[drumsticksplint]

Hi Guys,

I thought I'd just start the thread to document the process of buying a chinese machine. I'm from the UK, so my experience might be slightly different from most users on here....

Anyway, I've come to the realisation that my machine I'm building isn't going to get finished and I'm loosing work that could earn me money. The best option for me at this stage is to buy a new machine and that points me in the direction of the Chinese market.

I have read through a few forums about buying from China and there are some horror stories, but there are many many happy customers, who now own machines that are just as capable of machine manufactured in the USA, Canada, UK etc etc, but for a fraction of the price. I'm hoping to add to that list with my purchase.

Reading through many posts I've heard good things about Omni cnc and Quick cnc, so thats where I start first. I have contacted both companies and have found both Taney from Quick and Jack from Omni to be fantastic at replying with information, prices and advice. I'm looking for an 8 x 4 machine or 1325 format as they commonly come in (2500 x 1300). With my budget as my guide I find that the K45MT / 1325 and the Omni 1325 are my best options, both with similar specifications, both similar prices.

Quick K45MT/1325: This was the first machine that I looked into and I really liked the look of the quality of the machine and other users have documented their machine purchases with detailed photographs, which is really helpful and encouraging! When I first made contact with Taney he was more then helpful and was very forthcoming with information and prices. I was provided with a price list of all the machines and configurations within that machine type, so I could see what my money could get me. The prices also had 15% discount at this point, which made it even better! I was lucky enough to find an old customer of Quick with the same machine only in a bigger format and not to far from me. I went to view his machine this week and was very happy with the overall build quality and sturdiness, the machine was a few years old, but still performed very well.

Omni 1325: I thought I'd settled on the Quick machine, but tried Omni just to settle my mind. Jack has been very good to deal with and he replies very quickly with the information that I required. I would say that Omni allowed me to customise a quote a little better and to add on and take away what I wanted, maybe it was just the questions I asked? There seems to be a good following of these machines and many fans of Jack's willingness to help. I haven't yet seen an Omni machine in person, but I'm quite confident that the quality will equal that of Quick's

So.... I'm in a dilemma.... Which machine??

Just from personal preference alone I think I'm leaning towards the Omni 1325 with 6kw air cooled spindle, vac bed, mach3 (for now) and possibly servo's... The servo option is slightly more than I can afford and this would be for chinese servo's and drives. I was working on the theory that if my machine had cheap steppers and drives, if 1 failed then I could replace cheaply and quickly, or even keep some as spares just in case. However, with servo's I think these might be more durable, but costly to replace. I'd like the speed, smoothness and accuracy I'd get with the servo's or perhaps i don't really need them?? Any experiences and advice would be welcome on this matter. I'm thinking mach3 for now because I don't really like the DSP controller, that and I eventually want to upgrade to an atc spindle, so could incorporate this into mach3 or Eding cnc, which is what I will probably end up with.

Anyway, these are my thoughts for now. If anyone has any additional things to consider then please feel free to chip in

[gfacer]

I would easily go servos and slightly smaller on the spindle. The servos should be Japanese brand but well worth moving the budget for.

[drumsticksplint]

Do you think 4.5Kw would be adequate for woods and plastics? My thinking was if I were to opt for servos to get more useable speed then I'd need a higher powered spindle for bigger cuts? The Yaskawa servo package was a bit more expensive again, the price I was looking at was for Inovence Chinese servo's and drives. Steppers would be ok, but if I wanted to upgrade later on then It'd probably cost me more for the servo package, plus I'd have already paid for the steppers, which will then be redundant....

What machine do you have gfacer and with what spec?

Thanks

[drumsticksplint]

Ok, a slight backtrack on my last update.... This has been quite a stressful experience and I haven't really made it any easier by comparing 2 machines that appear to be on par with each other. The Quick k45mt and the Omni 1325. In the end I have gone with the Omni, although I was so close to putting down the payment for the Quick cnc. The only thing that swung it for me was the package that Jack is doing for me and the price! I've put down a deposit for the following machine: 1325 work area with 4.5Kw spindle 7.5Kw Delta inverter, 7.5kw dry vacuum pump, 750w AC servo's, Vacuum table with integrated 'T' slots, DSP A11.

I will update here with the progress and hopefully some build photo's

[gfacer2]

Yes 4.5kw is fine for wood and plastic, you're speed is limited in plastic and in solid woods. Unless you are blowing through mdf all day 4.5kw is fine. Yaskawa servos are well known, I've never heard of the Chinese brand you mentioned.

We don't have a Chinese router (yet) but we have several cnc machines and our next will likely be Chinese.

[drumsticksplint]

Cool, Well that might save me a bit of cash then. yeah Yaskawa should be what I'm aiming for really! What size vacuum pump do you use for an 8 x 4 vacuum table (if any). I'e already got a 4.8Kw blower type kicking around, the package from Omni comes with a 5.5Kw, I'm wondering if I might be able to cut back on that to help fund the servos? Probably Kw doesn't mean very much and more the performance of the pump, but I guess Kw serves as a rough guide??

[drumsticksplint]

Hi guys, not much of an update, but I'm trying to keep this thread going... I spoke with Jack from omni earlier this week, maybe Monday ish, My machine was around 60% complete at that stage and he was going to send some pictures in the next couple of days. I'm super excited to see the machine for the first time cant wait!

As soon as the pictures land in my inbox I'll be sure to post them up here for you all to see.

I'm just anticipating the logistics of getting the machine into my workshop this end... I only have a small doorway, so the machine will have to go in on its side with the gantry removed, there is no other way! I'm not really worried about taking off the gantry and cabling, its more about handling the weight of the framework through my doorway and into my workshop. I do have a forklift though, its only 1 tonne but I've moved all my other machinery in with it

Anyway, once the machine is over here then I can ponder over that some more.

[gfacer2]

I have a 7.5 hp blower for a 4x5 table. Greg has a 15hp for a 5x10. But his performance curve is also higher vacuum. I'll be moving to a 15hp next. You'll only ever want more vacuum...

[drumsticksplint]

Well if I decided to go with Quick cnc K45MT then the package includes a 7.5kw / 10HP regenerative blower vacuum pump Omni has offered a 5.5kw / 7.5HP

I might have made a compromise on the stepper / servo scenario too, I've been offered the option to have Leadshine hybrid servos, which is basically a type of stepper motor but with encoder feedback. This offers the best of both worlds really, the accuracy and performance similar to a servo, but with the simpler and cheaper control of a stepper. I was looking the these to use on a lathe retrofit some time ago, I also use Leadshine steppers on my plasma cutter and have played around with a few of their other drives. Nice quality, reliability and quite reasonably priced. I don't think I can really afford the AC servo package at this stage, unless I go for the cheapest chinese system, which could be asking for trouble. At least with a stepper system if something goes wrong its peanuts to replace

Anyway, I have to make my decision by next week as the 6 to 8 weeks delivery to the UK will put me right into the middle of summer, the time I need to try and establish a decent customer base before the work dies back into winter. Any more advice that will help me make my decision will be helpful.

[gfacer]

On paper it should work, but I can't see pushing these machines with steppers, esp. not fast. Would not do it myself....for example my CNT, mostly aluminum, has 1000w servos on XY. The omnibus and other Chinese machines has 850w on a heavier machine. That's probably OK due to the nature of servos but something with discrete steps to lose (then recovered for I understand) would worry me more....although tuning is easier.

But, you can always put in servos later too, dmm sells reasonable kits for example.

As for the vacuum, depends what you are cutting. Regen blowers good for porous materials like MDF, and work well enough for non porous like plastic, but there is also the Becker style pumps, more pressure for the KW buy less airflow. Consider what works best for you.

[drumsticksplint]

Yes I know hybrid servo's are a bit of a compromise, but they are offering hybrid servo's / steppers for the same price as conventional steppers, which makes sense to me. I'm contemplating whether I can afford proper servo's and if the cost increase would benefit me initially, like you say, I could always add servo's at a later date. The hybrid servo also works similar to servo's but instead of losing steps, servo's just have a positional error, which is feedback and corrected within the closed loop system. The only difference would be performance at higher speed, this is where the servo would be ideal.

I'll check out dmm for servo's though.

Ok, I'll stick to the higher Kw for the vacuum pump. It will have to be regen blower for now as the Becker types are serious ££££'s

[piniaki]

hello drumsticksplint,
i have been following closely this thread because a iam considering to buy a CNC for woodworking.
i must say i am a beginner in this and i am searching for something rather economical (under 5000 €) therefore i am looking into Chinese machines. My problem is that i am quite sceptical about buying Chinese and the biggest problem is to find a reliable manufacturer so at least i wont be cheated and pay for a machine a considerable sum of money to get an empty box. i have noticed that many machines are the same and they are offered by different companies (probably because there are many chinese resellers of the same machine). Also many of these companies have almost the same name to confuse us.
So the question is how to contact the real manufacturer and a trustworthy one.
Could you please let me know the link for the "Omni" and "Quick" CNC suplliers?
i am also very curious about the end result of your purchase, so i will be following.

thanks a lot man.

[drumsticksplint]

Hi guys,

Ok well I've had some pictures through of my machine so far.... Jack said there was another 3 days work to do before it is ready to despatch Time to get things ready this end then!

Anyway, here are the pictures of the nearly complete machine:

[drumsticksplint]

Right ok, after a mach anticipated wait, my machine should be delivered to my workshop tomorrow

It seems like I placed the order ages ago... oh no wait, it was ages ago! Never the less, I'm hoping to take delivery of the machine tomorrow morning! I will try and take some pictures of the it being de crated and loaded into position if the weather is kind enough. I had posted before that the doorway to my workshop is very narrow and so the machine will have to be partly disassembled and loaded in side ways, then put back together.

I hope to have some updates tomorrow

[FandZ]

Looking forward to your update. I'm 99% my next machine will be an Omni.

Right ok, after a mach anticipated wait, my machine should be delivered to my workshop tomorrow

It seems like I placed the order ages ago... oh no wait, it was ages ago! Never the less, I'm hoping to take delivery of the machine tomorrow morning! I will try and take some pictures of the it being de crated and loaded into position if the weather is kind enough. I had posted before that the doorway to my workshop is very narrow and so the machine will have to be partly disassembled and loaded in side ways, then put back together.

I hope to have some updates tomorrow

[ahalbanese]

Oh Oh

I read all the thread expecting the confirmation that your decisión was the right.
But unfortunatelly i can't find more comments after 7-12-15.
I'm really interested how was your experience and I would like see some pictures.
Can you update the information?
Thanks

[gfacer]

To add, these machines are a lot heavier than a plasma would be!

[drumsticksplint]

Just another update. The machine is now ready to be dispatched to me I've made the final payment today, its now in the hands of my UK shipping agent to get the machine to me, hopefully without any issues.

[gfacer]

The other thing, though minor, is that steppers will whine and sing, whereas servo motors just go quietly.... I don't miss that but not such a big deal with the spindle cutting. What was the savings anyways?

[drumsticksplint]

Just a quick update, I will be going for the Leadshine hybrid servo / stepper system. Taney has been very good and offered me a good price for this system (I won't say how much to protect his sales technique). I will pay for the machine in the next couple of days once I get the funds in place.

The machine I'm going for is the Quick K45MT / 1325, 4.5kw air cooled spindle, leadshine hybrid servo's, 7.5Kw vacuum pump with bakelite integrated T slot table and DSP A11 control. I've been promised pictures of the machine build, so will share them here for you all to see.