[timbochung]

Hi,

I have finally connected my system (see pic)but am unable to make the motors move. Not sure what to do next...

- I've configured channels (0,1,2) to outputs (8,10,12) respectively (see pic); All other setting are identical otherwise; The channels have each been downloaded manually to the board

- In the step response screen, I can get the motors to do a tiny jog (<0.5sec) but unable to do any other movements otherwise (see pic)

- No success in using the jog function in KmotionCNC either.

Help!

Thanks,
Tim

P.S. I've uploaded my I/O map from a previous post

[TomKerekes]

Hi Tim,

Use the "Move" button instead of the "Step" button on the Step Response Screen for Steppers. A step will be too high of a frequency and the motors will just stall if the driver even sees the pulses.

I see the C10 board needs an Enable signal to be wired to +5V did you do this?

If you power cycle KFLOP so nothing is configured you could go to the Digital IO screen and set IO8 as an output and toggle it. You could then check if the motor steps and use a volt meter at various places to see where the signal toggles.

Regards

[timbochung]

Thanks for the reply Tom.
- The C10 ENABLE is powered up (took me awhile to figure that one out...)
- I did do a voltmeter reading to confirm a signal (around 5v). I went as far as the pins on the c10 board to make sure that my KFLOP DIO was outputting to the correct C10 pin
- KMotion settings look alright?
- I guess my next step is to examine the wiring between the c10 board and drivers and then between drivers and motors

Tim

[TomKerekes]

Hi Tim,

I isn't clear if you understood or performed the steps in the previous email.

When you toggle the Step Output in KFLOP's Digital IO Screen. Does the voltage on the pin go High (>3V) and Low (<0.4V)? Does the motor make one tiny Step?

Regards

[timbochung]

I did an I/O check where I would toggle a KFLOP DIO and then check if the right pin had voltage. I've traced/checked the reading at several points, ending at the c10 board
- I enabled a DIO
- Checked if the right pin on the board had voltage
- Checked if the right pin on the cable had voltage
- Checked if the right output on the C10 board

I did this check for all of the DIO I setup so I'm pretty sure everything between the KFLOP up to the output on the C10 is solid.

From the C10 board to drive and drive to motor, something might be fishy but I'm not sure where.

Since I'm pretty much a newbie to KFLOP I would like to confirm that with my current channel configuration in KMotion, and if all the hardware was wired properly, should I be able to press move or jog and see the motors move? Also, should the jog buttons in KMotion CNC be working as well?

Tim

[TomKerekes]

Hi Tim,

If the signal on the Step Input the C10 board is toggling but the motor is not physically stepping then the problem is further down the line.

You didn't tell us the voltage levels.

Are you sure the motor is not stepping? It will be a small amount. But after a few steps it should be noticable.

Are the motors energized? If so they will be hard to turn (relative to power off) and getting warm.

If Configured as Step/Dir and OuputChan0=8 and no Limit Switch options the Step Response Screen "Move" button should move the motor. Don't use KMotionCNC at this point.

Regards

[timbochung]

Hi Tom,

I did another voltage check and when I toggle DI/O #8 and check C10 pin #2 - the reading goes from 0V -> 4.84V.

The motors are powered up because I have observed the motors move on occasion.

This is so weird - just tried the move button on Channel 2 and got a motor to move. Changed channels to check the other axis - no go, then came back to Channel 2 and no go

Went back to the DIO page to check the voltage readings again and wasn't able to toggle the state of the DIO8. Had to unpower board to be able toggle again.

[timbochung]

So I cycled the power the KFLOP board to be able to toggle the DIO - this time I was able to get a motor to move (sorta). Movement is very strange and erratic.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p567sq7sao...ment_sorta.wmv

[TomKerekes]

Hi Tim,

If you are getting 0 - 4.8V Toggle on the Step signal then the wiring is ok up to that point. You forgot to tell us if the motor steps when you toggle the bit.

The reason you can not toggle the IO from the digital IO screen after you try a move is because when you configure a Step/Direction Generator to drive the pins it takes over control of the pins. The simplest thing to do is as you discovered cycle power to return to the default state.

You didn't post your settings and I cant read the screen in your video, but it sounds like you are just trying to move way too fast with way too much acceleration so the motor stalls.

Try setting the Velocity to 1000 steps/second with acceleration of 4000 steps/sec^2 and Jerk of 1000000 steps/sec^3

Regards
TK

[timbochung]

Hi Tom,

Still no luck. I called my motor and driver vendor and had me do the test where I spin the motor shaft when it is unpowered and then try to do the same thing when powered. Since I wasn't able to move the shaft - he says that the motors are wired correctly. Verified my dip switch settings from other threads on the forum so they should be alright.

I've traced the signal from my C10 board all the way to the driver connection and I do see a change of 5V when I toggle my DIO #8 in Kmotion.

In theory, when I ask Kmotion to step or move - it should be sending a pulse to my C10 board which in turn will send a pulse of 5V to the driver. How fast is this pulse - would I be able to see it on my voltmeter?

BTW, I also tried the settings for the VAJ and still no success

Thanks,
Tim

[timbochung]

Also, do I need to upload or flash the KFLOP board each time I powerup? I have no scripts or programs whatsoever at the moment...

[TomKerekes]

Hi Tim,

What kind of Stepper Drives do you have and where is a link to their specifications?

But regardless, if you toggle the Step Pin and +5V and 0V is toggling on the input to the drive. The motor should make one single micro step each toggle cycle. Do you understand what one micro step is? It will be a very small amount. But if you do it a few times you should see and feel it. I have asked this before. I'm not clear on your answer.

Regards

[dirtdigger257]

// address of 6 bit pulse length 0-63= # 16.666MHz clocks,
// bit6 muxes generators 4-7 from JP7 to JP4 and JP6,
// bit7 reverses polarity

// Geckos work well with this and "open collector" outputs

FPGA(STEP_PULSE_LENGTH_ADD) = 0x80 + 63; // set inverted and to max 4us

will i have to use jp4 and 6 or just keep using jp7 and if i do have to change it what pins will the generator output it to. i see i am supposed to delete 0x80+ i'll try this and see what happens

[TomKerekes]

Hi dirtdigger257,

Don't understand what you are trying to do. But see the Step/Dir Generator documentation here.

Regards

[dirtdigger257]

if i run the code bellow does it change the pins it out puts it to. example for z axis jp7 pins 19 and 20 i/o 12, 13 change it to i/o bit 32 and 33 i thought those were only 3.3v capable. and what is mux 0 and mux 1?

[TomKerekes]

I don't see the code you say is "below".

BTW The Z axis is not necessarily the Step/Dir Generator #2 even though that is often a logical choice. The are two levels of configuration: the DefineCoordSystem can map any Gcode Axis to any KFLOP Axis Channel. And a KFLOP Axis Channel can be configured to use any Step/Dir generator.

But yes the Mux=1 option will move Step/Dir generators 4-7 from JP7 to JP4 and JP6 as you describe for one of them.

Read the description of how to control the Mux option in the link I sent under the heading:
Global Register sets Pulse Width, Polarity, Multiplexor

All of KFLOP's IO are 3.3V. But can be used to sink signals to ground. This applies +5V to an opto if the anode of the opto is connected to +5V. To turn off the opto the output can float (open collector mode) to about 3.8V. Because IO 32 and 33 have 150 ohm pull down resistors open collector mode can not be used with those IO. However IO 34 and 35 can be used in Open collector mode.

What type of signals does your Step/Dir drives require and what are the timing requirements? KFLOP can only be set to a maximum Step Pulse of 3.78us with a maximum of 4us Direction setup time.

Regards

[dirtdigger257]

command type pul/rir or cw/ccw active edge rising or falling direction def high or low. mine is set default because i dont have the cable to tune them.
Default setting is PUL/DIR mode and rising edge active (NPN, and PNP control signal is on the contrary).
The KL-5056D can accept differential and single-ended inputs (including open-collector and PNP
output). The KL-5056D has 3 optically isolated logic inputs which are located on connector P1 to
accept line driver control signals. These inputs are isolated to minimize or eliminate electrical noises
coupled onto the drive control signals. Recommend use line driver control signals to increase noise
immunity of the driver in interference environments.
I cant find the step pulse requirements. i have kflop set 5v open collector i'am not sure what pnp mode is or if kflop supports it. i was thinking of using a pig tail from the rj45 to the rj45 of the drive and wire it accordingly. i am using a c10 board right now but might pick up a 26 pin bob from winfordhopefully i can get this to work because my linear encoder should be here monday and a hole new head ache will begin.

[TomKerekes]

Hi dirtdigger257,

I Googled and found this:

http://www.kelinginc.net/KL-5056D.pdf

Unfortunately those drives require a 5us Direction Setup time which KFLOP doesn't support (max=4us). See page 3. Not having enough direction setup time may cause the drive to step in the wrong direction sometimes whenever the direction reverses. Most drives don't have such a long setup requirement. We may change KFLOP in the future to support these type of drives as they are becoming very popular. But I can't say when or even if we will do this. One workaround is to make a circuit to delay the step pulses by 1us (Resistor + Capacitor + buffer chip).

I'm not sure if you are willing or capable of going through the extra difficulty. If you want to return your KFLOP we can arrange that.

Regards

[dirtdigger257]

Ok, thanks. I did get all three axises working moving the proper amount and in the right direction after adding the extra setup up time. But now when i try to run with limit switches it acts funny, crunchy sounding. There is also a 7sec delay from when i adjust feedrate or hit the stop button witch displays a message unexpected motion buffer starved. I'am running kmotion 430 and mach3 R3.043.066 versions. i turned sticky keys off and it didn't help. kmotioncnc wont work on my laptop but worked on an older computer i was using Thanks for all the help

[TomKerekes]

Hi dirtdigger257,

funny, crunchy sounding

No idea what that might be. Any issue with the limits to KFLOP I would expect to just stop/disable the axis. I would not expect a change in motion smoothness. Possibly a noise/grounding problem affecting the step signals to the drives?

There is also a 7sec delay from when i adjust feedrate or hit the stop button witch displays a message unexpected motion buffer starved. I'am running kmotion 430 and mach3 R3.043.066 versions.

In later Versions of Mach3 (like R3.043.066) the message to plugins for Stop seems to have been changed. Our later Test Versions should handle the new (and old) Stop messages and Stop immediately. Please try our latest Test Version here. FeedRate override will have a delayed effect due to buffering. You can minimize it by reducing the Windows Buffer Time in the Dynomotion Plugin Configuration.

KMotionCNC should work on any Laptop. But I thought you are using Mach3?

Regards