice instead of a big cast iron one? The all aluminum body makes me a little uneasy, but I don't have any experience with something OTHER than a big heavy milling vice, so my fear could be totally unfounded.

[WOTDesigns]

Tramming multiple Vices is not such a big deal - here's how to tram 5 in a row in 5 minutes!

Setting five vises in line - YouTube

That video highlights the exact issues with tramming that way. Watch it again and look at the DTI on the three vises on the left (the only time you can see needle). None of them are in the same X or Y plane. One is 5 thou off in Y and the other two are not square. Perhaps he continues tapping them after tightening the other bolt but that's a #&@$* to try and keep them aligned.

I'm not sure what the rules are in speed vise setting competitions but that's unacceptable for my needs. Not being square puts holes at the end visibly off center even 0.005 is obviously bad on many of my parts.

Aligning one, setting one next to it, clamp both on the same ground bar (fixed one first), snug the loose vise, remove bar, test and tighten. Repeat. Takes a little more time (for me) but actually gets all three of mine within 0.001 of square and aligned to each other in Y.

The Y isn't critical if using G55 G56 but they must be square and I often work on brake calipers that are 12" long. If my two vises aren't both square and in the same Y the part will need shimming to be square or soft jaws cut. I realize their application in the video may be roughing one side, leaving a carriers, removing the carrier as second opp so it doesn't matter, but in practical application that system of squaring, I mean actually squaring 3+ vises takes 10-40 minutes in my experience.

Brian
WOT Designs

[rlockwood]

Do you have a drawing of the Chick vice jaws? Jergins has great CAD models on their website and the jaws seem easy to make with a dovetail and a corner-rounding cutter. I've attached a drawing, are the Chick jaws similar?

Attachment 209834

Have you been able to notice any difference in finish/vibrations using a small aluminum vice instead of a big cast iron one? The all aluminum body makes me a little uneasy, but I don't have any experience with something OTHER than a big heavy milling vice, so my fear could be totally unfounded.

They're similar in that they both use a dovetail, but different in that chick left took clearances closer and radii tighter. They also used an odd angled dovetail, something like 47.5*. Its not impossible, or even particularly difficult.. But without access to a CMM, I probably wouldve spend a days work playing with it. I have a model, but at work, so perhaps on monday.

I've never had any issues with finish/vibrations from an aluminum vise, including their tombstone style ones, mounted only on one side in a horizontal. I seriously doubt it would ever be an issue on a tormach.

[rlockwood]

That video highlights the exact issues with tramming that way. Watch it again and look at the DTI on the three vises on the left (the only time you can see needle). None of them are in the same X or Y plane. One is 5 thou off in Y and the other two are not square. Perhaps he continues tapping them after tightening the other bolt but that's a #&@$* to try and keep them aligned.

I'm not sure what the rules are in speed vise setting competitions but that's unacceptable for my needs. Not being square puts holes at the end visibly off center even 0.005 is obviously bad on many of my parts.

Aligning one, setting one next to it, clamp both on the same ground bar (fixed one first), snug the loose vise, remove bar, test and tighten. Repeat. Takes a little more time (for me) but actually gets all three of mine within 0.001 of square and aligned to each other in Y.

The Y isn't critical if using G55 G56 but they must be square and I often work on brake calipers that are 12" long. If my two vises aren't both square and in the same Y the part will need shimming to be square or soft jaws cut. I realize their application in the video may be roughing one side, leaving a carriers, removing the carrier as second opp so it doesn't matter, but in practical application that system of squaring, I mean actually squaring 3+ vises takes 10-40 minutes in my experience.

Brian
WOT Designs

Eh, I can't see a damn thing on his indicator, so I can't really comment on that. I do mine similar to how he does; it takes me about the same amount of time and they're within a few tenths of each other. I never set more than 3 in line, though.

Nothing wrong with using a bar, but I don't feel its particularly necessary or even much of a time saver. On the other hand, it took quite a few vises until I actually got quick with it, so maybe it would've saved some time along the way. At this point though, it just seems like more steps.

Square up the first vise, move to second vise. Zero close edge in line with first vise, tighten bolt and jog to other end. Align to zero with other edge, Tighten bolt. This will typically pull the previous edge out by a thou or so, so jog back, loosen original bolt and tap it back to zero. Tighten the bolt back up and jog back along to ensure its still zero.. proceed to next, rinse.. repeat. The second correction is really the ticket.

Also, things like rotating your indicator off when traveling between vises saves a ton of time as well. I used to let the indicator drop off, which would often either add error into the reading (the two vises would wind up off plane by a few thousandths), set the next vise off by an indicator rotation (off plane by .030 this time..) or worse, do both.. It also helps to use some sort of a referencing system to begin with, alot of people will pull all of the vises up against the t-bolts, which will get them within a few thou to start with.

Further, most every vise i've ever seen has slots designed to key them to the t-slots.. Depending on accuracy needs, definitely the quickest method.