[bryzen]

Good morning and thank you for reading.

I am someone who wants to get started in machining/CNC/CAM at age 34 after wasting 15 years in the culinary "arts". I guess I had one of them middle-age realizations that I was not really made for such a profession where any clown is a chef nowadays. I just realized that all my life my true calling was staring at me in the form of all the technology and aerospace encyclopedias and magazines I read as a child and all the computers and furniture I have built from scratch. My calling is in precision manufacturing.

So I set out to take introductory CNC courses at a community college here in Chicago where I learned the basics on g codes, Mastercam and setup and operation. I feel that we did not spend nearly enough time on the machines to really feel comfortable, but that's another story. That was last summer, and my plan was to then find a place where I could start an apprenticeship or even an unpaid internship to no avail. I sent out many resumes, hand-delivered many more, checked with the manufacturing asociations, all for nothing.

I guess what I would like to ask is how can I break into the field? I feel that I have put a lot of effort into it and a year out I still have nothing. I am heartbroken and a bit desperate, so I'd like to ask if you have any advice as to what I am doing wrong.

Thank you for reading my rant and for any help you may be able to provide.

-Bryan.

[kling8]

what I've done in the past is going door to door as one move, where I have found luck is every couple of weeks call all the shops in your area, keep calling, the right place at the right time will happen just have to keep trying. You never know when job opening or company got a big job and need more help.

[rtm74]

well for experience in canada i have show the cnc to a lots of people and these are my advise that i can give you
first be open mind for people can tell you what they knows
second do same way that they sow you and then ask for what you feel more better
good luck hope you find something in this times

[toddfr]

I know what your going through. Although I started this in the manufacturing sector 17 years ago just running production, I seen all the tooling that was made and wondered how it was made and how I could get to do that. I raised my hand for every crap job out there to work my way up and get the experience I needed. I didnt go to trade school and couldnt with a family. But after about 7 years and several different jobs in the field, I got my first break as a general machinist. As years went by, I got different jobs learning everything I could about the field. Now I own my own shop, building molds and building Aerospace tooling.
Just keep at it. Keep calling and knocking on doors. One will open for you. This is one of the things I have always told every potential employer. I want to learn everything that I can. I will do what it takes to get there. I will sweep your floors and clean your bathrooms just to get in the door. Let them know you mean what you say and that you are very serious about the trade. Where I am at, toolmakers that are pasionate about there trade are very hard to come by. In fact, when I am ready to hire someone, I want someone who is new to the trade and has that kind of passion and desire that I spoke of. Keep in touch, because I am very interested how this will work for you.

[Charlie Gary]

Welcome to the battle. You are trying to break into a manufacturing career when the U.S. is shedding manufacturing jobs faster than Bernard Madhoff could spend other people's money. I'm not saying it's hopeless, just a bigger challenge than normal because so many experienced machinists in the world are looking for work.
Don't be surprised if you have to start on a burr bench, cleaning sumps on the side. Once you get your foot through a door, though, you'll be on your way to getting "experience". Keep trying, and keep soaking up all the information about machining you can get. Perseverance will pay off in the end.

[cncjunky]

Good morning and thank you for reading.

I am someone who wants to get started in machining/CNC/CAM at age 34 after wasting 15 years in the culinary "arts". I guess I had one of them middle-age realizations that I was not really made for such a profession where any clown is a chef nowadays. I just realized that all my life my true calling was staring at me in the form of all the technology and aerospace encyclopedias and magazines I read as a child and all the computers and furniture I have built from scratch. My calling is in precision manufacturing.

So I set out to take introductory CNC courses at a community college here in Chicago where I learned the basics on g codes, Mastercam and setup and operation. I feel that we did not spend nearly enough time on the machines to really feel comfortable, but that's another story. That was last summer, and my plan was to then find a place where I could start an apprenticeship or even an unpaid internship to no avail. I sent out many resumes, hand-delivered many more, checked with the manufacturing asociations, all for nothing.

I guess what I would like to ask is how can I break into the field? I feel that I have put a lot of effort into it and a year out I still have nothing. I am heartbroken and a bit desperate, so I'd like to ask if you have any advice as to what I am doing wrong.

Thank you for reading my rant and for any help you may be able to provide.

-Bryan.

Well bryan, your state sucks. No offense, but your state sucks and is doing very poarly. My state, which is Arizona, is doing supposabley the best as far as jobs and taxes . Arizona also has a lot of small business machine shops. Probabley the most I've ever seen in 1 state. So the one thing is where you live, the other thing is you got ripped off by a college. Just like all the others who wasted $30,000 + to go to college to learn something that you don't have to go to college for. How's that little peice of paper treatin ya? Not good, huh, cuz you still don't have a job. First off the way jobs are going I doubt you'll find a job in this feild. What you need to do is come up with a idea, there's big money in aerospace technology if you have knowledge in that subject then design something or modify something and give it a shot. Thats all you can do, but do you even own a machine? Another thing is when you went to your little college coarses all they taught you was how to use programs and gcode editing and yada yada, but what they did'nt teach you is how to be a machinest. If your making money doing what your doing I would'nt lose it to a pipe dream, thats not saying to stay involved with the cnc or machining period, but more as a hobby until you come up with something you can make money at.

[toddfr]

Hey Bryan, Do yourself a favor and dont listen to people like cncjunky. They are no help to you or anyone for that matter. If you listen to people like him, you will get nowhere! The only thing stopping you from doing what you want, is you. If I would have not followed my "pipedream", I wouldnt have my own shop. Keep going and dont let anything or anyone get in your way.

[bryzen]

Thank you Todd, Charlie, rtm and Kling for your encouragement. Todd especially for essentially describing my drive and passion for this new career. The things you did in the beginning I did too, except I was in the wrong field. I am commited to this change to the point of willing to do what it takes to become a machinist. I have never been afraid of hard work or new knowledge, and I know how to listen and to recognize my place in the pecking order. Like you said, it's just a matter of time and perseverance.

cncjunky: I understand where your frustration with school kids who think they know everything comes from. I have been a chef for 12 years now and I have dealt with culinary school fools more times than I would have liked. Once in a while though, I got to work with people with a genuine hunger for learning, and it was a pleasure to share my knowledge with them. I also happened to decide to make the switch during the worst economic crisis since before you and I were born, but I feel it's something I have to do. In the meantime I will continue working in my old trade.

Thank you again for the insight. I will keep you posted.

[cncjunky]

Thank you Todd, Charlie, rtm and Kling for your encouragement. Todd especially for essentially describing my drive and passion for this new career. The things you did in the beginning I did too, except I was in the wrong field. I am commited to this change to the point of willing to do what it takes to become a machinist. I have never been afraid of hard work or new knowledge, and I know how to listen and to recognize my place in the pecking order. Like you said, it's just a matter of time and perseverance.

cncjunky: I understand where your frustration with school kids who think they know everything comes from. I have been a chef for 12 years now and I have dealt with culinary school fools more times than I would have liked. Once in a while though, I got to work with people with a genuine hunger for learning, and it was a pleasure to share my knowledge with them. I also happened to decide to make the switch during the worst economic crisis since before you and I were born, but I feel it's something I have to do. In the meantime I will continue working in my old trade.

Thank you again for the insight. I will keep you posted.

I'm not saying don't try, but todd is a complete jack off who is a obvious waste of life living in fairyland out of reallity . All I'm saying about school is, the colleges take your money and promise you jobs, leaving you with no money and no job. Where do you end up flipping burgers or doing nothing. I know a guy who spent over $30,000 on schooling in the automotive industry and was promised a job and what is he doing, setting on his as$ doing nothing. The only job he was offered was a $7.50 an hour job to change oil, he was promised by the school he'd get a job making at least $39,000 a year. I know another guy like you, he spent the money to go to a community college to learn cnc programming, gcode and exc., my opinion is he paid for something if he wanted enough he could've learned for free, not to mention it got him absolutely no where but broke and in debt. His family and him own a shop and have been in business for nearly 60 years. Now there hurting, spent over payed on a cnc, overpayed to learn how to do cnc when they could've got a machine and learned first hand, and pretty much made bad business decisions. Being skeptical about things is far from knowing nothing, my dad has been in the business for 30 years and by being skeptical and conservative spending he has prevailed and kept the business alive. You have to be smart to survive in this business and take it very seriously, if you plan it being your bread and butter. Me I guess I got lucky to fall into a wealth of machinery and knowledge in the machining, fabrication, and welding area. I learned cnc code by picking up the controller manual and studying it and studying and studying it, all my time payed off. Then I got a cad cam system, studied and studied and studied got that going. After years of learning I am where I am. Spending close and beleive me close to no money in comparison to what alot of these shops spend on machinery and programs. Where does it get them by spending all that money on machinery ? It puts them out of business, then all there stuff goes to auction "sad but true" and a conservative spender like my self comes along and scarfs up the machinery for a smoking deal. Boils down to people making bad decisions and putting themselves in a bad situation. I myself would rather wait if I can for a good deal then take a humongous risk of losing it all. Hey some people take a risk and go into debt over a machine and it turns out good, but the majority lose everything. The proof is in the stack of machine auction flyers I have on my counter top of all the shops and big companies that have gone out of business. Good luck my friend, you'll need it just like we all do.

[Charlie Gary]

I'm not saying don't try, but todd is a complete jack off who is a obvious waste of life living in fairyland out of reallity . All I'm saying about school is, the colleges take your money and promise you jobs, leaving you with no money and no job. Where do you end up flipping burgers or doing nothing. I know a guy who spent over $30,000 on schooling in the automotive industry and was promised a job and what is he doing, setting on his as$ doing nothing. The only job he was offered was a $7.50 an hour job to change oil, he was promised by the school he'd get a job making at least $39,000 a year. I know another guy like you, he spent the money to go to a community college to learn cnc programming, gcode and exc., my opinion is he paid for something if he wanted enough he could've learned for free, not to mention it got him absolutely no where but broke and in debt. His family and him own a shop and have been in business for nearly 60 years. Now there hurting, spent over payed on a cnc, overpayed to learn how to do cnc when they could've got a machine and learned first hand, and pretty much made bad business decisions. Being skeptical about things is far from knowing nothing, my dad has been in the business for 30 years and by being skeptical and conservative spending he has prevailed and kept the business alive. You have to be smart to survive in this business and take it very seriously, if you plan it being your bread and butter. Me I guess I got lucky to fall into a wealth of machinery and knowledge in the machining, fabrication, and welding area. I learned cnc code by picking up the controller manual and studying it and studying and studying it, all my time payed off. Then I got a cad cam system, studied and studied and studied got that going. After years of learning I am where I am. Spending close and beleive me close to no money in comparison to what alot of these shops spend on machinery and programs. Where does it get them by spending all that money on machinery ? It puts them out of business, then all there stuff goes to auction "sad but true" and a conservative spender like my self comes along and scarfs up the machinery for a smoking deal. Boils down to people making bad decisions and putting themselves in a bad situation. I myself would rather wait if I can for a good deal then take a humongous risk of losing it all. Hey some people take a risk and go into debt over a machine and it turns out good, but the majority lose everything. The proof is in the stack of machine auction flyers I have on my counter top of all the shops and big companies that have gone out of business. Good luck my friend, you'll need it just like we all do.

Not out to start any kind of pissing contest here, just asking a question. Are you willing to let bryzen walk into your shop and learn it all on your dime? If so, you will be the first shop owner I've run across who said "yes". Not all of us can be born into a manufacturing family business. I can't tell you how many years went by with me trying to get a machinist job, always being told to come back when I had some experience. I finally bit the bullet and bought some experience from a school. All of my jobs since have been found through my associations with schools. One problem many people fresh out of school have is the expectation of getting something other than an entry-level job in the industry they want to work in. They don't understand they have to pay their dues, and their schooling will only allow them to do that faster because they already have some tidbits of knowledge floating around in their brains. Too many people think they can graduate from a machining program and get into to a programmer's slot. Even worse are the schools like MMI who promise jobs upon graduation, showing commercials of factory techs extolling the virtues of the program, when in reality there are bike mechanics who have learned listing MMI on a resume is grounds for being rejected without a face-to-face interview. The folks marketing these programs should be Bernard Madoff's next door neighbors. Years ago I got lucky when I was working the electronics counter at Target. A guy came in dressed like a plumber and asked about the most expensive graphing calculators in the case. As I let him play with one I asked what he was going to do with it. He talked to me about being a machinist at Boeing, and when I asked him how I could be a machinist, too, he told me about Renton Technical College. I went down and enrolled, did my time in the program, and while still in school got my first machinist job. The key for me was finding the right school. There were several to chose from, but Renton has one of the best programs in the region. You spoke about good vs. bad business decisions, and schooling is no different. I could have chosen a private school with high tuition, but the public college was pretty affordable. No big pile of debt was needed, and it was on me to pay attention and get all I could. Schools are no magic bullet for getting a job. They're just opportunities for people to learn as much as can be offered by the school. I think Human nature and people's inclination to take the path of least resistance are the real culprits why 85-90% of graduates aren't worth hiring.
All my own opinion, your mileage may vary.:cheers:

[ShortRunCNC]

I can offer you one bit of advice on a career change, simply, do what you enjoy and the money will come. I see it this way, I am lucky to get paid for what I do, becouse if I didnt I would still be doing it as a hobby.

[benji2505]

Bryzen,

try to leverage your existing experience with cooking. I am sure you can think of a couple of applications that can be made for that environment. Try to get a hand on a mill/lathe/grinder and then develop a product for the environment that you know already (knives, kitchen equipment, kitchen gismos) What did you miss when you were cooking/arranging? Develop it and make it yourself. Then think about who could buy this product - I know there are lots of outfits that sell kitchen products but they do not manufacture it themselves. Even if you do not make as much money as you would have on Wall Street, it will still get you out of the chair and it will be an experience that you can show to potential employers.

Benji

[twicecustom]

I would personally hire someone that just got out of school rather than someone who has worked for so many years in a "union" job. Around here, Its hard to find good help, and harder to find someone that is even willing to work. We have had Horrible luck in our shop with employees. One we went so far as to move one from Michigan, get him set up in a place, and he missed more work than was there. That guy was too used to working union, where you really don't have to work and still get paid. My suggestion if you are WILLING to work, show that, and someone that cares will notice. And if you are willing to move to a small town in ND, Send me your resume, I'd be glad to look it over.

Benjiman

[warrenb]

Bryzen,

Do you have the money to purchase yourself a cheap desktop CNC mill and lathe or at least a cheap manual mill? That alone will allow you to produce parts in your spare time and take along with you when you're pounding the pavement. You do have the right attitude and the extrememly important realization that you are entry level and you're not going to be paid what a 15 year experienced chef earns.

Another investment you can make is a quality set of inspection tools.

Like a few other people said here you'll need to get in on the ground floor. You'll sweep the floors, clean out coolant sumps, clean out CNCs, empty chip barrels, clean bathrooms, and while other machinists are working you will be polishing molds. On that note, polishing molds will be a sure fire way to get your foot in the door as polishing is a tedious job. You can leverage your chef experience in a high end tool shop. You have a keen eye for cleanliness and organization. I am sure you have discipline in keeping tools clean and sharp. Hustle these skills. Being in the tooling (wax investment molds) industry I think your best bet is the tooling industry rather than straight machining. The reason is is because there are more opportunities for entry level work in the tooling industry. A tooling shop can save a lot of money leaving the mold polishing to 'grunts' (and experienced tool makers don't want to do it).

If you can afford your own machines though, even if it's the cheapest of the cheap chinese harbor freight mill (check craigslist sometimes there are good benchtop lathes and mills) you can hone your skills and possibly even invent your own product for chefs that'll make you a millionaire. You'll be miles ahead showing up to shops with machined parts.

Another thing... Download all the demo CAD CAM software you can get your hands on. Alibre design is selling full capability design software for $100. (no I don't work for them). Download demo (or buy) versions of any CNC programs you can get your hands on. You can talk those guys at bobcad down to $100. (I don't work for them either). But these are invaluable skills you can only build with the right software. A shop won't care too much what software you know but if you can say "Yeah, I can do an IGES import, boolean add tooling features, assign a lace toolpath, and DNC the G-Code to your Fanuc controller. " And with your cheap benchtop machines you can say, "Yeah, I can align that sine plate, square up the vice, and touch off the tools."

Despite what some have said American manufacturing is NOT dead. I firmly believe small shop manufacturing will alway be strong in the country. Regardless of exports of mass produced parts to China, there is no substitute for local high quality machine shops.

Good Luck.

[cncjunky]

Bryzen,

Do you have the money to purchase yourself a cheap desktop CNC mill and lathe or at least a cheap manual mill? That alone will allow you to produce parts in your spare time and take along with you when you're pounding the pavement. You do have the right attitude and the extrememly important realization that you are entry level and you're not going to be paid what a 15 year experienced chef earns.

Another investment you can make is a quality set of inspection tools.

Like a few other people said here you'll need to get in on the ground floor. You'll sweep the floors, clean out coolant sumps, clean out CNCs, empty chip barrels, clean bathrooms, and while other machinists are working you will be polishing molds. On that note, polishing molds will be a sure fire way to get your foot in the door as polishing is a tedious job. You can leverage your chef experience in a high end tool shop. You have a keen eye for cleanliness and organization. I am sure you have discipline in keeping tools clean and sharp. Hustle these skills. Being in the tooling (wax investment molds) industry I think your best bet is the tooling industry rather than straight machining. The reason is is because there are more opportunities for entry level work in the tooling industry. A tooling shop can save a lot of money leaving the mold polishing to 'grunts' (and experienced tool makers don't want to do it).

If you can afford your own machines though, even if it's the cheapest of the cheap chinese harbor freight mill (check craigslist sometimes there are good benchtop lathes and mills) you can hone your skills and possibly even invent your own product for chefs that'll make you a millionaire. You'll be miles ahead showing up to shops with machined parts.

Another thing... Download all the demo CAD CAM software you can get your hands on. Alibre design is selling full capability design software for $100. (no I don't work for them). Download demo (or buy) versions of any CNC programs you can get your hands on. You can talk those guys at bobcad down to $100. (I don't work for them either). But these are invaluable skills you can only build with the right software. A shop won't care too much what software you know but if you can say "Yeah, I can do an IGES import, boolean add tooling features, assign a lace toolpath, and DNC the G-Code to your Fanuc controller. " And with your cheap benchtop machines you can say, "Yeah, I can align that sine plate, square up the vice, and touch off the tools."

Despite what some have said American manufacturing is NOT dead. I firmly believe small shop manufacturing will alway be strong in the country. Regardless of exports of mass produced parts to China, there is no substitute for local high quality machine shops.

Good Luck.

Well I thought you had some good points, but I think your contradicting your self very much. I beleive small and big manufacturing is going down the drain and your no help telling him to buy chinese crap . Bobcad told me otherwise too "as far as the machining industry" , but they are'nt machinest either they are salesmen trying to peddle their software "they are liars" . I'm not saying Bobcad doesn't have good software though I own v22 pro and v21 and am very pleased with the results and I own mastercam10 and they are very comparrible, they both just have a different learning curve. Just don't buy chinese garbage, you will definately regret you did and help the cause destroy American manufacturing, the very thing your start your new career in. That makes alot of sense to take away from your own and give more to the competition. You just buy a kit that was made in the U.S.A.

[warrenb]

Well I thought you had some good points, but I think your contradicting your self very much. I beleive small and big manufacturing is going down the drain and your no help telling him to buy chinese crap . Bobcad told me otherwise too "as far as the machining industry" , but they are'nt machinest either they are salesmen trying to peddle their software "they are liars" . I'm not saying Bobcad doesn't have good software though I own v22 pro and v21 and am very pleased with the results and I own mastercam10 and they are very comparrible, they both just have a different learning curve. Just don't buy chinese garbage, you will definately regret you did and help the cause destroy American manufacturing, the very thing your start your new career in. That makes alot of sense to take away from your own and give more to the competition. You just buy a kit that was made in the U.S.A.

:violin:

RE: cncjunky... Bryzen didn't ask how to resurrect the American manufacturing industry. He asked how to get a job in the cnc industry. As part of getting a first job you don't have the money to get that "Harvard" education so you go to a community college. You don't have the money to run out and get brand new $150,000 Haas machine or $15,000 Mastercam so you get Chinese machines and get introductory software. You get what you can afford. Chinese machines are affordable and bobcad is cheap. Both get the job done and are tools to expand your CNC machining experience and expand your CV.

The manufacturing industry is not hopeless so I'll leave it up to you to tell Bryzen he should just give up following his dream. Your pessimism bleeds on the screen like a smashed beet and is not helpful to anyone. You've taken your shots at Bryzen's goals and we who are trying to inspire and guide him. Go climb in your hole and feel sorry for yourself alone. The rest of us with small shops have work to do and can't be bothered listening to people like you. We're much more interested in helping guys like Bryzen accomplish his goals . If it were up to you all of us CNC machinists, manufacturers, and hobbiest should pack up our gear and wait for the innevitable bankruptcy of our businesses because we're doomed.

Bryzen: Another thought... There are cabinet shops that use CNC machinery. Maybe you can look in to those shops. You can get your foot in the door sweeping the shop and being an entry level technician for a nice CNC router. Router, Mill, lathe, they all operate on G-Code and the same principles. OH!!! This just came to me... Find friends in the industry you can use for professional references. Maybe you have a good friend who is a machinist that can introduce you to "the boss"???
Don't listen to people like cncjunky. In his mind the American manufacturing sector is dead never to recover. Everything in his mind is hopeless and fruitless. Re-read his posts and you'll see the misery in his writings. Nothing but doom and gloom. A miserable outlook. A hopeless life. A useless career. If I had listened to people like him when I was starting my career in the machining trades I would be holding a cardboard sign on a streetcorner begging for money. I had only a 2 year certificate from a community college in welding and drafting and now have a thriving (at times struggling) machining and design business. I built my business from NOTHING and now have two well paid fat employees!!! I work my ass off day and night. I saved every dime I had and got LEGITIMATE LICENSED software (starting with the affordable yet limited bobcad (now I use VX for everything)). I scrounged every penny I could and bought a chinese machine at the beginning and started making money by manually squaring aluminum blocks for a mold shop. Eventually I saved up enough to buy a junked CNC machine and learned how to retrofit that 30 year old CNC machine (Tree J300). That 30 year old machine now has a modern controller and produces parts for my customers. LESSON IS; Buy the tools YOU need and can afford to expand your portfolio and gain experience.
You have set yourself upon a long and hard road. I am your age (35) and am still on that same road. The only difference between you and me is I started a long time ago so I have a bit of a head start. But no matter. Manufacturing to me is the most rewarding road there is. This road NEVER ends beacuse there is always something new and always another fork in the road that leads to something good. Whatever your passion you can find reward manufacturing something that connects you with your passion. Do you like playing guitar? I do, and I have clients for whom I designed jigs to manufacture their guitar necks. Do you like fishing? You can design fishing lures. Do you like hunting? You can design rifle stocks. You as a chef are have manufacturing in your blood. Dare I say you like manufacturing tasty meals. There is NOTHING but reward in manufacturing.
You've chosen a good path. So many of us have made our way on the manufacturing path. For me it is a rewarding passion. I have worked for free for the value of experience. I can not imagine a more rewarding and fun career. DO NOT listen to people like cncjunky who only see doom and expect you (and all of us) to fail. PM me and the other supportive people here for inspiration and motivation. We support you. We will advise you. We know what it's like.
Cncjunky is more interested standing in the way of our goals than of supporting them.

Regards... Warren

[cncjunky]

Don't listen to IDIOTS You have to be skeptical or you'll fail
No guy, I'm giving actual advice that I took and used myself. You don't have to spend anywhere near $150,000 to get a good cnc mill, your a fool. I didn'nt pay anywhere near $15,000 for my mastercamX, why because I am cheap. I go for the best bang for my buck. I can get more then 100 times more for the same amount of money that you'd put into your chinese garbage. And no chinese garbage does'nt get the job done, it's cheap mass produced crap. Your a idiot that beleives 1 person does'nt make a difference, you should have your lips sewed shut, because you obviously are a software salesmen who could care less about anyone. When I speek I lookout for lesser experienced individuals and give them advice that my actions follow. Sure I could keep my lips shut and let all of our new blood in the industry make mistakes like wasting $2000 - $5000 on garbage, but I'm not a deusch.

[Garland]

I'll soon graduate my local community college with a (2 year) AA degree in machine Tool Tech. Im 33 now and till this point I was 12 years Active Duty, now Nat. Guard.

I have no illusions on what type of pay I'll hit the job market making because lots of shops around here expect 5 years experience and 5 axis programming..So I'll probably have to settle for like 10-13$ per hour starting out pushing a broom.

So I'll work parttime and stay in school to keep up with the bit of CAD progamming I do know right now. I'll ride out what I have left on my GI bill.

Not all of us have school debt or born to a mom/dad who puts a gold plated CNC machine/software in their crib. Lot of people could read the CNC manuals but with out the actual CNC machine it would make no sense to us. I needed the class.

I know a fella who is proud to sit on his azz living with mommy making 15$ per hour on welfare with no education. As he puts it,

" Why should I work? Unless I get a job paying over what I get on state assistance, I'll just stay home!"

Whats wrong with the chinese starter mills/lathes to start? I'll need to stash a lil Taig mill/lathe away to do things on the side if I will be starting out below welfare pay. Right?

[toddfr]

Wow, its amazing how a simple question from someone wanting to better his life can turn into a *****ing session. Lets face it guys, cncjunky is one of those guys who thinks he knows it all. Better yet, if you disagree with him in any way, he becomes a complete a$$hole. Yes cncjunky, you are a complete a$$hole. You talk about not needing school, well if I would have learned this trade from you instead of schooling, I would have shot myself. You know nothing about being in the military. Not working and getting all the schooling paid by the government? I did more work in one day than most Ive seen in this trade do in a week. It must suck to live like you do. Always a chip on your shoulder, thinking your right about everything. I bet you blame others for your misfortunes instead of taking responsiblility for them.
Hey cncjunky, Im not here to try to change who you are or convince you to let up on people. Im here to tell you to F^ck Off.
Have a good life cncjunky, I hope all your *****ing and complaining and most of all, your Pessimism works for you a$$hole!
Now get out of the way for all of us who want to work and change this economy with a positive attitude.

[billober33157]

Bryzen,
What you need to do is develop skills necessary to make finished parts and assemblies. What you need to do is get a copy of Autodesk Inventor, Solidworks, and MasterCam. You need to master these. This will take a year or two of serious effort. Then get a K2 router with Mach3 and make parts and assemblies from wood, foam, wax etc. While you are doing this keep looking for that first foot in the door. Oh ya, email me at billober33157 at gmail.com and I will tell you where to get working copies of the software. Ya, ya, I know people aren't supposed to use pirated software.