[Baudros]

By posting this here I may get a little bias but here goes...

I am wanting to get into CNC, personal use and production work, but I am torn between a router for wood/solid surface and a plasma. I would like to buy a turnkey to start with because #1: I don't want to spend a year or two trying to build my machine and #2: I don't have much experience with CNC and don't want to really screw something up.

Since I want to get a turnkey this really leans me toward a router as designing and building a vacuum table seems well out of realm right now. A plasma table also seems much more forgiving to build.

I also like CandCNC's packages and have not found anything that satisfies me in a plasma package like Torchead's equipment.

Another thing leaning me toward router is that I know the owners and many workers of 2 cabinet shops in our area and may have a market doing CNC for them.

For a turnkey system(wood) I am really leaning toward an EZ-Router. (Trying to keep machine cost under $20,000, preferably closer to $15,000)

Just looking for others thoughts to help out a newbie who is really torn. Hopefully you guys give me some other things to think about to make the decision easier!

[blackhollowmfg]

So, what is it you really want to work with, wood or steel?

[Baudros]

I eventually plan on having both, I'm just torn on which to get to start with.

[LeeWay]

Its all about making decisions that you can work with.
You can build a machine that will do both.
You can buy machines that will do both.
Much like a Shop Smith, there is a lot of setup that would need to happen between the two uses. There would be an aggravating house keeping problem that would make swapping between the two a real chore.
It can be done, but there are many compromises.
I know you won't like the next suggestion, but it is what helped e the most.
Research this Forum. Look at the photo's. Research Vendors. Watch Video's. Ask for promotional info from Vendor's. Talk to some of your Buddies at the Shops and see if they are even receptive to piecing out work and what size and materials that work might be.
After some knowledge of what other guys are doing, you should be able to tell for yourself what will and won't suit you needs.

Yours is a fairly broad question with few details. Once you can nail down some of the details, more decisive help can be offered.

I built a small router. About 2' by 3' cut area. It is very rigidly built.
I am working on a plasma that will have about 4.5' x 9' cut area.
It's a lot less rugged than the router, but still fairly substantial as far as weight goes. I probably had about $3000 in my router and will have less than $4000 I think in my plasma.
What took by far the longest time was learning software.
The machines can go together pretty fast. My router took a month at night and the plasma is half done in a couple weeks.

[Mike@Torchmate]

You can check out our website, www.torchmate.com We have several customers using our table for both Plasma and Routing Applications. Feel free to call in and ask some questions as well, or email me on anything specific.

[millerrocks06]

Hello,

I just wanted to tell you that the best system to go with would be a dynatoch table wich can cut metal,wood,drill,weld,and a ton more. I own a dynatorch table and it is the best choice you will make in your life, It is a easy program to learn. Along with you can buy a prebuilt table or buld your own. I built my own and it rocks. I don't have the right stuff to weld or drill ro nothing but i cut a lot of metal on it and it is the best choice you will make. Also just so you know don't ever listen to Torchhead. Oh yeah here is the website for dynatorch- www.dynatorch.com

[massajamesb]

Hello,

I just wanted to tell you that the best system to go with would be a dynatoch table wich can cut metal,wood,drill,weld,and a ton more. I own a dynatorch table and it is the best choice you will make in your life, It is a easy program to learn. Along with you can buy a prebuilt table or buld your own. I built my own and it rocks. I don't have the right stuff to weld or drill ro nothing but i cut a lot of metal on it and it is the best choice you will make. Also just so you know don't ever listen to Torchhead. Oh yeah here is the website for dynatorch- www.dynatorch.com

Come on now, I can't think of one justifiable reason to downplay Tom (Torchhead) or his advice. That has nothing to do with the topic at hand.(nuts)

I think the idea of a dual purpose table is a good one, but you must ask your self if you can afford the downtime from switching from one tool to the next, and the cleanup of each material. As an idea, I would love a dual purpose table. As an application, I just don't know how easy it would really be.

I tried a bit of multipurpose work with my table, by putting in a air operated die grinder with a carbide bit, just to see what it would do. It held up to the punishment, did all the engraving and actually a little wood "routing" I wanted, but oh my gawd was it loud, and I am glad I clamped everything down good. I don't think I will ever do that again. It was just to big of a pain in the butt to change over, clean up, etc. Although it was just an experiment to begin with....

I am in the process of building my separate router table now, just so I don't ever have to do that switchover again.

[millman52]

Baudros,

I'd suggest you read everything you can find on the Zone. Table build logs for plasma as well as routers.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=251

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=48

here is a couple places to start. Your time will be well spent even if it takes you a couple weeks of spare time to read these posts. You'll read what problems other people have had as well as their success.

For any brand you can buy out of the box you'll find praise & discontent.

If money isn't an object just buy one without research. Maybe you'll get lucky, but just maybe you'll have to throw more time & money at it to get it right after you buy.

I decided to build my own because I wanted an extra tough frame & some other features you just can't buy in a packaged table.

Ultimately you are the only one that can decide what is best for YOU!!

[Baudros]

I really appreciate everybody's responses.

The reason I am leaning away from a turnkey system is because the majority run on a propriatary system. That is why I liked Ez-Router because they use Mach. I was really convinced about buying a Torchmate, and they are the ones that really got me addicted to the CNC bug again, but the more I looked at them there were little things I don't like. No knock on them because the same thing has happened with every other turnkey system I have looked at.

I think I just need to do some more research, machine & market, but right now I am really looking towards a router and then hopefully in a few years add a plasma system. I think the only thing that has turned me off to building my own router is how to make a vacuum table for the thing, everything else I think I could handle.
I have found a couple threads here and have been searching the net for the answer to this tho, so we will just have to see.

You can keep the responses coming tho, I love reading them and they have been helping a lot.

[LeeWay]

Research is the key. The Zone does hold most of the answer's and is an excellent resource and without it, I'd still be pumping out all my parts by hand. Thank you Zone. If you decide to build your own, wait until a little more research is done and knowledge is acquired. You may save some money by not buying the wrong parts. Not sure why Tom was dissed, but he is always willing to help and may save you money too later on. Mike and many of the Vendors here will bend over backwards to help.
The knowledge you gain by building even a very small bench to router would be beneficial to you in the long run.

Mach 3, SheetCam, MeshCam, CutViewer and TurboCad do everything I could ever ask for. All very reasonably priced. My router is powered by Xylotex which does a good job, but now I'm going with Gecko's for my mill and plasma.

These are just some of what I use. There are many different brands of each type of software and here at the Zone, you can find out what each does, get th skinny on them and decide for yourself what you would like.

I do think most of the bad input about store bought machines has to do with either support or the proprietary software and drives. Sometimes some alignment or damage, but this happens when you ship anything. I would imagine that there are many happy campers though. There are sometimes problems with everything ever made. This goes doubly if you build your own. The Zone will support you though. I don't think I have asked many questions that I didn't get an answer to. Just a couple years back, I didn't even know what CNC was. It is a slippery slope that will suck the money right out of your wallet on the way down, but if done right, you will land on cloud 9. I am still amazed just watching the router do it's thing.

[Baudros]

I'm looking to use Vectric's VCarve suite for the router and will most likely use sheetcam & Corel draw for plasma.

I definitely like Mach, especially the open source part is very appealing to me.

[LeeWay]

I used to use a very old version of Corel and am sorry that I didn't keep it up. Instead I switched to another graphics package. I didn't realize how useful Corel would have been. The Cad package has been difficult to learn. Still only know enough to get by, but getting by is what it's all about. I also learn something new in each of these programs often.
I just learned how to do nesting in SheetCam. Man! That is one useful tool there.

[millerrocks06]

Hello,

Just so you know. I should not take but maybe a tops of 30 minutes to change after you are done. i will be back.

[millerrocks06]

Research is the key. The Zone does hold most of the answer's and is an excellent resource and without it, I'd still be pumping out all my parts by hand. Thank you Zone. If you decide to build your own, wait until a little more research is done and knowledge is acquired. You may save some money by not buying the wrong parts. Not sure why Tom was dissed, but he is always willing to help and may save you money too later on. Mike and many of the Vendors here will bend over backwards to help.
The knowledge you gain by building even a very small bench to router would be beneficial to you in the long run.

Mach 3, SheetCam, MeshCam, CutViewer and TurboCad do everything I could ever ask for. All very reasonably priced. My router is powered by Xylotex which does a good job, but now I'm going with Gecko's for my mill and plasma.

These are just some of what I use. There are many different brands of each type of software and here at the Zone, you can find out what each does, get th skinny on them and decide for yourself what you would like.

I do think most of the bad input about store bought machines has to do with either support or the proprietary software and drives. Sometimes some alignment or damage, but this happens when you ship anything. I would imagine that there are many happy campers though. There are sometimes problems with everything ever made. This goes doubly if you build your own. The Zone will support you though. I don't think I have asked many questions that I didn't get an answer to. Just a couple years back, I didn't even know what CNC was. It is a slippery slope that will suck the money right out of your wallet on the way down, but if done right, you will land on cloud 9. I am still amazed just watching the router do it's thing.

If you use a mach computer the dynatorch software will work for it. Just so you know.

[Torchhead]

I used to use a very old version of Corel and am sorry that I didn't keep it up. Instead I switched to another graphics package. I didn't realize how useful Corel would have been. The Cad package has been difficult to learn. Still only know enough to get by, but getting by is what it's all about. I also learn something new in each of these programs often.
I just learned how to do nesting in SheetCam. Man! That is one useful tool there.

Pickup CorelDraw ver12 on the web for about 65 bucks (sometimes cheaper). Download our free demo of DXFTools from the website and join the CandCNCSupport Yahoo Group and get some of the free CDR plasma clipart in the Files/Artwork section. Export the art from Corel with our tool and you will get perfect import into SheetCAM. If you used to use CorelDraw it will fit like a comfortable set of old slippers.

Tom Caudle
www.sheetcam.com

[Torchhead]

If you use a mach computer the dynatorch software will work for it. Just so you know.

Not exactly. While you may be able to use a file exported as a DXF from the Dynatorch software in MACH, none of the hardware will work from anything but DYNATORCH's control software. Mach does not control motors over serial links or RS422 interfaces.

For those confused, MACH is a PC based software control package that uses either the parallel port(s) to provide I/O for running Step and Dir input motor controllers for Stepper or Servo controls like the Gecko, Rutex, CNCTeknix and others. The authors of MACH are working on other I/O options including the G100 and the NcPod devices. Both are still in development and not for the inexperienced or casual builder. That will change with time.

MACH currently has about 7000 avid users and supporters. It has tools (SDK) for third parties like myself to develop interface products. Plug-ins are DLL's written in C that will let you access the internal workings of the software. Our new hand controller for MACH is a product of that open interface.

It provides up to 6 axis of control and you can use it with Routers, Mills, Plasma Cutters, Flame cutters and lathes. The Torch Height hooks are built into the core software (through a collaboration between Art and myself several years ago) which allows interaction with the toolpath, since MACH maintains full control of the Z (and knows where it is in relation to the other axis).

The process of switching from Torch to Router and back in MACH is simply the process of loading a new profile when you start MACH. It can have different screens for each profile.

Demos of MACH and SheetCAM are there and the license for MACH is a one-time buy with free updates for life.

Tom Caudle
www.CandCNC.com

[Torchhead]

Hello,

.... Also just so you know don't ever listen to Torchhead.

Probably good advice. I spend hours a day trying to lure newbees over to the "Dark Side" of open systems. I don't really own a plasma unit or know anything about electronics, CNC or software.....I made all that up. Pretty convincing huh! All those hundreds of posts about plasma cutting....made up. All that stuff about steppers and servos......made up. Heck, I don't know a servo from a ServPro. It took a sharp guy like yourself to expose me.:withstupi

Have pity on me. I live a poor pathetic life, hopped up on green tea, and dreaming about trying to help people. Please let me pretend I have answers to questions. I can't even type very well. My dog Swizzle does most of the work and sometimes when I nod off I pay with a painful bite.

I used to have great fame and fortune but the Dot Com era took all that, so I have little left but my squalled, tortured life as a burned out Engineer.....[sobbing sounds inserted here]. If only I had stayed the course in the fast food business instead of wasting all those years in designing power electronics and working a gray little job in Information Technology.

What CAN I do to make this right? I know, how about this:

www.Dynatorch.com
www.Dynatorch.com
www.Dynatorch.com
www.wittlockeng.com
www.wittlockeng.com
www.wittlockeng.com
we-cim
we-cim
WEEEEEEEEEE CIMMMMMMMMM!!!

Okay, okay I'll go. I heard they need a new Shoe Man at the bowling alley.

Tom (broken dreams) Caudle
www.candcnc.com

[grinder_gary]

"Probably good advice" Quote

Tom, Glad I took your sound advice when I first became interested in CNC. I learned soo much from your advice over the last few years, as well as the other s who share their experiences.

Just keep up the great work and advice coming cause there is always people who really know and care what experienced people like yourself have to say.

Thanks

Gary