[deadlykitten]

hello, i have this in my mind from a while : is it better to be a cnc or a pc programmer ? or what do you like ?

entry salaries in cnc shops, for a novice, are lower then entry salaries for a pc programmer, but as you develop, there is a chance for a better salary in both environments

there are more pc programmers than cnc programmers, and also is easier to learn stuff inside a pc programming shop, because more employees are having similar skills, while, in a cnc shop, maybe there is 1, or more programmers, that don't have time to teach others, etc ... thus, i wish to say that cnc programming seems to have a greater learning curve, thus you have to invest a lot of time to gain some skills, and there are less places where to ask for help, thus specifics are hard to find, and manuals are hard to understand, especially those translated from japanese

i believe that in cnc programing, is a lot of noise, while in pc programming some things are a bit straight-through

i recently heared that there are less taxes on a pc programmer, while the cnc programmer has to pay taxes just like everybody else ...

in both enviroments, after a while, you may get 2 - 3000 / month, with more skills you may reach 5 - 6000 / month, and more then this is possible, but is not common

... and of course, there is one cnc person, across the river, that makes 10000 / month, with extra-hours and working in a shop with heavy equipment, but well, this is not common

so, if i may, what is your opinion about this ? pc or cnc programing ?


one more thing : there are kids-teenagers with crazy pc programming skills, while best cnc programmers are .... i don't know, do they exist ? kindly

[Jim Dawson]

Comparing CNC programming to PC programming is like comparing apples to watermelons. The only real parallel is that they both use math and logic. In my opinion writing G code is actually more complex than PC application programming because of all the things you have to know. G code programming requires a different and more varied skill set. But there is no reason that a person can't do both.

A G code programmer should at least have some machining experience where PC application programmer only needs a good head for logic and math. Both need a good understanding of the language that they are developing in.

I think the reason that PC application programmers make more money is that there is huge $$ in applications that become popular. I think employers don't appreciate the skill set that a CNC programmer needs to have, on the other hand, CNC programmers don't make an employer as near as much money as PC application programmers can.

Taxes? Around here everybody pays taxes based on income.

[he1957]

Agree with Jim.

CNC programmers require knowledge about the physical environment they are programming in as well. Example being jigs, fixtures, hold-downs and such. Applications programmers have a wealth of libraries and tools to assist them and mistakes in code (bugs) do not cause physical damage to the computers they run on as opposed to CNC machine crashes.

CNC machine builders all seem to have their own "custom" codes to some extent as well, ie: although there are some ANSI standards for base G-codes, there are many additional/extension codes that are somewhat unique (or slightly different) between controls makers. This is quite rare in PC programming these days.

Machine shops seems to be rarer because of large scale manufacturing so these jobs are likely becoming more scarce. Numbers of PC programmers keep increasing every year but what software/applications do people need in ever increasing numbers?

Are you planning on a career change?

[hfjbuis]

As a PC programmer i have to spend the same amount of time for programming as for learning new skills and programming languages just to keep up with the fast evolving technologies. The developments for CNC programming aren't changing that fast. I do both and have a lot of fun. I realy can't say one is more complicated then the other. If you have to do something "for the rest of your life" you better choose the job you like the most!

[deadlykitten]

Are you planning on a career change?

no, i still have to learn stuff; there are things that i know i can do, but i didn't do them yet

That gives time to do all those interesting and exciting things that waren't economically to do for the company

if i may, what is your agenda ? maybe it seems "a simple" question, but, i am after veteran tricks & tips, ideas, etc, why did you have to wait so long, why was not it possible to do them while you were hired ?

Because that is time consuming, I made my own Wizard program so now CNC turning is just entering some values from the drawing (PC application part). All together, the fun part, being retired is very time consuming, but never a dull day and still more ideas come up every day!

My wizards basically do small tasks like facing, turning, chamfering, threading, knurling, taper turning, filet turning etc. Combine these small tasks and most parts can be made except those who have "exotic shapes"

so far, i have only messed my head with okuma osp, and after a while i was told by 2 different persons that the number of keystrokes required to do something is too much; this was like a bang for me : what if there is a way to do things faster ? and what things am i delivering too slow ? however, i did not had the oportunity to stand near those guys, so to see exactly what they are reffering to ?!

for a short time, i also had some experience with fanuc / mitsubishi controls, but i did not find something there to boost me i am not saying that other controls are not ok; i simply did not had yet the oportunity to see other things in action, at full potential

so i started boosting my self, in places where i believed that i should insist i know, sounds lame ... most of the tips i found on the cnc zone, from my okuma dealer and from manuals, but i never stood near someone experienced 8hours/day, so to learn things fast, or at least to be told an advice before starting doing something wrong

this is why, i would like to ask you why did you created that wizard, and maybe if you wish to show a sample/video about how are you using it ? kindly

[hfjbuis]

if i may, what is your agenda ? maybe it seems "a simple" question, but, i am after veteran tricks & tips, ideas, etc, why did you have to wait so long, why was not it possible to do them while you were hired ?

@deadlykitten

When I was hired i had to do things because the company would benefit (and so it should be), not because I was curious to try out something new. Now I am retired (at 47) i don't care if it is economically or wise to do because I waste my own time and money.

My agenda is to have fun and grow old on a healthy way.

I created the wizzards because i like doing it and now my lathes can do things, like turning a timing belt pulley cutter, that can't be done manual and are difficult to do in CNC code.

I have send you a pm for the other questions!

[deadlykitten]

retired (at 47)

omg man, arround here this happens at 60-65yo, and even so, most retired guys are still working ... maybe they like what they do, maybe pensions are ( really ) low, maybe both

well, netherlands ? maybe is not so bad

[deadlykitten]

so, you basically took a normal lathe, and you have done all the wirings + software, control, mechanical improvements, etc, so to make it run in cnc mode ? nice

a while ago i also wished to do the same, and i believe that many persons from this kind of area had tried, or wished, or actually deliverd such a thing ...

i don't have experience with electronics, or things like that, thus i can hold a batery in my hand, maybe change a lightbulb, and that's all but one of my friends had, and we got some arduino motors, tried to make them move, but i needed to make it move from delphi, and he was using a different software, and this was a problem, we hit a wall. i wished to build a cnc pantograf ( something like attached ), thus a paralelogram mechanism + cnc ( ratio 10 : 1,etc ) , and this would easy deliver accuracy < 1um. Also the arduino was playing everithing like a casete, and i was looking for feed-hold functions, etc. This custom thing required too much time, and i could not make it work back then ( circa 10 years ago ).

Meanwhile i started my way through the cnc machines, and now most of my time goes into them i try to deliver some custom methods, etc, but developing them is time consuming ... and when i think i got it right, it takes a while, and i have to re-consider well, i just hope to achieve a finish product soon, and "bring it to front", so to be analized by more experienced persons

if i may, about your work, is it all ok ? could you convince also others, so to let you convert their machines ? is it worth it / pleasure ?

[deadlykitten]

hello guys

what i don't like about programming cnc's, is that you can not implement a function as easy as inside a pc program, because available functions are pretty limited, and you have to do a lot of tricks to achieve something; the classical "if goto" inside a cnc seems more then enough in most cases, but when i try to write a more complex cnc soubroutine, and i have to nest a lot of conditional code, is a bit messy i call this "head shift", thus i need to change my perspective between programing on pc or on cnc

in short, after a while, if i need to review a code, i have this problems :
... on pc, codes are longer, so i need time to remember how all those things link toghether
... on cnc, codes are shorter, but comprehensive, and i have to think not only about the code, but also about how the controller behaves when performing that code

when you program on pc, you can imediatly debug it, while on cnc you have to run time-consuming trials, and sometimes is not easy to debug the code, because the controller is not going to tell what goes wrong, so a lot of guessing is required

if on pc i spent time thinking " how to do that ? ", on a cnc is " wtf have i done ? "

employers don't appreciate the skill set that a CNC programmer needs to have

only a few understand, and not all employers have "relevant" machining experience

the reason that PC application programmers make more money is that there is huge $$ in applications that become popular

definetly, things are moving faster in the pc world; evolving standards, etc

there is something interesting : all hardware equipment requires cnc technology to be produced, and here things are going faster & faster, because there is a demand; however, machine tools producers can not incorporate very easy the latest software technology

The developments for CNC programming aren't changing that fast

yup, the developments aren't chaning that fast ... it could be possible, but i guess that it costs

there was a video about why cars producers are not replacing ( soon ) metal chassis with carbon fiber, and the thing was that this move would imediatly lower client's costs, leading to fuel economy, but the car factory would need to wait for years to get back the money that was invested inside this change; a quick benefit for the client may be a huge loss/risk for the vendor/factory

I do both and have a lot of fun

if i may, what are you doing ? are those separate jobs, or you are creating applications for the cnc ? kindly

[hfjbuis]

if i may, what are you doing ? are those separate jobs, or you are creating applications for the cnc ? kindly

I don't do anything any more, I am retired now. That gives time to do all those interesting and exciting things that waren't economically to do for the company. Now I make prototypes (just for me) and to do that I retrofitted my lathes (designing part) and made the parts needed myself (turning and milling part). For CNC turning I program my CNC lathes (CNC part). Because that is time consuming, I made my own Wizard program so now CNC turning is just entering some values from the drawing (PC application part). All together, the fun part, being retired is very time consuming, but never a dull day and still more ideas come up every day!

[he1957]

What do you use to do the PC drawing part and what does your "Wizard" do?

[hfjbuis]

I made drawings using ProGeCad and changed last year to DraftSight.

My wizards basically do small tasks like facing, turning, chamfering, threading, knurling, taper turning, filet turning etc. Combine these small tasks and most parts can be made except those who have "exotic shapes". For me, this works great for prototyping and small series. For large series, where time is money, fusion360 does a better job.