[FandZ]

Hi all. My mill head came in form littlemachineshop.com and I'm a little disappointed. Firstly, I think they sent me a used unit. It was packed in a box with broken Styrofoam. Looking the unit over, I can see black greasy finger smears. Also, one of the bolts are bent, and it looks like the base of the unit was crashed into a table. There is also plenty of chips and scratches in the paint.

It does turn on and spins. I haven't tightened and put in an r8 collet yet, but there just seems to be a light wobble/vibration on the spindle. You can feel the off center vibration through the table. It isn't much but it is there. I'm hoping once everything is tighten that the run-out goes away. Is that normal?

Are these rebuilt head units they sell or are they brand new?

I've never worked with a mill so maybe this is normal but I'm wondering if they sold me a lemon and if I should return it. All together I spent just 800 there on the mill head, pulley upgrade, and the manual quick change TTS system. I'm kinda wondering if I should have went with the Sherline spindle.

I'm attaching pics of the unit and how it arrived. Let me know your thoughts.

[Agro]

How sure are you the courier/transit company didn't drop it off the back of a truck ?

Send it back. If you didn't pay for used your shouldn't have gotten used.

J.

[FandZ]

How sure are you the courier/transit company didn't drop it off the back of a truck ?

Send it back. If you didn't pay for used your shouldn't have gotten used.

J.

Well it arrived in a big box surrounded by big bubble wrap then it was in the center of its own box. The markings I see on it look more like wear marks than dropped marks. I've worked in retail before and have had to take back returns and this looks like a return to me. I'm really worried about the spindle.When I ran it the vibration felt like it was out of balance. I'm hoping someone who has used and x2 before can tell me if that is common without a R8 collet in there.

I'm thinking I will have to send it back.

[port_huon]

Have you spoken to LMS?
Give them a call and explain the situation, I'm sure they'll sort it out.

[FandZ]

Have you spoken to LMS?
Give them a call and explain the situation, I'm sure they'll sort it out.

Looking at it some more I found wear marks on the bottom of the gear shaft that is behind the spindle. It looks like it hit a fixture while in use.


I just got it in today so I haven't spoken with them. I just requested an exchange on their website. They have a good reputation so hopefully it'll get resolved. I'll post back with the outcome.

[CarveOne]

The Styrofoam packing is not firm enough to handle the weight of cast iron assemblies. It will crumble like this during normal shock loads during shipping. I have gotten things like a 22" scroll saw from Grizzly that looked like this, and had two broken castings. There were no holes in the box when I signed for the delivery.

The bent bolt can be straightened easily enough. It looks like a T-slot bolt that is used on some mill table clamp sets.

The grease is normal for Chinese mill equipment. The workers handle a lot of greasy equipment each day and don't spend the time to clean up the equipment before packing.

The gears will look worn even when new. My buddy bought one of the HF mini-mills five or so years ago. I made the belt drive parts for him from plans he found on the web after he had a series of shattered gears. I looked at the broken gear pieces and they are cast, not machined from solid stock. The plastic had air bubbles in it and was fairly brittle, unlike higher quality machined nylon gears would look. There are replacement metal gears available, possibly from LMS, because of this problem. Mini-mill forums folks will know where to find them.

The way to check run-out is with a magnetic dial indicator base stuck to the side of the casting and a dial indicator mounted into the base. Install a collet with an end mill in the collet. Position the dial indicator tip on the shank of the end mill then rotate the end mill by hand and watch the indicator variations. If you see significant run-out, remove the collet, clean the collet and inside of the spindle, and try it again. You'll be lucky if you see 0.0015" to 0.003" run-out. Less is better though. You may feel significant backlash in the gears though, and that is normal.

I also recommend calling or emailing LMS about this before doing anything like trying to repair it yourself. I don't think that anything internal got damaged during shipment due to the Styrofoam packing. We'll never know if this particular unit was returned from a previous LMS customer or not.

CarveOne

[fatal-exception]

Did you seriously expect the paint to be in good condition? Good luck with that. I bought a new lathe from busy bee machine tools. It's been almost a year and the thing looks like a jawbreaker. I can count at least 4 colors of paint, if you can all that stuff paint. (ugly colors too. )

I bought the same head from LMS a few years ago and it arrived in about the same condition as yours, although there was no noticeable runout in the spindle, and I'm still using it to this day. If there's any runout, it's a dud, send it back. If there is indeed runout, I would say shame on LMS for sending it out. The dents nicks and scrapes dont matter, the runout does.

[Agro]

One thought on the collet - are you sure you have an R8 spindle and not MT3 ?

The majority of these mills are MT3, albeit a couple of suppliers distribute R8 versions.

J.

[FandZ]

Did you seriously expect the paint to be in good condition? Good luck with that. I bought a new lathe from busy bee machine tools. It's been almost a year and the thing looks like a jawbreaker. I can count at least 4 colors of paint, if you can all that stuff paint. (ugly colors too. )

I bought the same head from LMS a few years ago and it arrived in about the same condition as yours, although there was no noticeable runout in the spindle, and I'm still using it to this day. If there's any runout, it's a dud, send it back. If there is indeed runout, I would say shame on LMS for sending it out. The dents nicks and scrapes dont matter, the runout does.

Heck yea...lol I wanted it to sparkle. But after I thought about it some more and read everyone's post, I can see how it would get banged up in shipping. It'll come down to run-out if I keep it or not.

One thought on the collet - are you sure you have an R8 spindle and not MT3 ?

The majority of these mills are MT3, albeit a couple of suppliers distribute R8 versions.

Yea it's an R8. The R8 TTS system I ordered fits perfectly.

J.

Yea it's an R8. The TTS system I ordered fits perfectly.



Here is LMS's reply. I feel a lot better knowing they are willing to do what it takes to make it right.

"Anthony:

Please don't confuse "used" with "made in a filthy factory". That thing was in a box straight from China, right? Packed with broken bits of Styrofoam?

We will replace any bent knobs and such. And clearly, if the taper in the spindle has runout over 0.001" you get a new one.

But dings in the paint and such are pretty typical. And, with the gear drive they are not very quiet.

So please check it out from a functional standpoint. We will replace anything that does not work correctly, or replace the entire unit if need be."

[FandZ]

Thought I'd make an update. The mill head is not the source of the run-out, it's the r8 collet that holds the quick change tooling. I measured the run-out on an r8 indexable endmill and it's less than .0009. Whenever I put in the R8 collet with any of the TTS tooling the run our is .005 or more.

Here is a picture of it mounted.

[CarveOne]

Thought I'd make an update. The mill head is not the source of the run-out, it's the r8 collet that holds the quick change tooling. I measured the run-out on an r8 indexable endmill and it's less than .0009. Whenever I put in the R8 collet with any of the TTS tooling the run our is .005 or more.

Here is a picture of it mounted.

If the gear noise bothers you, there are a few variations of belt drive conversions available. I followed plans my buddy downloaded from the web and made the parts for him to do the conversion on his HF mini mill. It made a major difference in the way it runs and also has a wider speed range. I think LMS still sells a conversion kit also.

CarveOne

[FandZ]

Carve one, thanks for the heads up. It's hard to tell in the picture, but I've already upgraded to the belt system from LMS. It's good stuff. I just need to get a new R8 collet so I can use it. Right now the runout is too bad to use it for anything. I retested and it's .0080 - .0090


There is something you could advise me on. I want to strengthen my Z axis column by using some side support plates. I also want to use metal dowels that go through the plate and into the 80/20. What I'm thinking is I'll bolt the plates on the frame, then drill through them and the 80/20 on my drill press at the same time. Then hammer the dowels through to make sure I get a great fit. Does that sound like the way to go about it?

I'm attaching a picture that shows the bolt holes but not the dowel holes. They are the yellow plates.

[CarveOne]

Securely clamp the plate and extrusion together. Then drill the top and bottom corner locations with a thread size drill, tap the holes in the plates and extrusion for flat head or button head hex socket screws. Install the screws. Then you can remove the clamps to get them out of the way and proceed to do the same for the other holes or drill them for pins. Personally, I would drill and tap all of the holes for screws unless you can insure that the holes are sized properly for press-in pins.

The reason for threading the plates and extrusion together is that nothing can shift once you install the corner screws that way. It also means that if you remove the screws and take it apart it may have to be clamped again to get the screws started. You have the option to clearance drill the holes in the plates after all of the holes are drilled and tapped. I would still leave the corner screws threaded in both the plate and extrusion.

If your drill press has a depth stop you can use it to clearance drill the plate without disassembling the plate from the extrusion. Just let the drill go into the extrusion a little. Drill collars work also, but will mar the plate surface if it touches the plate.

Make sure that there is no gunk on the collet or inside the spindle that can interfere with centering of the collet. I think you already measured the spindle run-out and it was ok. Try another brand of collet if nothing else works.

CarveOne

[jsheerin]

Why go to all the trouble of drilling the 80/20 instead of just using the hardware and t-slots it was designed to connect with? It makes a pretty stiff joint...

[FandZ]

Why go to all the trouble of drilling the 80/20 instead of just using the hardware and t-slots it was designed to connect with? It makes a pretty stiff joint...

I will be using 80/20 corner braces on the back, but they only go up a little over 2 inches. I'm using 15 series 20/20. The side plates will be 9 inches long, so I'm hoping it'll give the Z the support I'm looking for. I was really surprised that after I got the mill head mounted, how much I could actually get the Z axis to bend.

[jsheerin]

I didn't mean use the 80/20 braces, but rather the t-nuts (or carriage bolts) in the t-slots instead of drilling all the way through.

[CarveOne]

One thing that is needed regardless of how it's put together is a way to "tram" the vertical extrusion to the work surface in the X and Y directions. The method I attempted to describe didn't allow for that unless the clearance holes are used on one of the extrusions. If the holes in the plate are aligned with the slots in the extrusion, then use the T-nuts as jsheerin suggests. You can make the plates as thick as you want to, or use mild steel plates.

CarveOne

[FandZ]

I didn't mean use the 80/20 braces, but rather the t-nuts (or carriage bolts) in the t-slots instead of drilling all the way through.

Oh, I see what you mean, I'll be using carriage bolts to hold the braces in. But I was thinking I should have some set pins, to help stiffen it all more. If you guys think I wouldn't see any added benefit using set pins too, let me know.


I just found out the bottom of my mill heads spindle is .004 out of square. That's what is throwing the TTS tooling off and not the collett as I suspected. Now I just need to figure out how to grind it flat on it's own power.

I'm at that point of frustration where the only thing I really want to do is chunk it in the trash.