[Kirk22]

I'm looking for a 3-in-1 for the same reasons as most others: space, price, etc. I think I settled on the shopmaster despite the problems that some of you guys are having.

I have a few questions if you guys would be so kind as to guide me a little.
Please note that I am a beginner with machining so some questions may be naive.

First there's the price:
A new shopmaster is currently about $4K whereas 3 years ago they were going for about $2K. Now, I know metal prices have risen significantly, but why the doubling of the price? Did they add enough new features to justify the increase? I don't believe other machines have doubled in price.

Space is at a premium for me. How feasible is it to have a 1200 pound CNC machine on wheels? I can make the stand strong enough for wheels and my shop floor is in good condition but slightly sloped. Is it imperative that the machine is placed in one spot and leveled?

CNC/DRO: CNC will be a top priority. I like the idea of servos although the stepper drive ethernet interface from gecko if pretty darn appealing. Is Gecko planning on making the same ethernet interface for servo drives?

DRO: If anything, I would probably make the Shumatech DRO kit. On a CNC'd machine is a seperate DRO readout useful? For example, If I'm manually cutting can the mach software read the scales and display the DRO info on the computer screen? Are separate scales necessary or can the servo motor encoder wheels handle that function? Can mach take advantage of separate scales to account for backlash/slop/etc?

Warranty: If I buy an $800+ option (DRO, ball screws, CNC) then there is a lifetime warranty. I plan to do my own CNC and/or DRO so that leaves me with the ballscrew option. I've seen other posts where I can get ball screws that are cheaper/better(?) so is it worth it to get the longer warranty? What would fail from a manufacturers defect in 5 years that wouldn't fail much sooner anyway? They don't seem very willing to replace known defects like the motor issue so I'm thinking that a lifetime warranty is just a good sales ploy with only a chance of a benefit. Any thoughts?

Thanks for any direction you guys can give.

Kirk

[norvil1]

do you want the truth??? you might not like it. i own a tri-power less than 3 weeks old. i can speak with some knowledge of the subject. for starters the full blown version is $9,987.00.

[PoppaBear10]

Kirk
Ok, here goes:

I'm looking for a 3-in-1 for the same reasons as most others: space, price, etc. I think I settled on the shopmaster despite the problems that some of you guys are having.

I have a few questions if you guys would be so kind as to guide me a little.
Please note that I am a beginner with machining so some questions may be naive.

First there's the price:
A new shopmaster is currently about $4K whereas 3 years ago they were going for about $2K. Now, I know metal prices have risen significantly, but why the doubling of the price? Did they add enough new features to justify the increase? I don't believe other machines have doubled in price.

>>>>No, the machine is not worth that amount for 2k it would be, but there are too many problems you have to fix.

Space is at a premium for me. How feasible is it to have a 1200 pound CNC machine on wheels? I can make the stand strong enough for wheels and my shop floor is in good condition but slightly sloped. Is it imperative that the machine is placed in one spot and leveled?

>>>Yes, you must NOT have your machine rolling around. PARK IT, LEVEL IT.

CNC/DRO: CNC will be a top priority. I like the idea of servos although the stepper drive ethernet interface from gecko if pretty darn appealing. Is Gecko planning on making the same ethernet interface for servo drives?

>>>>>If you are speaking of the G-Rex, it will drive steppers or servos.

DRO: If anything, I would probably make the Shumatech DRO kit. On a CNC'd machine is a seperate DRO readout useful? For example, If I'm manually cutting can the mach software read the scales and display the DRO info on the computer screen? Are separate scales necessary or can the servo motor encoder wheels handle that function? Can mach take advantage of separate scales to account for backlash/slop/etc?

>>>>>Scotts kit is good, but on a CNC machine you really don't need it.
Mach CAN read back off or quadrature scales. But you would need to add a 2cd Parrallel port that is bi-directional. You can have these scales read into DRO's that you drop on the screen. To read the encouder off the motor, you would have to install a switching relay, so when you switch to manul control, (leaving Mach on, but drop out your drives). then the DRO's can read your manual moves. You can account for backlash, following error to an extent, with seperate DRO's. You would have to program in a MacroPump and set what the error would be, before it would trigger a fault. You can do the things you are speaking of, but it would require a more advanced understanding of Mach, VB scripting and machine controls that you presently have especially if you are just starting out.

Warranty: If I buy an $800+ option (DRO, ball screws, CNC) then there is a lifetime warranty. I plan to do my own CNC and/or DRO so that leaves me with the ballscrew option. I've seen other posts where I can get ball screws that are cheaper/better(?) so is it worth it to get the longer warranty? What would fail from a manufacturers defect in 5 years that wouldn't fail much sooner anyway? They don't seem very willing to replace known defects like the motor issue so I'm thinking that a lifetime warranty is just a good sales ploy with only a chance of a benefit. Any thoughts?

>>>>>>>If you are new to machining, it would be better to just buy a premade and fitted ball screw set from John. Once you play with the machine a while, and get a good understanding of how things work. Then, make the decision to "Upgrade" to a higher accuracy screw. NOTE: Don't expect alot of accuracy from the shoptask with out alot of work/money/time on your part.
I can hold 5/10ths, within a 10" envolope. but, to get that, I had my ways/gibs/saddle professionally ground/scraped. Spent alot of time on making my own custom double ball nuts with adjustable preload. Ect.

>>>>>>>The Shoptask is a GREAT starter/HOBBIE machine, you can make your mistakes on it, and survive.

>>>>>>Remember also, you real cost will be your Tooling, accessories. To get a full blown, wiz-bang shoptask with CNC, DRO, some tools, etc. you are easly looking at 10-12k..............
Your other choices would be: a standard 14x40 lathe, and a IH style (or clone), of square columb mill.
In the long run, if you stay in machining. You will probably end up with the above lathe, and some type of BP1 or clone. If you look on Ebay, you could get the above lathe and mill with some tools for about the same price, and, you would have "commecial grade" machines that have great accuracy. Futher you could resell them easily if you don't like the hobbie. NOT so easy to sell a shoptask. I probaly have ONE of the most technologically advance CNC shoptask on the planet. (5 axis mill with ATC, 2 Axis lathe with ATC). I have an embarrasing amount of Time and money in it. Granted, it was a fantastic learning experience, and I still use my shoptask to try out new Machine CNC control projects on. But I could never get my money out of it to sell.

Scott

[bicycleboy]

Kirk,
I have been a Tri-Power owner since September 2006. I pre-ordered for the $2995 deal, no extras, and picked up the machine in Vegas to save $500 shipping and have a fun trip. I visited Shoptask in LV and read all I could find on the Internet before I purchased. I planned for 3 but got a 2 month late pickup date.

I have been reluctant to write about my experiences with the machine. This is partly because I'm new at some of this and may not know what I'm talking about, but mostly because I really like the machine and the support that John at Shoptask has given me. It is a lot easier to post problems and point out deficiencies than to talk about the satisfaction turning and milling parts myself has given me.

Back to your post:
Value: Nothing can beat it for capacity in one machine. However, I don't think backlash in the X and y axis can be much less than .010 without a lot of work. Table rotation is hard to keep below about .002. These problems are easy to work around when hand machining. Repeatability is good. I can turn parts to within +- .001 when making a .010 cut as long as I approach from the same direction. Milling is easy to within +-.001 as long as you take the backlash into consideration.

If you have space a separate mill and lathe would be cheaper and more accurate.

Wheels: It's not that easy to level 6 legs!

DRO: My first project after modifying many Shoptask parts! You must have a DRO. Most of my screw-ups so far are related to miscounting, bad math etc. Note the Z dial is not in .001 inch increments. I designed my own using US Digital disk encoders and $20 Atmel Butterfly microprocessor display board. Great project, I should post it. If your not an electronics nut, the shoptask DRO with lifte-time warranty looks like a great value.

CNC: I plan on CNCing the machine. As a hobby programmer the Gecko G-Rex looks intriguing. I though about using it to read the encoders until I get the CNC stuff figured out. I day-dream about software in the G-Rex nullifying the table backlash and rotation.

Ball Screws: If the dream above doesn't work out, then everything I've read on the web indicates ball screws are a must. The run-out on the acme screw near the thrust bearing on my Tri-Power is .015, axial wobble .002. The thrust bearing is a $5 cheapo. My understanding is the shoptask ball-screw is done similarly. I would avoid.

Conclusion: The Shoptask is the greatest purchase I ever made. But, I am a hobby nut and inventor. Half the fun has been fixing the machine and dreaming about improvements. The other half has been cutting metal!

[Kirk22]

Thanks for the replies. I would like to get seperate machines but at this point it's just not physically feasible for numerous reasons.

It's good to hear that the G-Rex is capable of running servos. That looks like it will be a nice unit.

Kirk

[pfarber]

I don't think the Shoptask is any worse that the other 3-in-1 mills out there.

I got mine with the DRO and lifetime warranty.. which I have had to use for a motor and a harness. I would not have gotten very far with the craptastic dials that are standard on teh unit.

ANY mill will quickly add up the $$$'s when going DRO or CNC. Its just not that cheap to bolt all that stuff on.

Learn what you can with the shoptask and upgrade to bigger and better machines as you can.

[bherr]

Kirk,
I purchased a shopmaster back last Feb. 06 and didn't get it until May. I'm not a machinist by trade so you can take my commemts as such. I had alot of problems with the machine, motors capacitors burning out, alot backlash, so bad in fact that I stopped using the CNC and only used the manual milling. couldn't do any repeat milling. John was very helpful, but never could get it straighten out. I have a good friend in Alaska, that has 30+ years milling and he purchased one and is retruning it. He stated that the quality was very poor and had broken several parts trying to mill. I did return mine and purchased a used Bridgeport and what a difference. Full CNC 3 axis with tooling for about $1500 more that I paid for the shopmaster. For hobby work I assume it is great, but if your planning on any production work, Id go with a better machine. Just my opinion.

BH

[norvil1]

herr how much did you lose in the deal? i am thinking of returning mine also.

[bherr]

They charged be back the total cost for shipping, which when I purchased was $399, but charges me back at $786. that was about the difference, except for some items like the MACHIII software ($150) because its lic. to me. and some books and some tools. All in all I can't complain, except for the shipping difference.

BH

[norvil1]

did you have to pay for return shipping also??

[bherr]

Yes, I paid the freight back to las vegas. What shopmaster does is they take the total amount you paid, then deduct for any parts not returned and they deduct their cost to ship the orignal unit to you. In my case they say they paid $786 to ship it to me, but only charged me $399. If you ship it back freight collect they will deduct the cost of shipping both ways.

Hope this explains it better.
Ben

[Kirk22]

(5 axis mill with ATC, 2 Axis lathe with ATC).

I looked in the gallery and your other posts and didn't see any photos of your ATCs. Would you mind posting some of your latest photos to your photo thread? I'm especially interested in the milling tool changer.

I designed my own using US Digital disk encoders and $20 Atmel Butterfly microprocessor display board. Great project, I should post it.

Yes you should! In it's current design, can it read the chinese linear quadrature scales? Sounds like a cheap way to get basic DRO.

I've been looking into building an angle readout for a tubing bender. I have a couple digisec absolute encoders but information on them is non-existant on the net.

[norvil1]

kirk22 well did you order a tri-power?

[Rainman229]

Wow I'm Floored. Has there quality really gotten that bad? I have an older Eldorado BridgeMill Shoptalk. And It's been very good to me. I was considering getting a tri-power but after seeing this thread I think I'll keep what I have.