[mikede]

Company I work for makes tire molds. 2 way to make a tire mold. 1st way is to directly engrave the tread into steel or aluminum. 2nd way is to mill the tread pattern into a wood like model that has casting shrink added. Then cast the tread from the model ( couple other interim steps involved so you can save the model). Both methods use a lot of 5-axis machining. We currently use a custom out of Acad translator for the 5 axis model work. We use Unigraphics for the direct tread engraving. Unigraphics allows great 5axis modeling and CAM BUT we need to write a lot of automation to be able to use it efficiently. The 5 axis model program is fast but has limits on what processes it can do and obvious viewing issues. Its only 2d in AutoCad. We are having demos done by NCL, DELCAM, TEBIS, and HYPERMILL. All have a tire module. NOW FINALLY the questions. Does anyone have any experience with these products? What are your experiences and opinions on the products? Should we change from UG to 1 of the products or bite the bullet and write the automation?

Thanks
Mike DeBerry

[turmite]

HI Mike,

I can't speak to your 5 axis cam need but for modeling the tires Rhino would be great. Version 4 is about to hit the market and it has some features in it that would make the tread modeling a snap.

Where are you loacted in the US? I have a atv tire nearly finished modeled and need some info as to tire industry contacts.


Mike

[cadman]

We are an NCL shop. Most of our parts are medical, aerospace and cryogenic (inducers, diffusers, impellers, etc..) and have very complex geometries. To sum it up, NCL can do anything you want and you have complete control of your tool paths. It is multi-axis software, period. It is not 3 axis with 4 & 5 axis options.

The downside: steep learning curve, very little automation as far as canned pocketing and surfacing goes, somewhat primitive interface, and editing can be a nightmare if you are not proficient in NCL. Also it does not use solids. Strictly surfaces & wireframe. There is an option for importing SolidWorks bodies though.

For 3 axis work look elsewhere. If you have complex 5 axis parts, NCL is 5 axis. For model creation, use a separate cad system.

[mikede]

Turmite,

We used Rhino at the last company I worked for to create 3d models for Powerinspect. I'm really looking at something that will take in the 3d model from the tire company and allow us to manipulate it. Located in the US but don't have much contact with the actual tire companies. Good luck with the ATV tire design.

Mike

[biomed_eng]

www.nccs.com has 5-axis software solutions specifically for tire molds.

[CNCRim]

Mikede, UG is one of the best 5-axis out there I think. I don't think any other CAM can do any better than the one you have, but it doesn't hurt to ask for a demo.

[Jacktak]

I have experience whit Hypermill, have seen demos by Delcam,Tebis,Powermill,Cimatron and Hypermill. We made a very complex part, gave them an hour each... Hypermill made the part in 40 minutes. None of the others could get the job done, some of them, not even close. But but, read in the Hypermill forum, that their support in English are bad... I am from Denmark, we learn German in school, so we have no problems...:-)

[Tony the Ferret]

No mention of the excelent 5 axis solution from WorkNC. easy to use then just forget, the toolpath comes with built in machine aviodance and collision checking, gone are the days of the CAM system telling you "THERE WILL BE A COLLISION at node point 2345343 to 234571". Check it out.
www.foregonesolutions.co.uk

[blowmebigtime]

I program and run a five axis machine using Delcam's powermill,,, the automation part of Delcam is very good,, (writing macro's and templates, VB's and such) I have never made a tire mold but I would assume I could accomplish this in powermill quite easily. After using powermill for a while I was doing research and it seems like Unigraphics has the BEST there is as far as 5x work. Delcam, Tebis, and Work NC, a close second. Mastercam, surfcam, hypermill, onecnc, camtool, pro-manufacture,, ext... ext... , great for 3x work but when it comes to the real stuff it's not even close in my book.

[Tony the Ferret]

I was using UG for 5 years befor i started using WorkNC, in my mind there is NO comparison, i could do things with WNC in a short time that i never got to grips with in all the 5 years on UG , Training for UG was in total about 10 days, I had 2 on WNC and will never look back, I have so much confidence in the product i am now selling it as an independant agent. Have trained Delcam users in 1 day, they will never let go of WNC. Don't need all the macro's or VB's. WorkNC will just get on and cut.. I offer a challenge for anyone to program a part quicker than WorkNC. That is in 2,3,4 3+2 of full 5 axis... Send me the part!!!!

[blowmebigtime]

That is one thing I heard about UG and to some degree powermill as well,, and that is there is a huge learning curve. Delcam has so many different toolpath strategies that it can get overwhelming to a new user..

[Tony the Ferret]

From my experience, and asking P/M users, they say if you manage to be an expert, you can get by, but it is very difficult to teach new users, and especialy those who are only occasional users.
WorkNC has approx 50 toolpath types, but the common interface lets any one create paths in a very short time. See the attached. It may seem Quirky, but it really allows you to crack on. The other fantastic time saving thing, is the ability to create toolpaths whilst a calculation is in operation, then when the calc is finished, the uncalculated can be started.
With UG, we had to purchase Vericut to simulate the toolpaths on the screen. But had to wait for all calculations to finish. So i spent long hours looking at a calculation screen, could not do anything else, cad was locked, could not pp, could not lay down new toolpaths..........Ho Hum, have a walk round the shop......
www.foregonesolutions.co.uk

[blowmebigtime]

Very true tony,,, one very big selling point for work nc. is to be able to calculate a toolpath and get another one ready while the computer is crunching numbers on the first one. Powermill cannot do that and it's been a gripe for me since day one !.. the best I can do is get several toolpaths ready and "batch" process them while I am out in the shop.

[Tony the Ferret]

Thanks "blowmebigtime", comments well received.
A regular objection i encounter, from managers who NEED to save money & be more productive is "We already have CAM software, it is all the same ,so why should we change"
I regularly prove to them with only 10% savings (for a new user and up to 30% whan using it productivley- after 2 weeks) WorkNC payes for its self in about 7 weeks,,, then the savings are money in the bank..
But the BIGGEST objection is from users who think they will see their overtime evaporate because WorkNC looks too good to be true. One of my customers (and a good friend) from ONE seat of WNC can feed SEVEN yes SEVEN machining centres with fender sized mould tools and prototypes.

[CNCRim]

I regularly prove to them with only 10% savings (for a new user and up to 30% whan using it productivley- after 2 weeks) WorkNC payes for its self in about 7 weeks,,, then the savings are money in the bank..

Mr.
7weeks I pretty sure you over state. If you can get the money back with 1 years, it's consider as pretty good investment.

[Tony the Ferret]

sorry if you think i am mistaken, take up the challenge, call your local Sescoi office.
There is a downloadable calculator on www.foregonesolutions.co.uk, you only need to fill the blanks. This will give you in easy to understand spreadsheet, the payback time and costs. I do not know your local cost of WorkNC, but check it out.

[Tony the Ferret]

:wave: In this game one year is a lifetime, if you had a computer that was slow, awkward too complex to use, how long would it last.

if i invested $20,000 (or whatever your local price is for Delcam/WorkNC) as sure as eggs is eggs I would want it earning from day one, we know that this is a pipe dream, or is it.......
we had one guy, had WNC on trial, had 1 yes 1 day's training, and was cutting productivley BEFORE the week was finished. come the end of trial (2 weeks), we went to take it back. He had COMPLETED 3 projects. You think i joke or exagerate. that is why WNC is underestimated and kept a secret by its faithfull followers

[Verfur]

Esprit is what we use and they have all kinds of trainning or use there hads on training.
they are world wide


cimtulsa.com

[Dan B]

Take a look at these videos if you doubt WorkNC's abilities. Both of these jobs were programmed in minutes, not hours.

http://video.google.ca/videosearch?q=WorkNC

Dan

[CNCRim]

I won't argue with you because don't you think all salemen are talk the same way about their product.
I had work with WorkNC(Version 16.21) it is good and it support all the manufacture futures(2axis up to 22-axis and all kind of toolpath)........ but I'm still disagree that we can get money back in that short period.