[chemosavi]

Hi folks. Long time plasmacam owner going to meet the brave new world and get a machine that actually does what it's supposed to do.
Tossing and turning over the decision. FastCut Canadians are close by but really like the feel of the DT folks and their machine, plus it has scrolling and if XLS, nesting software. Belt drives vs gears on the XLS. Any opinions on the two machines? Tried both?

Thanks, Anthony ANTHONY HOWE SCULPTURE

[chemosavi]

Answered my own question. Going with the DynaTorch. Collision detection, laser guidance, and scribing, all options not offered by FastCut. And if there's one thing I've learned not so well, get it if you think you'll need it when it comes to metal work. The Fastcut looks good and if I was Canadian it would be more difficult.
Thanks

[CNCCajun]

Please keep us posted on the XLS . . . I'm looking at the same machine in a 4X4 configuration . . .

After looking at your site, I'm not sure which is more impressive . . . . your work, your biography, your shop or your location . . . .

All so very nice . . . .

Steve in Louisiana,

[DareBee]

The fastcut appears to be a great machine. HOWEVER it was TWICE the price of the XLR8 (DT) that I bought so I didn't go beyond the pricing stage.
The XLS appears to be same as XLR8 without downdraft (quick glance at specs).
IMO if you are going to move up to XLS, might as well go all the way to XLR8 and have fume control.
Plasma fumes are nasty

[chemosavi]

I could be wrong but the XLR8 has servos that allow a high definition plasma machine to work on it whereas the XLS does not. There is a substantial price increase for this difference and not a huge difference in reliability and operability. I will never get an HD machine since it requires 3phase and to get that in my facility would cost roughly twice that of the machine. I have been removing the fumes from my plasmacan't for 15 years with a homemade system. Many thanks for your advice, irregardless.

[CNCCajun]

The XLS is available with a water table or downdraft.

You are correct, basically the only difference between the XLS and the XLR8 is the latter of the two has the ability to handle HIGH DEFINITION PLASMA CUTTERS.

Steve

I could be wrong but the XLR8 has servos that allow a high definition plasma machine to work on it whereas the XLS does not. There is a substantial price increase for this difference and not a huge difference in reliability and operability. I will never get an HD machine since it requires 3phase and to get that in my facility would cost roughly twice that of the machine. I have been removing the fumes from my plasmacan't for 15 years with a homemade system. Many thanks for your advice, irregardless.

[DareBee]

Please explain WHAT it is that makes it high-def capable?

[CNCCajun]

The High-Def capable is due to the control system. The compo nets in the XLR8 are of a type that are not affected by the noise created by the High-Def plasma systems. I believe DynaTorch is paying an industrial electronics company to build the control panel for the XLR8. A lot of shielding is involved.

Please explain WHAT it is that makes it high-def capable?

[jimcolt]

HyDefinition plasma, developed by Hypertherm in the mid 1990's is an industrial duty cycle plasma cutting system that dramatically increases the energy density of the plasma arc, by doing so, better edge squareness, a narrower kerf, and superior cut quality (especially on thin materials) are the result as compared to an air plasma torch. Hypertherm's current systems in this category are the HPR130xd, the HPR260xd, the HPR400xd and HPR800xd, with power levels from 130 to 800 amps for cutting from 26 gauge to 6" thick stainless and aluminum (up through 3" on carbon steel). The torches are liquid cooled, use oxygen as the plasma gas for steel and a variety of other gas mixes for stainless and aluminum, and provide for consumable life that can be as much as 10x longer than a typical air plasma system.

Since these plasma systems use a high frequency starting method (for better torch design accuracy) they can only be used on cnc machines that have an industrial hardened control and wiring system. Further, since the plasma cuts faster and with a more accurate arc.....the process requires a cutting machine with superior acceleration (minimum of 40 miligees at all speed ranges) as well as excellent rigidity, zero mechanical backlash, etc. Putting a $30k to $100k plasma system on a machine with less than stellar motion control and acceleration will not provide the best cut quality.

There are also automated versions of these Hypertherm HPRsystems that interface to the cnc controller using an ethernet style interface. With these systems the cut parameters are 100% set through the CAM software, gas flows, height control, cut speeds, even the proper shape for lead ins and lead outs for perfect hole quality is fully automated. To do this the cnc controller must be of an approved design (by Hypertherm) and must allow for special process coding in order to make these functions work.

So...HyDefinition plasma is a whole different world of 100% duty cycle high productivity plasma cutting. It cost a lot more to purchase, requires a much more complex, more accurate, more rigid motion control platform, yet it produces highly accurate parts at a much higher production rate at a lower operating cost as compared to the lower priced air plasma systems.

Jim Colt Hypertherm

Please explain WHAT it is that makes it high-def capable?

[DareBee]

RE: High Def

they can only be used on cnc machines that have an industrial hardened control and wiring system. Further, since the plasma cuts faster and with a more accurate arc.....the process requires a cutting machine with superior acceleration (minimum of 40 miligees at all speed ranges) as well as excellent rigidity, zero mechanical backlash, etc.

Here ^ is the actual answer to the question.

DT may have an available "industrial hardened" control and they may have servos with enough power but there is no chance that my machine is rigid or smooth enough (assuming the new HD has the same mechanics).
I am beefing up structure and changing PT mounts just to improve LD cutting

[chemosavi]

The XLS has GOT to be better in those regards than a plasmacam, eh? What's a PT mount and LD cutting anyways?
"cheap China engraving laser and mount it in place of the scribe."
That sounds kind of like getting an underage mistress, exciting at first but a whole lotta trouble later.

[CNCCajun]

Good to hear for us prospective Dynatorch Owners . . . .

Doesn't SIGMANEST Lite come with your all your tables now?

I know it doesn't nest, but I believe it does everything that is needed to take a DXF to the torch.

Also Leon . . . now that I know you are back and recovered from a week of "fun" in Chicago FABTECH . . . what new creations do you have . . .?

After talking to hundred of people, what knew ideas did you guys come up with you will be adding to Dynatorch Tables?

Steve in Louisiana . . . .

[CNCCajun]

Hello;

Leon, currently or in the near future do see high wattage motors like the Panasonic on the XLS as perhaps an option if that is possible?

Steve in Louisiana

[xjdubber]

Collision detection is a must, I find it strange that fastcut cnc would not offer this. I see they are located even closer to me then they are to you, next time I drive trough there I might just stop in to see what they are all about. Laser guidance and scribing are two options that I personally don't see much benefit in if you think you can use them great, however ive installed a lot of tables that had them for people that thought they would use them. (and trust me they dont)

[CNCCajun]

I agree. It seems a more economical way to mark would be to run a (side attached to torch) spring loaded marker on the whole uncut sheet first. This would mark your parts for the customer. Then run your cut file.

Although it might be useful for bend lines.

The laser might be handy for a newbie like me to see where I am.

Steve

[chemosavi]

Curious about how many inches per minute you can run the scribe at. In their (DT) video it seems pretty slow. Also curious about how high the torch retracts after a cut and if that is adjustable since by my reckoning that up and down stuff consumes a lot of time. Or I could just be patient and wait until my machine arrives.

[chemosavi]

Just got my new XLS 4 x 10 set up with a Hypertherm 85. "Getting to know you, getting to feel good about you" kind of thing. Very impressed for the most part with the hardware and the running software but incredibly unimpressed with the conversion part of the former. DXF to G-code conversion is pretty sad to put it mildly so I can only assume everyone uses something else to accomplish this task, be it Sigmanest or something else. I'll be using my old plasmacam soft to do this since it is light years ahead of the other.
Love to hear any suggestions along those lines anyone might have.

[DareBee]

Mine is not like that.
I just checked and you have to get the XLR8 HF for hi-def

[CNCCajun]

Yes, you are correct . . . . ONLY the XLR8 has the board, components, shielding, etc. . . that make it suitable for a High Definition Plasma Cutter

Mine is not like that.
I just checked and you have to get the XLR8 HF for hi-def

[chemosavi]

On my plasmacan't I've spent quite a bit of time in the last 15 years trying to figure out where to start a cut on an old sheet with lots of old cuts. And sometimes gotten it wrong and driven the torch into an edge and ruined a belt. (collision detection- not problem) Or I'm just trying to slice up a fully cut sheet to get it off the table and done it by hand. With a joystick and the laser I hope to do it easier. If you're cutting a huge project with hundreds of different shapes that get later assembled/welded, yes, you could sit there and label each one once it was cut. Very slow. Or prescribe all the parts before you cut them and probably do it without even watching the machine.
Laser engraving would be nice but after looking at lasers and trying to justify the cost of a machine that could cut semi quickly 1/16" stainless it just doesn't pan out. 200k minimum. Then guys say have it cut for you. Well if you're prototyping a new thingamajig you need to make constant adjustments to whatever you're making and the time delay is just killer when you have a head of steam on a project. I'm blathering now. Onwards...................