[SilentPass]

Jumped on the youtube bandwagon a few days ago and watched an endless stream of hobbyists with cnc rigged minilathes. After 40 or 50 of these videos I come away with the feeling that a lot of the characters operating these machines never learned the fundamentals of good machining.

Maybe on the big swiss machines you can get away with not lubricating the cutter but slicing off 30 thou of CLS on a minilathe with a FR of 20tpi and no cutting solution? WOW? I even watched one person scapegoat their rig when it started vibrating and causing massive distortions in my retinas when his program blasted through a piece of mild steel with a cutter that was chipped (I could see that it was chipped!)

Unbelievable... some of these characters badly need to pick up a bottle of cutting fluid once in a while (your tools gets HOT!) and learn how to sharpen them before a final pass on a thread.

[Garland]

Nahh they have it about right.<---(sarcastic)

Im a college student getting my AA as a machinist. Up till now we have studied manual lathes/knee mills...Tool Geo ... speeds/feeds ..... Trigonometry ... etc..

My classmate went to a local machine shop for a job interview. They asked if he knew mastercam? He said next Semester is when we start that.

They said he wasnt even a beginning machinist and their guys doent need Trig or manual machinist experience as the CAD program does all that for them.

Kinda pissed off my Instrutor after hearing that.

Maybe my learning both, the manual techniques and the new CAD Mastercam puter method I'll have a step up on mere "Operators" who think they are true Machinists.

hell ya have to know just what your cutters are capable of to even program a CAD puter.

Sad to see that the old school machinist are retiring and that knowledge isnt being passed down cause the new guys want a puterized crutch instead of using CAD for what it is......A compliment to the rest of the tools in your machinist tool box.

[Geof]

If they are lazy and incompetent they are not Machinists; don't insult true Machinists by using such a thread title.

Garland has it correct.

[CarbideBob]

You're supposed to use cutting fluid and the tools not supposed to get hot?
I wish somebody had told me that about 3 million transmission shafts ago.
(just funnin with ya)
Bob

[Thumpper-14]

I got my degree from a local community collage went out to The real world.I found That no one wants, a manual Machinist any more. As soon as I said smartcam "Bam" I was parked Behind a desk that was 10 years ago.I had to go Buy me a mini lathe, Just to cut some Chips.( Ok I couldn't stand it). then I bought me a south bend. its got a 14.5 swing. Now I plan to CNC the Mini. I want learn what the big deal is with cnc. I have been making parts for years on manual and newbies come to work making more money becouse of this cnc. I just plan to play with it for now. I enjoy making parts for my hobbies by hand.
I am a CNC Laser programmer. I only program in 2d at work but plan to do more at home


Lesson #1
NO COOLANT

Lesson #2
Buy only insertable tooling (That way no have to sharpen)
I was told that By a recent Graduate of my old collage

[CoreyD87-123]

Hey all!
I'm not an experienced machinist by any means, but my father has been in this business for 15+ years, and he learned at a technical college on real machines . I also work with an older fellow (he's about 75ish) that makes precision parts for military servos, and he's been doing this for probably 40+ years . . . Now i love the CNC machines, especially those Hardinge precision lathes i get to play with at work , but i have to agree with everyone . . . if you can figure out how to make a part by hand, then programming a PC should be cake. and as for CAD . . . i've never used it . . . all the stuff i've been allowed to program uses the old G-M codes . . . But yeah, you all are very right . . . the little time i've spent turning by hand has made a huge difference with my understanding of the CNC stuff.

[Brick58]

There is a lot of people calling themselves or their work place titles them a machinist. I have worked about 10 years as a machinist, I do have a federal card saying such as I went through an 4 year apprenticeship in about 2.5 years. Presently I am a drafter.
It is worring that most are being trained as basically machine operators. I will put Tool and Die makers a notch above machinist. But to me a Machinist builds or makes machines. Trig and other math skills are need. I have been around some that could crank out programs on CAM packages, but if there was a problem with the program, then they were sunk. Knowing basic G & M codes and how to do basic CNC programing would help.
I'm not a wonder machinist by any stretch of the imagination, but I can produce good parts on manual machines. You do learn good setup practices on manual machines. Also, your face is close to the part. There is no plexiglass to hide behind. So mistakes take on a different reality.
Tom

[jallitt]

Jumped on the youtube bandwagon a few days ago and watched an endless stream of hobbyists with cnc rigged minilathes. After 40 or 50 of these videos I come away with the feeling that a lot of the characters operating these machines never learned the fundamentals of good machining.

I think you answered your own question by using the word hobbyist. On youtube there are more videos done by hobbyists in my professional field (computer graphics and animation) than there are videos by hobbyist mini-lathers. But you don't see me dismissing their work on their forums because I have 20 years more experience than them and more computing power at my disposal than anyone else in the southern hemisphere.

I have 2 CNC routers, a CNC mill (X3) and a CNC lathe (Emco compact 5) in my workshop to indulge my modelmaking HOBBY and I bought my first manual lathe because I couldn't find a PROFESSIONAL machinist who was interested in making the parts I needed. Since I have some computing skills CNC was the next logical step.

Maybe I don't always use the correct feedrate, maybe I don't always use the correct tool, maybe I wreck a few parts, break a tool, seize a bearing, or trash the plastic gearbox in a chinese mill, but at least I'm having FUN while I'm doing it. If it stops being FUN, I'll find a new HOBBY.

[Fixittt]

while yes, you watch the videos and see all the things they are doing wrong ect, but there are basically two types of learning, by books, or hands on. I am a hands on type of person. i would much rather cut a part and break something, then read why you should do it this or that way. I am no machinist by any stretch, I am horrible in math ect. But I can funble my way thru cranking handles ect to get something "CLOSE" to what I need. And I learned something in the process. Most of my stuff is done in wax, so there is a TON of leway there, but when I machine aluminum, I have "LEARNED" to do alot of little cuts. Measure 9 times cut 7. I have friends who classify me as a machinist. But I know that I lack the skills, But at least I crank the handles.

So yeah, the you tube videos are of people who may not be of the machinist standard. but at least they are doing something, even if its wrong. We all started somewhere.I got some you tube videos of my mill cutting thru wax, maybe I need to do some of the mini lathe HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[hutchison]

^ so tell me do you use coolant yet?, you could start by reading up on the 'red hardness value' of various cutting materials, this would be an informative place to start, joking aside, Theory is a good help. if you measure twice and cut once you already know half the job!, a know it all approach to a job will always end with a balls up.


true, everybody has to start somewhere. I started over a decade ago, don't make any difference in the knowledge stakes you still get the old gits that say: "they dont do any toolmaking here, but when i was at the other place, blah blah".
i'm still learning... everyday i find a new way of catching a splinter in my finger, and everyday i stop somewhere different in the factory, sit down, take my boot off, and pull a splinter out of my toe.

The worst thing about machining? when it's blazin hot in summer, you took ages to set up, it's like holding a piece of glass in the chuck. forehead sweating from the intensity of concentrating, heart rate up, you take that first and only cut on the steel, your close in on the job studying the cut, watching, waiting, you cant blink,...... as the cut moves on further your heart rate lowers, everything's cool it's going to be allright!.

Coming up to the stop on your colchester you move your hands over to the apron controls, it's getting close now, at that point you know your hands have to stay over them controls as if you move them you will either drive the saddle in to the stop and it'l kick the dog clutch out and bounce off and leave a witness in the job, worse still it'l ram the tool into the job, trash it and the tool, and make a god awful noise like the machine is about to blow!.

Aint it just sod's law that at that specific critical time you know you cant move your hands away from the apron, like a well timed homing missile a red hot chip finds it's way out of the chip gaurd, around your safety glasses, and onto the soft upper part of your cheek and instead of bouncing off your face it sticks there like glue because its sweaty, worst still you just have to stand there and wait a second or so till you can pull off the cut before removing the chip, or risk smashing the job up, you can sometimes even hear it sizzling on your face damn!, thats when the swearing starts.

somehow, i still have all of my fingers, both hands! and still have both eyes, thats one of the mystery's of the job, it's just so damn dangerous, it beggars belief people do not loose limbs more regular. I would say it takes at least five years to learn how to be safe running a machine, and the rest of your life can be spent learning how to machine all the different types of materials!.


I started on manual machines, and i'm now moving onto cnc because I want to learn that aswell. I would be happy if i spent the rest of my life machining. i think i may be lucky enough!.

moving from manual machining and toolmaking to cnc machining has been alot harder than i thought, a manual machine shop, and a high speed cnc department are two completely different skills, thats some thing you do not see without looking at both subjects. i take my hat off to the programmers and setters of the world the subject has alot of depth!.