[ibuildstuff4u]

Hello, I'm a mason and have been going to night school to become a machinist. I want to know what most shops require you to have for hand tools. I know every shop is going to be different, but a rough idea would be great so I can start planning for what I need to buy.

Also, do most companies have a tool allowance that they give out every year to help out with the costs?

Thanks for the help,

Dale P.

[SanDiegoCNC]

I guess it really depends on what part of the country you live. In the South, some trade schools require you to own a list of tools to even get past the first semester of school. The one I went to required tools and even one of two different brands of tool boxes. Either a Kennedy or a Gerstner. Our instructor would not allow any other brand into the classroom. It was his opinion that your box says a lot about what kind of machinist you were... a professional or a 'shade tree'. Professional machinists chose one of the two earlier mentioned. Here is what I can remember that was required of us in trade school...

Combination square
Calipers
Micrometer
6 inch 4R scale
Compass and scribe
Box of 3/8 cobalt lathe tool blanks
Bastard file & fine file
6 inch machinist square
Starrett indicator (model 196)
1 inch dial indicator
Mighty mag
Rubber mallet
Metric and standard hex key sets
Standard and Phillips screwdrivers
Set of metric and standard wrenches
1-2-3 blocks
Set of parallels
and a small notebook to log all your daily shop activities.


Now, out here in Southern California, all they require is a warm body that can sit through six months of a local community college CNC course and has the ability to memorize a bunch of G codes. Pretty much they breed idiots out here. Take that for what its worth.

[Andre' B]

and even one of two different brands of tool boxes. Either a Kennedy or a Gerstner. Our instructor would not allow any other brand into the classroom. It was his opinion that your box says a lot about what kind of machinist you were... a professional or a 'shade tree'. Professional machinists chose one of the two earlier mentioned.

I would really like to butt heads with him, I could not care less what kind of box my employes have, just how well they know how to use the tools in it.
The best tool maker I have known built his own box in a high school shop class and used it for the rest of his life.

[diecutter]

I agree with Andre' B. All the tools listed could be kept safely in small second hand mechanic's chest till a high end chest became affordable to the new hire.

Most companies only require a couple measuring tools for a novice machinist; dial calipers, 1' mike, steel rule, etc. Often they specify the make and model to maintain quality and conform to their in house calibration and ISO standards.

I would just put money aside for tools and buy what you need for the job you start.

[bigalexe]

Either a Kennedy or a Gerstner

At that point I would stand and exit the room after asking where I can get my money back. For an analogy it doesn't matter if a mechanic uses Snap-On or Great Neck (Autozone) brand tools, what matters is when the job is done is my Transmission where its supposed to be and working? Honestly for electronics classes at my college a lot of guys use sewing boxes to store their equipment because they are cheaper than toolboxes and just labeled differently, so far I haven't found one circuit that failed because of the name on the toolbox. This kind of stuff really makes me want to punch people.

[SanDiegoCNC]

Guys, I understand your feelings about the tool box requirement. But look at this from a different perspective. Look at it from the POV of an employer. Two guys come in with the same qualifications and one rolls in with a Kennedy and the other with a Craftsman. Which do you think gives a damn about his occupation? Honestly guys... which one?

I have been in many a machine shop. I can usually spot the wankers right off the bat. They're the ones with stickers all over their tool boxes and sometimes have crap glued to them too (toys... yes, toys). Can you imagine the looks their boxes get when military brass walk through the area? So, even if the box doesn't make the man, it sure is indicative about the professionalism of the owner. Anyways... that's my firm opinion.

[christinandavid]

Green for Machinists - Red for Mechanics

DP

[RCaffin]

An engineering ball peen hammer.

A butcher tries to use a ball peen hammer to repair a fob watch.
A master butcher uses a ball peen hammer to successfully repair a fob watch.

Cheers

[DIFF OVER]

An engineering ball peen hammer.

A butcher tries to use a ball peen hammer to repair a fob watch.
A master butcher uses a ball peen hammer to successfully repair a fob watch.

Cheers

Thank you. Best part of my day. I think I need to buy a new hammer in the morning.

[mdmw]

Guys, I understand your feelings about the tool box requirement. But look at this from a different perspective. Look at it from the POV of an employer. Two guys come in with the same qualifications and one rolls in with a Kennedy and the other with a Craftsman. Which do you think gives a damn about his occupation? Honestly guys... which one?

I have been in many a machine shop. I can usually spot the wankers right off the bat. They're the ones with stickers all over their tool boxes and sometimes have crap glued to them too (toys... yes, toys). Can you imagine the looks their boxes get when military brass walk through the area? So, even if the box doesn't make the man, it sure is indicative about the professionalism of the owner. Anyways... that's my firm opinion.

I hand built my rolling cabinet and box. It's far sturdier than any that is mass produced. I also painted it a nice industrial gloss black, and the entire back of the cabinet is a mural-type piece of artwork I took 6 months to paint at home.

Because I built and painted it, and did'nt buy one, does that mean I care less about my job? Or what if, someone does'nt have enough money to be the all mighty brown krinkled Kennedy? Does that mean he does'nt care about his job?

My first box had stickers all over it, but it was my first box I had since I literally was a kid, working in my dad's garage on race cars.

Perhaps, it is'nt so much a lack of professionalism, than an extension of the personality. I am a machinist. Not a machine. If my box would offend someones eyes, perhaps they should stop looking there so intently, and grab some mics, and inspect the part. There, they will find my professionalism, or lack there of. Whichever.



As to the orginal point of the thread, if it was missed- a good set of Torx (T6 up to T25 should do) head wrenches, as alot of tooling uses those type of screws in thier insert clamps.

[SanDiegoCNC]

I hand built my rolling cabinet and box. It's far sturdier than any that is mass produced. I also painted it a nice industrial gloss black, and the entire back of the cabinet is a mural-type piece of artwork I took 6 months to paint at home.

Because I built and painted it, and did'nt buy one, does that mean I care less about my job? Or what if, someone does'nt have enough money to be the all mighty brown krinkled Kennedy? Does that mean he does'nt care about his job?

My first box had stickers all over it, but it was my first box I had since I literally was a kid, working in my dad's garage on race cars.

Perhaps, it is'nt so much a lack of professionalism, than an extension of the personality. I am a machinist. Not a machine. If my box would offend someones eyes, perhaps they should stop looking there so intently, and grab some mics, and inspect the part. There, they will find my professionalism, or lack there of. Whichever.



As to the orginal point of the thread, if it was missed- a good set of Torx (T6 up to T25 should do) head wrenches, as alot of tooling uses those type of screws in thier insert clamps.

Perhaps you should go back and read my original post concerning the tool boxes. I remember saying that Gerstner was an option to a Kennedy. It isn't so much about the name brand of a box as it is about having a cheap (as in crappy) tool box. The same can be said for having cheap Chinese brand measuring tools to check your work with. Whip out a Chinese micrometer in a room full of machinists and what kind of looks would you get? Would they be 'tool snobs'? Or, would they be correct in assuming you weren't serious about your occupation?

[ibuildstuff4u]

Yes I would have been pissed at that instructor too! The Kennedy, Gerstner and Snap On are nice boxes, but I don't think you have to spend that kind of money on a tool box for people to think your serious about your job. I don't buy Carolina or Redwing boots for work and no one accuses me of not taking my job seriously because I only spend $100.00 on a pair. To me it's how you take care of your tools and tool box that says every thing about you. A Craftsman box can last a guy a live time if he takes care of it and will do the same job as any other box out there.

Not that we have the tool box issue out of the way... Lets get back to the original post!


The school gave me a list of tools to buy very similar to the one listed below and I bought all good named products because I plan to have them for years and I also have a small metal working shop in my basement so they come in handy on the weekends too.

I guess what I really want to know is if a guy needs to buy a ton of measuring tools and hand tools other than the common ones that you use all the time. Are you guys required to purchase large sets of micrometers, inside micrometers, or any of the specialty micrometers? I understand every guy is going to have his own test indicator, but are you required to have several different versions for all types of applications as well as coaxal indicators and such? What about hand tools, do you have large sets of wrenches, sockets, and pliers, or do you just need to have a few common ones for every day needs?

I guess what I want to know is if a machinist needs to spend a ton of money on tools, or if a good percentage of them are provided by the company he works for. I see auto mechanics buying tools for work every payday for many years just to get everything that they need to do the job and want to know if Machinists are similar to that.

Thanks, Dale P.

[dertsap]

Chinese brand measuring tools to check your work with. Whip out a Chinese micrometer in a room full of machinists and what kind of looks would you get? Would they be 'tool snobs'? Or, would they be correct in assuming you weren't serious about your occupation?

Are you suggesting that I don't take my work serious because I have my trusty set of chinese calipers in my home depot tool chest along with my Grey roller cabinet ?
At one time guy was judge by what he could do , not by the tool he is swinging or the box he throws it into

Kennedy is over rated , over priced and undersized

[Delw]

Guys, I understand your feelings about the tool box requirement. But look at this from a different perspective. Look at it from the POV of an employer. Two guys come in with the same qualifications and one rolls in with a Kennedy and the other with a Craftsman. Which do you think gives a damn about his occupation? Honestly guys... which one?

I have been in many a machine shop. I can usually spot the wankers right off the bat. They're the ones with stickers all over their tool boxes and sometimes have crap glued to them too (toys... yes, toys). Can you imagine the looks their boxes get when military brass walk through the area? So, even if the box doesn't make the man, it sure is indicative about the professionalism of the owner. Anyways... that's my firm opinion.

Your kidding right? i know guys who bought the biggest badest most expensive Gerstner and kennedy boxs out there and they were still idiots.
A "BOX" has nothing to do with how good a machinest is nor does his tools. its whats in his head.

if he doesnt have anything upstairs he could roll in a pratt and whitney inspection dept and still be a dumbass.

Sounds like the teacher and maybe you have penis envy.

As far as the "BOX" I wouldn't care if the guy showed up with his stuff in a hello kitty lunch box as long as he knew what he was doing and ow to do it.


ibuildstuff4u
dont buy anything until you start. get a good pair of 12" calipers with a dial that reads 0-100 not the dial that reads 0-100-0. Get a 0-3" set of quality mics. a mag base with a .0001 indicator. The most important thing is a CALCULATOR and make sure you know how to use it.
depending on what type of shop you are going to work at will depend on what tools too buy.

Delw

[SanDiegoCNC]

Your kidding right? i know guys who bought the biggest badest most expensive Gerstner and kennedy boxs out there and they were still idiots.
A "BOX" has nothing to do with how good a machinest is nor does his tools. its whats in his head.

if he doesnt have anything upstairs he could roll in a pratt and whitney inspection dept and still be a dumbass.

Sounds like the teacher and maybe you have penis envy.

As far as the "BOX" I wouldn't care if the guy showed up with his stuff in a hello kitty lunch box as long as he knew what he was doing and ow to do it.


Delw

Ok, if you want to talk trash, I can meet you in the gutter. We can sling it out all day long. I've already made the assumption you're one of those guys I step over on my way to the top.

[Delw]

Ok, if you want to talk trash, I can meet you in the gutter. We can sling it out all day long. I've already made the assumption you're one of those guys I step over on my way to the top.

If Money and Status quo toolbox's are your idea at the top then I can say your assuming correctly

Delw

[extanker59]

Guys, I understand your feelings about the tool box requirement. But look at this from a different perspective. Look at it from the POV of an employer. Two guys come in with the same qualifications and one rolls in with a Kennedy and the other with a Craftsman. Which do you think gives a damn about his occupation? Honestly guys... which one?

When have you ever applied for a job with your tool box? Every job I ever had, I applied for it, got it, THEN rolled my toolbox in.
If, after I'm there, they judged me by my tool box rather than my parts and work ethic, I would be glad to leave. Fortunately, employers that I've seen really only care about parts quality and quantity (depending on what you're making it could be quantity over quality).

BTW I have a Kennedy roll away and riser and a Craftsmen upper. I got what I could afford (a used Craftsmen) and slowly added tools and boxes over the years.

Chris

[SanDiegoCNC]

When have you ever applied for a job with your tool box? Every job I ever had, I applied for it, got it, THEN rolled my toolbox in.
If, after I'm there, they judged me by my tool box rather than my parts and work ethic, I would be glad to leave. Fortunately, employers that I've seen really only care about parts quality and quantity (depending on what you're making it could be quantity over quality).

BTW I have a Kennedy roll away and riser and a Craftsmen upper. I got what I could afford (a used Craftsmen) and slowly added tools and boxes over the years.

Chris

Look, I'm really tired of discussing the tool box issue. Personally, you guys can do whatever you like. I'm just telling you how I see the issue and how some employers look at it. I've owned my own CNC machine shop before and whenever someone came by, called, or sent me a resume, one of the first things I'd ask is 'do you own your own tools', 'what brands are they', and 'what kind of box do you own'? To me, that was almost as important as 'where did you learn the machining trade'? I would use those questions as a measurement of how serious a person was about his choice of occupation.

There's nothing wrong with owning a substandard box or tools... to a point. If you're in the trade for any length of time, it is in your best interest to upgrade your tools as quickly as possible. Keep the cheap stuff at home and use the quality stuff at work. Your tools and their upkeep do say a lot about the caliber of machinist you are.

I've seen people in the trade who have 15+ years of experience but still have one of those Craftsman top boxes on top of a Kennedy (no offense). They're usually the guys cranking the handles of a manual lathe or mill. On average, they limit themselves to that sort of work because they're unwilling to step up and learn true CNC. Anything harder than Prototrak scares the hell outta them. That's a shame since CNC is the present and future in many shops.

That leads me to my next biggest pet peeve... guys calling themselves 'machinists' when they've only had a six month course in programming or have less than a few years in the occupation. I've been in the trade 15+ years now and still feel awkward calling myself a 'machinist'. That's not because I lack the skills, mind you, but because I know there's so much more to know out there than I've experienced. Being a machinist is an ongoing learning experience. You'll never know it all... if you're lucky, you'll know a lot about specific aspects of the trade.

[extanker59]

I'm tired of this too.
So instead of a long winded rebuttal, here's my short one:
Nonsense.

[Rekd]

I'm a bit late to the toolbox discussion, but it was so good I couldn't help it... (and don't take this personally, SDCNC, it's not.)

Two guys come in with the same qualifications and one rolls in with a Kennedy and the other with a Craftsman. Which do you think gives a damn about his occupation? Honestly guys... which one?

You don't know by their tool box.

What brand of tool box or tools a machinist uses is completely and utterly irrelivant. Period. Anyone who would judge a machinist by his toolbox is nothing short of ignorant.

Not an insult, but you have NO WAY of knowing anything about anyone by the way they dress, what they drive, or where they put there tools.

You want to know about a machinist? Ask him how he'd go about machining something, or dialing something in, or setting something up. I've known dozens of so-called machinists that had awesome tool boxes and great tools, but didn't know how to use them.

I'm just telling you how I see the issue and how some employers look at it. I've owned my own CNC machine shop before and whenever someone came by, called, or sent me a resume, one of the first things I'd ask is 'do you own your own tools', 'what brands are they', and 'what kind of box do you own'? To me, that was almost as important as 'where did you learn the machining trade'? I would use those questions as a measurement of how serious a person was about his choice of occupation.

I've NEVER seen an employer that gave two craps about what tool box they had their stuff in. Not one. If there really are employers out there that do, I'm sure I wouldn't work for them because that tells me more about them than my toolbox tells them about me.

And "where" you learned the trade has just as little to do with the quality of the machinist as his box.