[brccrb]

Originally posted back in April asking if anyone was interested in a 6-axis Double Closed Loop Controller (we had been using the system privately since Summer 2007). The response was great!

We have been humbled by the wealth of knowledge and wisdom. "Kind Thanks" to everyone that has made this possible.

Many of you have asked privately when the CNC Brain would be available. So, "Now" is a good answer.

www.CNCBrain.com

CNC Brain - $499
- 6 axis Double Closed Loop
- Automatic Error Recovery
- Runs under Windows via USB
- Includes software w/SDK/Source Code

You can see the ad here on CNC Zone.

[turmite]

BC I for one want to commend you on a great new product. I cannot wait to hook mine up and never again have to guess if my machine position is correct. Thanks ahead of time.

Mike

[David Bord]

Interesting! Great videos BTW. So would this be a replacement for Mach3 and a breakout board, or would it also replace something like a Gecko drive?

Is this device targeted at the CNC hobbiest? It appears that the benifit is in self correction like with Servo systems. Is the system designed to work with Servos only, or does it also work with Steppers and encoders also?

If someone were to setup a CNC machine(router, mill, plasma, lathe) what do you need for motion control outside of this device? Obviously motors and encoders, power supply, and Im guessing drives such as Gecko.

How easy is the system to configure on a retrofit or new machine?

David

[brccrb]

David,
Great questions! And thank you for your kind comments.

The CNC Brain works with steppers and servos (keep in mind it is still in Beta form until everyone agrees on a "production" version ... same hardware, just updated firmware/software).

The Brain dynamically corrects errors as they occur (as you saw in the video, which we had to slow the machine way down so you could hear it, otherwise is reacts so quickly) and is intended to be used by everyone (Hobbyist, OEM, weekend warriors, production shops alike

It tends to surprise people when they lean against a machine and the motors tick to compensate for the slightest flex they may be causing. When moving to closed or double closed loop, all that mess with skipping caused by harmonics and lost position just melts away ... THAT is what I like!!!

One of the interesting things the Brain can do is run mixed mode. Any axis can be either Open Loop, Closed Loop, or Double Closed Loop, and stepper or servo, in any combination. This lets you "grow" your machine to where you want it to be ... add as you want ... according to what you have available.

As for what you need, you've got it exactly. The CNC Brain is a motion control system (a super computer in a box). It takes G-Code from the PC, tells the drivers (such as Gecko ... which are great BTW) what to do, and takes input from sensors to correct in near real-time.

As for a "Mach replacement", I don't know if it would be called that. Mach is a good product and everyone is familiar with it (let's be honest, they ARE the market). There was some talk with Brian (a really great guy) at ArtSoft back in March to create a plugin, but that is up to him and his schedule.

The Control Panel GUI (which comes free with the CNC Brain) does come with the source code (yes, the whole program, source files, and project ... written in VB.Net ... even has a diagram in the project to show how the program is put together). It is built in layers that let it be changed very quickly and easily.

The idea is to let anyone create whatever they want with the stability of a dedicated motion control engine, without having to start from scratch.

The SDK simplifies the Brain interface. You say, "move these 6 axis to here", it figures out how to do it. And it can be used on more than just machining: robotics, pick-n-place, machine automation, etc..

As for easy setup, that is the idea (within reason .. darn wires . Check out the video about the I/O Tab (one of my pet peaves)

One other addictive thing is the Mouse Jog. Toward the end, past editing the "picture" jog buttons ... that Mouse wheel becomes usable!

Again, thanks for the feedback!!! Your questions, comments, and suggestions are always welcome. Any gift of knowledge or wisdom you wish to pass along will be most humbly, and thankfully, accepted.


s/Bruce

[turmite]

I thought it might be worthwhile to show post # 4 for those that seem to be maybe a little impatient. Please read the very first paragraph slowly! It makes everything else said on this long thread much more clear!

cncor I am a customer, but I have not even received my unit yet. I paid Bruce and told him to wait till he got whatever bugs worked out that he found, and until I could find a solution for long linear scales since I have a machine that requires a 12ft scale on one axis, and an 8ft scale on another, before sending the Brain. Yesterday morning at 2:45am, I determined it was time and I called him yesterday asking him to ship. At 2:45 yesterday morning, my open loop machine lost position and may well have cost me a very inexpensive job due to not being able to make a deadline.

rokag3 sorry you don't want to wait, but you can always pick up a Fagor 8055controller that will give you 7 axis, for only $15,200. I am not trying to be a pain for you or anyone, but that is the reason we wait!

Mike

David,
Great questions! And thank you for your kind comments.

The CNC Brain works with steppers and servos (keep in mind it is still in Beta form until everyone agrees on a "production" version ... same hardware, just updated firmware/software).

The Brain dynamically corrects errors as they occur (as you saw in the video, which we had to slow the machine way down so you could hear it, otherwise is reacts so quickly) and is intended to be used by everyone (Hobbyist, OEM, weekend warriors, production shops alike

It tends to surprise people when they lean against a machine and the motors tick to compensate for the slightest flex they may be causing. When moving to closed or double closed loop, all that mess with skipping caused by harmonics and lost position just melts away ... THAT is what I like!!!

One of the interesting things the Brain can do is run mixed mode. Any axis can be either Open Loop, Closed Loop, or Double Closed Loop, and stepper or servo, in any combination. This lets you "grow" your machine to where you want it to be ... add as you want ... according to what you have available.

As for what you need, you've got it exactly. The CNC Brain is a motion control system (a super computer in a box). It takes G-Code from the PC, tells the drivers (such as Gecko ... which are great BTW) what to do, and takes input from sensors to correct in near real-time.

As for a "Mach replacement", I don't know if it would be called that. Mach is a good product and everyone is familiar with it (let's be honest, they ARE the market). There was some talk with Brian (a really great guy) at ArtSoft back in March to create a plugin, but that is up to him and his schedule.

The Control Panel GUI (which comes free with the CNC Brain) does come with the source code (yes, the whole program, source files, and project ... written in VB.Net ... even has a diagram in the project to show how the program is put together). It is built in layers that let it be changed very quickly and easily.

The idea is to let anyone create whatever they want with the stability of a dedicated motion control engine, without having to start from scratch.

The SDK simplifies the Brain interface. You say, "move these 6 axis to here", it figures out how to do it. And it can be used on more than just machining: robotics, pick-n-place, machine automation, etc..

As for easy setup, that is the idea (within reason .. darn wires . Check out the video about the I/O Tab (one of my pet peaves)

One other addictive thing is the Mouse Jog. Toward the end, past editing the "picture" jog buttons ... that Mouse wheel becomes usable!

Again, thanks for the feedback!!! Your questions, comments, and suggestions are always welcome. Any gift of knowledge or wisdom you wish to pass along will be most humbly, and thankfully, accepted.


s/Bruce

[cncor]

Don't get me wrong. I'm still very interrested.
But how long do I have to wait???

I while ago some company promissed a very nice product (completely different market). It was in development, but soon to be released.
We are 1.5 years further now, but this product is still not available!!!!
I regret that I waited for this product so long. I do not want to do that anymore. Life is to short.
Is the CNCBrain going the same route?

[Switcher]

brccrb,

All I can say is WOW!

You've been busy.

I'm a bit confused by folks asking If it will work with Mach3 or EMC2 (here & in your other thread ), why would anyone want 2 controls from 2 seperate companies to work with each other?


.

[turmite]

brccrb,

All I can say is WOW!

You've been busy.

I'm a bit confused by folks asking If it will work with Mach3 or EMC2 (here & in your other thread ), why would anyone want 2 controls from 2 seperate companies to work with each other?


.

Switcher the main reason would familarity.....ifn I spelled that right! Many, in fact very many people love Mach and the interface it offers and are used to it. That fact alone will cause some to want the interface. On the other hand, CNCBrain is what Mach has been trying to achieve for the past several years. Closed loop, with real world position error correction. It's gonna be great!

Mike

[cut more]

Is there anyone out there who has purchased the cncbrain and has it running yet?
I would be interested in hearing how the set-up & tuning went.

Thanks for any info,
Cutmore

[turmite]

Hi Cutmore,

The CNCBrain only became available late Monday night. I will say that if you haven't watched the videos, do so. They will show you a lot of what you want to know.

Hopefully I get mine ordered today.

Mike

[brccrb]

Cutmore,
The CNC Brain was released on evening Monday (June 16th) .. and we started recieving orders two hours later. So soon, there should a lot of feedback!

Remember, it is a Beta (the hardaware won't change, just the software/firmware). And to be very open, it hasn't been tested on every kind of equipment (duh ). So over the next month or so, I'm sure it will be "The Great Bug Hunt".

The comforting part is that since the Brain is really 3 layers (GUI, SDK, Hardware ... even the layers are divided into functional layers), finding a bug and fixing it is a lot easier than trying to fix a large monolithic program. There is less of the "fix this, broke that" scenario.

Plus, the bulk of the bugs will probably be in the user interface which is the easiest to fix (and the GUI source code is open so if someone has VB experience, they can debug it themselves ... many eyes make problems small).

Great question!

s/Bruce

Is there anyone out there who has purchased the cncbrain and has it running yet?
I would be interested in hearing how the set-up & tuning went.

Thanks for any info,
Cutmore

[Mike Stevenson]

Switcher the main reason would familarity.....ifn I spelled that right!

Mike,

It's familiarity.

[cncadmin]

I want 3 of them, it's like a great product!

[brccrb]

That's the spirit!

The website isn't clear on this:

In the upper right hand corner there are two icons: one is for a CNC Brain forum (not to take away from the CNC Zone, as if that were even possible, but intended to be specific to the CNC Brain along with the, "we want this" and "how do you do that" stuff).

The second icon is a shopping cart which is a link into the secure storefront.

s/Bruce

I want 3 of them, it's like a great product!

[turmite]

I want 3 of them, it's like a great product!

NOT till I get mine!(nuts)

Paul this is what I mentioned to you in the email the other day!

Mike

[Khalid]

www.cncbrain.com
the above website is not opening in firefox browser...I want to see that product..some body help me

[brccrb]

Khalid,
The website was built with .Net and "in theory" is supposed to work with any browser. With that said, I didn't know there was a FireFox browser problem.

Let me dig mine up and see what is going on.

Are you on Linux or Windows?

s/Bruce

www.cncbrain.com
the above website is not opening in firefox browser...I want to see that product..some body help me

[brccrb]

Khalid,
There is a formatting issue with Firefox and Safari. We'll get on that ASAP.

If you aren't seeing the page at all, it might be from the redirect.

www.CNCBrain.com points to www.SafeguardRobotics.com

Try the direct link.

s/Bruce

Khalid,
The website was built with .Net and "in theory" is supposed to work with any browser. With that said, I didn't know there was a FireFox browser problem.

Let me dig mine up and see what is going on.

Are you on Linux or Windows?

s/Bruce

[fer_mayrl]

I for one would love to see this hardware work with Mach3, Why?

Well first of all im familiar with the software.
It is VERY easy to design your own custom screens.
Brains (the mach3 addon) is a great adition for controling external components.
There is modbus wich is great too.

I really hope you guys can get this to work well with mach, not to take anything away from your software which I can see its great, but right off the bat i can see that it is intended for Mill or router uses, and everything is left out on the open (configuration) for the operator, Bad if it is a production machine and you dont want the operator messing with it. I dont see it being as friendly as to design a screen for another type of aplication.

Other than that I think its an amazing product.

best Regards
Fernando

[brccrb]

Fernando,
Well said. Mach is the market. The GUI is a starting platform intended for general use (and SDK working source).

There is a "configuration mode" that can be turned off (menu item) and protected with a password (the idea to protect but not hide the configuration). But it doesn't address the screen design. You have a great point.

In your use, do you setup a screen then use it over and over. Are there fixture changes, tool changes? How do you use the interface? Stand alone machine? Changing machine task? ... if I might humbly ask, borrowing your experience ... teach me, I'll listen.

**
Your comment also brings out another point. CNC was originially designed for repeatability, not prototyping. A machine can make an accurate part by tweaking the G-Code to get it just right. That environment has special needs.

Mass production is an art, not a science. And anything that can help compensate for possible error improves the bottom line.

But now, G-Code is taking on another role (one which wasn't the original intent): Prototyping. Producing a prototype is a challenge unto itself.

A lot of small shop and home CNC'ers want/need one piece of G-Code to produce one part the first time accurately (they don't have the time/resources to "tweak" and make it up in mass production). They'll get around to a half-million parts when their idea is off the ground. Expense and accuracy are paramount.

It is interesting to see how the CNC Brain could be useful in both areas by better position control. Especially at the price point.

Great comment!

s/Bruce