[peter.blais]

Hey guys, I looked up my local extrusion place, www.futurainc.com and they look and sound pretty legit so I faxed them this print. I got quoted $1800 for tooling, still waiting on the quote per lb. So what do you guys who have had stuff extruded before think, am I getting hosed?

I sent the print in to a couple ones which were recommended in another thread on here... I guess I will see what they say. Its probably going to take me a long time to move 500 or 1000lbs of the stuff, so die cost is a big factor. Then I have to consider that out of state options your going to get whacked for shipping, every time...

What do you think?

[InspirationTool]

That doesn't sound like a bad price, although you might be able to do better.

How long do you need these? How accurate? Could you have them laser or waterjet cut from sheet stock?

-Jeff

[peter.blais]

Depends on the application but they are usually between 14" and 20" or so long per piece... Retail selling raw stock usually sell 3' pieces, so that means getting 12' ers extruded to minimize the scraps.

I've seen some guys doing billet ones and having them gun drilled, not sure what that would cost, and it basically eliminates the possibility of selling it as raw material as well as finished product.

[Geof]

It depends how much your first order is going to be and what the per lb price is bit $1800 seems a bit steep.

You might get a quote from here;

http://www.morseindustries.com/

I have no connection with them other than as a customer; satisified one at that.

[schiada96]

Is there not a fuel rail die out there allready?
www.injector.com/prorails.php

[peter.blais]

Yea, I'm sure there are lots of dies out there already, but you'd have to sit there and call extrusion places all over the country until you found a place, and I don't think its all that likely their going to let you use another customers die without charging you a die charge anyways.

Anyways I just got the official quote off my fax machine when I got home, looks like the final die charge (which includes lifetime service too btw) is $2000. The actual extrusion is $2.356 per pound, to do 8 foot sticks. I'm going to call tommorow and see if that price goes up or down when you do longer pieces, they can do up to 12' it sounds like. Longer pieces mean less scrap as well although a little more of a pain in the butt to store / deal with.

Looks like their minimum order is 500lbs worth which on this profile, in 8'ers equates to 64 pieces / 512'.

[NEATman]

Try alexandria extrusions. We've had decent prices from them.

NEATman

[SRT Mike]

I was quoted $750 for a die about 1.5 years ago. I don't recall from where, just a price point for you.

If you're starting out, you could begin with thick wall tubing that has the correct bore and machine a flat on one side?

[peter.blais]

Well, that might work, but you'd need to start with some hugely thick wall tubing and machine 3 of the sides flat as the injector pockets are typically like half an inch deep. I could buy 72+ feet of it retail for ~$7.50 / ft which would be the way to go if I didn't want to just extrude it myself. Pretty sure I want to have it extruded though as I can sell it as both finished products and material.

[SRT Mike]

Well, that might work, but you'd need to start with some hugely thick wall tubing and machine 3 of the sides flat as the injector pockets are typically like half an inch deep. I could buy 72+ feet of it retail for ~$7.50 / ft which would be the way to go if I didn't want to just extrude it myself. Pretty sure I want to have it extruded though as I can sell it as both finished products and material.

Well I guess I was thinking that if this was a small project where you dont want to spend $1800+ for tooling, that would be a cheap way to get what you want without the tooling costs. But if other folks are selling fuel injector rail extrusion, why bother getting it done yourself? Aeromotive sells the stuff too - but on your initial question, I think you can do better on that price probably by half.

[peter.blais]

Well, because if you plan on selling any quantity of fuel rails, extruding the stuff yourself gives you a way better profit margin in the long run. By the time you add in cut fees because they often will only fit 6' sections, and shipping, that stuff really eats into your profit.

[Dugg]

I have a hot cup of coffee that says the extrusion die you are looking for either exists or there is one very close to it. You might try some of the extruders to see if there is something available that might meet with your satisfaction... possibly a die from a job that is no longer current.

[kentsui]

Its only a little steep but it is mostly because it is a hollow die. In my neck of the woods thats about a 1200.00 die unless the tolerances are way tight. The industry standard tolerance would apply at the 11-1300.00 price for a die that size.
If I had that part run asap and could live with +-.007-8 tolerances I would expect to pay about 11-1300. for the die and about 2.00-2.20 a pound for material (which isn't any higher than I pay for billet and bar) and I would expect about 4-6 week delivery after about 2 weeks for print approval so about 6-8 weeks total.
You actual experiences may vary <g>,.
Good luck.

[machinbird]

I'll have to agree with Kentsui on the aluminum price and the die price. I buy a lot of extrusions (mostly 6063 T6). You have a hollow shape which means the die has to split the flow around a mandrel support and rejoin/reweld the flow of aluminum in order to make the hole. This support of the mandrel means the die is much more complicated than a solid shape.
If an extruder expects to get a lot of business from you, he might discount the die slightly to help get your business. As far as piece length goes, there is a minimum length that they can cut initially-normally around 8 feet. If you need shorter than that, it is a secondary operation with a cutting charge. Longer than the critical length does not drop the price. I'm seeing cutting charges of about 10 cents a cut presently. Extruders normally have customer dies and "standard shape" or house dies. If it is a custom shape, with the die paid for by a customer in accordance with the customer's design, then the extruder is really legally bound not to let anyone else use the die. The standard shapes are normally bars, squares, circles, rectangles, angles etc. If you can find a standard shape that meets your requirements, you can save yourself a die charge.
Do yourself a favor and get at least 3 quotes. Lead times, price per pound, tooling costs, and adherence to print tolerances are all over the place.
And if you can sell enough of it to do a second run, your die costs is behind you.

[Zumba]

What grade of aluminum are you dealing with? $2.30 a pound is a very interesting price, considering in northern CA, I pay over $4.00 a lb for 6061 solids.

[kentsui]

Zumba,
6000 series...6061T6, 6063, 6005T5, 6105,.
I've been paying around 2.00-2.20 here lately. Also, lead times on an existing die are down to an all time low of about 3 weeks. Pretty unusual for our neck of the woods. Usually 6-8 weeks.
4.00 is a lot for 6061.