[Tormachmaster]

I am searching for a smaller cnc lathe i regret buying a huge clausing my power source barley makes it and it is just taking too much room up in my shop top that off by I am sure that I will loose my butt selling it anyway Tormach here is the first beg for you to make one soon real soon I looked at 12/36 and 13/40 cnc converted lathes around 7500 they look pretty good and I am sure will do the job but i would rathe see all Tormach names on my equipment

[rowbare]

From the time machine: Tormach Lathe Developments « Milling Around

bob

[R.DesJardin]

Yes,
They did post up about one, asking for opinions, metioned slant bed design with a tool carousel. I would bet it won't be 12x36 though. We have a couple "big" Hardinge CNC lathes and they might have a big swing but no way 36" length.
I beg too, maybe for late summer, early fall so I can save up some coin.
Maybe 6" x 12"-20". Don't want the machine to be too big or expensive.
The Haas TL-1 is big but not what I want.
We have a 20yr old Servo/Hardinge CNC lathe, it has an air piston bar feeder that wil feed 3/4" IIRC. It is actually a polishing Lathe with CNC contols on it. Something that size with a Tool Carousel would be ideal. It uses 5C collets but you can still mount a chuck on it just like a Hardinge Toolroom Lathe.
If it capable of having the bar feeder, it wouldn't be of much use to me. I want something that can easily make small parts with out tool changes.

[dbrija]

Forgive me for posting this in the Tormach forum, but see NL-150 Shop Series CNC Lathe

Right along the lines of what Tormach is working on.

Personally I'm waiting for the Tormach version, using the Duality as a stop gap until it comes out.

[Don Clement]

Forgive me for posting this in the Tormach forum, but see NL-150 Shop Series CNC Lathe

Right along the lines of what Tormach is working on.

Personally I'm waiting for the Tormach version, using the Duality as a stop gap until it comes out.

No thanks on the NL-150... MT4 taper and 1” bore means no 5C capability. I’ll wait for Tormach if there is going to be 5C capability on the Tormach lathe. Otherwise a Microkinetics CNC conversion for my 12x36 manual lathe or Haas TL1. Cataract (Hardinge) had it right with 5C on all their lathes way back. Work holding is very important on any lathe and also the mill. In addition 5C collets are cheap, readily available, come in round, pot chuck type, hex , internally expanding, and emergency collets which can be user modified (such as the brass threaded one I just made) Real lathes like Hardinge have 5C capability. Here's a vintage Cataract 9" with 5C capability http://www.metalworking.com/RCM-gall...Jim/Nshop5.jpg BTW I also use 5C collet holding on my Tormach PCNC. Also a cam lock or tapered type spindle and NOT a threaded spindle so that one could turn with the spindle running CW.

Don

[Tormachmaster]

Forgive me for posting this in the Tormach forum, but see NL-150 Shop Series CNC Lathe

Right along the lines of what Tormach is working on.

Personally I'm waiting for the Tormach version, using the Duality as a stop gap until it comes out.

That is pretty expensive for what you get I see alot of machines for a few thousand that are stepper but also can be used manually.

[twocik]

"That is pretty expensive for what you get I see alot of machines for a few thousand that are stepper but also can be used manually."


I agree !


BTW here's a cool DIY to check out, drool .....

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1IDHIcyHLY"]YouTube - Scratch built CNC Slantbed Lathe - RUNNING![/nomedia]

[Tormachmaster]

"That is pretty expensive for what you get I see alot of machines for a few thousand that are stepper but also can be used manually."


I agree !


BTW here's a cool DIY to check out, drool .....

YouTube - Scratch built CNC Slantbed Lathe - RUNNING!

Very nice job would like to see that one produced.

[Don Clement]

Gee for the price of the NL-150 one could get a Microkinetics 13"x40" CNC lathe with a six position turret. CNC Lathe Model 1236 - lathe, lathes, turning machine, turning machines - Also 5C collet capable and camlock spindle. Still waiting for what Tormach will offer in a CNC lathe though.

Don

[pete from TN]

I am right with ya on the 12x36 cnc lathe... I have a 12x36 asian lathe and it has been one of the better machine I have purchased so far. It is not a monster but can cut larger parts with relative ease. It also has the D1-4 camlock headstock and that is really nice. I have yet to get a 5c collet setup for it but that is in the cards at some point. I have often thought of converting it to cnc myself as I think it would be capable of some good work. I only have issues with it when I try to take a deep cut on the outer edge of a large workpiece. It does not have enough power to hog when you have a large piece in there. I may put a larger motor on it and setup a vfd for it. I think it would be a great little lathe and I had never seen that toolchanger that microkinetics makes for it before. That would make for a really cool lathe for sure... peace...

Pete

[Don Clement]

Pete,

I have been using a manual 12x36 import lathe for about 10 years and am looking perhaps to convert it to CNC. I added a Royal pneumatic 5C closer that works extremely well. Also I make use of the D1-4 camlock spindle for things like threading using the reverse helix method where the spindle runs in reverse and the feed is towards the tailstock so I can thread internal RH threads at very high speed up from a blind shoulder. A threaded spindle will not allow using the reverse helix threading because one cannot run the spindle backwards with a threaded mounted chuck. Because the lathe has an imperial leadscrew metric threading becomes a PITA and one can't use the threading dial or disengage the half-nut. So CNC conversion has it's attraction for me in threading metric or imperial interchangeably and since I could use all of my existing tooling. Also have a KDK QC toolpost with about 20 bars that make changing tools as fast as using the TTS system with the PDB on my PCNC mill.
Lately the existing 1.5hp single phase motor has begun to not start always and has not much power for heavier cuts ( I did replace the start and run caps) so I am seriously thinking of upgrading to a VFD controlled 3-phase motor. The VFD will also give better surface finish with it's turbine-like smoothness. I am still waiting for what Tormach has to offer though in a CNC lathe.

Don

I think it would be capable of some good work. I only have issues with it when I try to take a deep cut on the outer edge of a large workpiece. It does not have enough power to hog when you have a large piece in there. I may put a larger motor on it and setup a vfd for it. I think it would be a great little lathe and I had never seen that toolchanger that microkinetics makes for it before. That would make for a really cool lathe for sure... peace...

Pete

[twocik]

Don nice find, looks very promising, but not enough information on the product. They differently need to show how the hexagons were cut, more video in higher def., but the accessories are awesome ! The 4 tool ATP is a great idea !!

[Tormachmaster]

Gee for the price of the NL-150 one could get a Microkinetics 13"x40" CNC lathe with a six position turret. CNC Lathe Model 1236 - lathe, lathes, turning machine, turning machines - Also 5C collet capable and camlock spindle. Still waiting for what Tormach will offer in a CNC lathe though.

Don

This is what I am looking at.

[Don Clement]

I look upon my collection of existing lathe tools on existing KDK bars similar to my collection of TTS tools in that I don't have an ATC but with the power draw bar comes very close. The KDK QCTP works as good on the lathe as the PDB does on the Tormach mill with TTS toolholders. One reason why I would consider a CNC conversion or a CNC lathe with similar capabilities which would include a tailstock and follow rest. I don't really see threading long slender SS leadscrews as shown by threadmilling on the Tormach PCNC. An advantage of CNC would be to eliminate the compound slide. Threading could be done by alternating cutting the flanks of full profile threading tool. This is certainly a lathe job.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...Threading2.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...Threading1.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...Threading3.jpg

Here are some of the existing tools for my KDK QCTP. There are quite a few more that are not shown.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...5inBBKDK5B.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...inBBKDK155.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...gbarKDK101.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...TKDK156bar.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1.../BoringBar.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...larCutter2.jpg

The DoGrip cutoff tool really works great.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...KDK1010Bar.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...DoGripChip.jpg

Here are some pictures of my Val-Cut trepanning tool for my lathe. The last shows a part that has been trepanned.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1.../ValCutKDK.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...tKDK151Bar.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...panning1-1.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...repanning2.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...repanning3.jpg

[dbrija]

Gee for the price of the NL-150 one could get a Microkinetics 13"x40" CNC lathe with a six position turret. CNC Lathe Model 1236 - lathe, lathes, turning machine, turning machines - Also 5C collet capable and camlock spindle. Still waiting for what Tormach will offer in a CNC lathe though.

Don

I should have looked at the Microkinetics before I opened my mouth. No comparison. NL what?

[pete from TN]

Hey man that is a nice unit. Never seen one of those before. I like that it is low profile and beefy. How do you set center height on those tools? I do not see an adjustment knurled nut on top like the aloris...

I would think that if you went and did a conversion on that lathe you could loose the compound and just put a large steel lift block under that nice toolpost for more rigidity... That would make for some nice CNC lathe man...,.thanks for posting the pics.. I take it that holder is expensive>>>? peace

Pete

[MadMax]

After being disappointed with a Syil C6 I have moved onto used industrial CNC heavy machinery. Certainly not a reasonable decision for a desktop purchase (unless your desktop can support a ton or two), but a reasonable decision considering the cost of used machinery and the significant capabilities you get when you buy something serious.

With $9k you could get a pretty decent used Hardinge lathe with an Accuslide CNC upgrade or even a CHNC with a lot of life left in it and a 12 position tool changer that moves pretty quick. It would be 5c collet ready (damn I think those guys set the standard on those) and it'd be ready to go with gang tools. Normally, one wouldn't expect new equipment makers to have to compete with the used market, but with so many used machines going out at such good prices, it's only a matter of time for hobbyists to start looking at comparably priced gear that sets high standards for the iron. Now I almost always buy used industrial gear over new hobby grade gear.

I think a good price point for a hobby CNC lathe would be between $4-$6k. That would be a bit too low for anything that would still be worth buying in the used industrial market. Items like tool turrets should be optional because they would add significant cost that most users wouldn't really need. In my mind it makes the most sense to have a wedge style toolpost on a desktop sized lathe. Tool turrets are great for higher production, but they're relatively crashy. A turret bristling with chucks and boring bars is pretty prone to a crash compared to a wedge toolpost which holds a single tool holder. Using programs calls to instruct the operator to call a preset tool isn't too bad. Besides, without an automatic drawbar and a bar feeder, how much production can you do on a desktop? You could jury rig a spring loaded bar pusher and spin a pneumatic chuck, but the pneumatic chuck adds cost to the base build again.

It seems to me that a reasonable build for the hobbyist would be fairly small. Perhaps a swing of up to 8" with a 5C collet (1.625" bar pass would be great!). Center to center spacing not longer than 18" and a lot of X travel to facilitate the use of gang tools. Gang tools are pretty easy to set up, and if you offer a good spindle encoder package with a spindle brake, you could even offer live tooling options which could be pretty cool. The user could easily homebrew low power live tools by bolting in a high torque Foredom handpiece. All we would need is a relay board and some M codes. The difficult stuff is a spindle encoder and a spindle brake.

Turrets are great, but they're actually a pain in the arse for prototyping. 6 stations wouldn't be able to hold all of the tools I commonly use on my manual lathe. I could get a lot more use from having 10 tools touched in on wedge blocks and changing them manually than I would with 6 tools in a turret that I would have to keep changing out and touching in (and setting height) for the usual sub 20pc prototyping jobs I'd do on a benchtop. For light production, gang tools typically index faster than non production turrets. Also, if you have a set of frequently run jobs and you don't mind spending some cash on very fast setups, you can change out gang tool plates so the individual tools can rapidly be changed out by bolting them to the same plate. It's kind of awesome being able to thunk down a dowel pinned plate with 6 tools already in the CNC tool crib. Try that with a turret.

[Tormachmaster]

After being disappointed with a Syil C6 I have moved onto used industrial CNC heavy machinery. Certainly not a reasonable decision for a desktop purchase (unless your desktop can support a ton or two), but a reasonable decision considering the cost of used machinery and the significant capabilities you get when you buy something serious.

With $9k you could get a pretty decent used Hardinge lathe with an Accuslide CNC upgrade or even a CHNC with a lot of life left in it and a 12 position tool changer that moves pretty quick. It would be 5c collet ready (damn I think those guys set the standard on those) and it'd be ready to go with gang tools. Normally, one wouldn't expect new equipment makers to have to compete with the used market, but with so many used machines going out at such good prices, it's only a matter of time for hobbyists to start looking at comparably priced gear that sets high standards for the iron. Now I almost always buy used industrial gear over new hobby grade gear.

I think a good price point for a hobby CNC lathe would be between $4-$6k. That would be a bit too low for anything that would still be worth buying in the used industrial market. Items like tool turrets should be optional because they would add significant cost that most users wouldn't really need. In my mind it makes the most sense to have a wedge style toolpost on a desktop sized lathe. Tool turrets are great for higher production, but they're relatively crashy. A turret bristling with chucks and boring bars is pretty prone to a crash compared to a wedge toolpost which holds a single tool holder. Using programs calls to instruct the operator to call a preset tool isn't too bad. Besides, without an automatic drawbar and a bar feeder, how much production can you do on a desktop? You could jury rig a spring loaded bar pusher and spin a pneumatic chuck, but the pneumatic chuck adds cost to the base build again.

It seems to me that a reasonable build for the hobbyist would be fairly small. Perhaps a swing of up to 8" with a 5C collet (1.625" bar pass would be great!). Center to center spacing not longer than 18" and a lot of X travel to facilitate the use of gang tools. Gang tools are pretty easy to set up, and if you offer a good spindle encoder package with a spindle brake, you could even offer live tooling options which could be pretty cool. The user could easily homebrew low power live tools by bolting in a high torque Foredom handpiece. All we would need is a relay board and some M codes. The difficult stuff is a spindle encoder and a spindle brake.

Turrets are great, but they're actually a pain in the arse for prototyping. 6 stations wouldn't be able to hold all of the tools I commonly use on my manual lathe. I could get a lot more use from having 10 tools touched in on wedge blocks and changing them manually than I would with 6 tools in a turret that I would have to keep changing out and touching in (and setting height) for the usual sub 20pc prototyping jobs I'd do on a benchtop. For light production, gang tools typically index faster than non production turrets. Also, if you have a set of frequently run jobs and you don't mind spending some cash on very fast setups, you can change out gang tool plates so the individual tools can rapidly be changed out by bolting them to the same plate. It's kind of awesome being able to thunk down a dowel pinned plate with 6 tools already in the CNC tool crib. Try that with a turret.

The reason I am looking at the smaller hobby microkinetics cnc converted lathe is it is for my very small shop at home just a shop to do prototype projects i do have access to many cnc machines.

[Don Clement]

MM:

I currently do limited production on my manual lathe with KDK QCTP and Tormach PCNC with PDB using TTS toolholders. On the Tormach all the tools are preset, heights entered ino a tool table in MachIII , then the program instructs the operator (me) when to change tools. That works as good for me in limited production as an full blown ATC really would. With the Tormach and jog shuttle pendant the Tormach can also be used as a manual mill. Same goes in using the manual lathe with the KDK QCTP except I have the offsets entered into a tool table of the Newall DRO for each toolholder. That’s why each of my KDK bars is numbered. BTW, like the TTS toolholders on the Tormach, a lathe with the numbered KDK bars, I only touch off for one tool and the other tool offsets come from the Newall DRO tool table. I am sure this system could be ported over to CNC lathe for limited production work. Also having manual capability is a must for me in any CNC lathe. That’s why I like the Haas TL1 because it can also be used manually and the KDK QCTP would transfer.
Touching off on the lathe is easy using the 1 mil gummed paper shims. BTW The Braustein Bros. http://tinyurl.com/4zbv5jg make 1 mil gummed paper shims that come in a 2.7" x 1.4" handy pack ;-)

Max you are right, the 5C standard was set by Hardinge which acquired the rights to the Cataract range of Precision bench lathes formerly produced by the Cataract Tool and Bicycle Company (named after the waterfalls visible from the factory grounds) Thus the C (Cataract)in 5C.… or was the C really for Chicago where Hardinge began or perhaps Catalina island and William Wrigley, Jr. Cubs baseball.

Don

Using programs calls to instruct the operator to call a preset tool isn't too bad.
Turrets are great, but they're actually a pain in the arse for prototyping. 6 stations wouldn't be able to hold all of the tools I commonly use on my manual lathe. I could get a lot more use from having 10 tools touched in on wedge blocks and changing them manually than I would with 6 tools in a turret that I would have to keep changing out and touching in (and setting height) for the usual sub 20pc prototyping jobs I'd do on a benchtop. For light production, gang tools typically index faster than non production turrets. Also, if you have a set of frequently run jobs and you don't mind spending some cash on very fast setups, you can change out gang tool plates so the individual tools can rapidly be changed out by bolting them to the same plate. It's kind of awesome being able to thunk down a dowel pinned plate with 6 tools already in the CNC tool crib. Try that with a turret.

[pete from TN]

All good medicine here for what a very high quality affordable cnc lathe should be. I just hope for their sakes Tormach is listening. I agree that while a turret toolchanger is a very cool thing, watching videos of machines that have them I have often thought of how easy it would be to crash one into the chuck with a drill bit or longer tool while the shorter tool is doing the work. Yes I think a gang tool slide would be much more desireable for this and the idea of a removeable quick change gang tool plate would be really cool. Just has to be enough travel in the cross axis to support the use of one. I also think that a tailstock with enought travel to reach over it would be a requirement. My 12x36 has some good tailstock ram travel but it never seems enough and I am always fidgeting with the apron to get the tool where I need it when the tailstock is supporting. These ideas and I am sure many more would result in a very nice cnc lathe. The idea of a toolchanger equipped slant bed lathe is very cool of course but I think for the majority of users out there a more typical lathe setup with well covered ballscrews and the aforementioned features would be the ticket.

I also agree about the idea of a used commercial machine being a viable option. There are TONS of quality used machines out there right now for a song and when you look at what a reasonably equipped Tormach setup is going for you are VERY close to getting into a nice used VMC that has WAY more speed, capabilities, accuracy, power, and of course at least a semi enclosed to a fully enclosed mill with full flood coolant. The CNC lathe is no different, there are lots of good used lathes from the early to mid 90's out there that can run circles around even the best CNC hobby lathes for less money than what a new hobby lathe would cost. I really do not understand where these hobby machines are worth near or above ten grand honestly. I built my RF45cnc mill for a helluva lot less than that and while it is not a new CNC hobby mill it sure works like one. If and when I upgrade this mill or get a CNC lathe it will most likely be a used CNC commercial unit. They just have more bang for the buck.. OF course the flip side of all this is you have to deal with parts availability, parts cost, and the idea that you might get a worn out or damaged machine. Buyer beware here I guess and use your due dilligence in finding out what is a good machine from a worn out piece of junk. JMHO... peace

Pete