[TurboStep]

I've been evaluating various CNC mills over the last few months and the Tormach is currently top of my list. While I don't believe everything that I read the inputs in this forum have significantly influenced my decision - up to now.

A few days ago a thread entitled "Review if the Tormach PCNC 1100" was started by someone reporting to be a dissatisfied customer (I'm trying to be impartial here). This thread received an unusually high number of replies in a short time and, from memory, I would say that most were positive for Tormach.

One reply pointed out that there always two sides to a disagreement and I was hoping for some kind of response from Tormach. They sponsor the forum so I assume that they are interested in the posts.

This thread then disappeared! I later found it in the Vendor Discussion forum.
It could be argued that this is the correct forum but the thread would receive significantly less exposure to potential Tormach customers there. I also asked myself whether entirely positive threads are also moved in the same manner?

The thread was subsequently deleted from the Vendor Discussion forum!

Another reply pointed out that there are seldom any negative posts in the Tormach forum. Do they all go the same way as this thread?

As I said at the start I am (still) a potential Tormach customer and would be very interested in a published response from the forum moderators and Tormach to the content and removal of the original thread - if possible before THIS thread is moved or deleted!

Many thanks, Step

[philbur]

I think there is a bit of a collective, stunned silence at the moment.

I'm personally am not happy, but I haven't worked out exactly why yet. It certainly degrades the value of the forum, especially for potential Tormach buyers and also for those that are prepared to defend it in free and open discussions. I think I may have just given up.

Phil

PS: It's not so much that the thread has disappeared it's more to do with a lack of any explanation.

I've been evaluating various CNC mills over the last few months and the Tormach is currently top of my list. While I don't believe everything that I read the inputs in this forum have significantly influenced my decision - up to now.

A few days ago a thread entitled "Review if the Tormach PCNC 1100" was started by someone reporting to be a dissatisfied customer (I'm trying to be impartial here). This thread received an unusually high number of replies in a short time and, from memory, I would say that most were positive for Tormach.

One reply pointed out that there always two sides to a disagreement and I was hoping for some kind of response from Tormach. They sponsor the forum so I assume that they are interested in the posts.

This thread then disappeared! I later found it in the Vendor Discussion forum.
It could be argued that this is the correct forum but the thread would receive significantly less exposure to potential Tormach customers there. I also asked myself whether entirely positive threads are also moved in the same manner?

The thread was subsequently deleted from the Vendor Discussion forum!

Another reply pointed out that there are seldom any negative posts in the Tormach forum. Do they all go the same way as this thread?

As I said at the start I am (still) a potential Tormach customer and would be very interested in a published response from the forum moderators and Tormach to the content and removal of the original thread - if possible before THIS thread is moved or deleted!

Many thanks, Step

[johntm]

Please remember that this site is run free for all to use, and the moderators have to do their jobs as best they can while trying to do their real jobs too.

I can't tell you what is said behind the scenes here, for I am not privy to the discussions or the basic instructions given to the moderators. I can only infer from my own experience on another site that I moderated and administrated for about five years. We are a pretty hands-off crowd, but when a thread would begin with a rant about service from a particular vendor, it usually got shuffled off to a more appropriate area such as our "JoMomma" or our Vendor's Forum. That was just standard policy.

I can see the logic in the move in this case too. Is the site owner concerned with keeping the Machine forums as a place for technical help and information on the machines, or should it be a wastebasket for every post that mentions that particular machine? I neither agree or disagree with a particular policy here, it simply is what it is. What's more important is that it remains consistent.

It seems that an area of this site is dedicated to issues between vendors and customers to allow these discussions to take place without disturbing the board users that would rather spend their valuable time finding out about the machine, not what one or two particular users think of the customer service of the company that produces it. I think it was the moderator's decision to move that thread for just that reason.

My personal preference agrees with that of the person who set this policy, be that the site owner, the admins, or a particular moderator. If I am interested in seeing everything said online about the Tormach mill, I can simply do a search at the root level of the forums to see.

[philbur]

Yes but this particular thread seems to have gone, completely.

Phil

If I am interested in seeing everything said online about the Tormach mill, I can simply do a search at the root level of the forums to see.

[johntm]

You're right, Phil. I can't find it either.

It could mean that it is "under review". The sticky in that forum states that the posts are " examined to determine whether they make false or defamatory statements". I'm assuming that is what they are checking, but I don't know.

My usual response when I see something on the web that is troubling or confusing is "It's only the Internet". That mantra kept me sane during my four years moderating a specific forum where vitrol and mod-baiting were de rigeur.

[300sniper]

lawyers were involved. in a private message from the original poster i was told that their lawyer was suggesting the thread be removed. it very well may have been the original poster that removed the thread. i sincerely hope it was not tormach that got the thread be removed. as long as the original poster with the complaint was being honest, i think it is bs for a vendor to censor views. this is even more important with a relatively new machine that people are most likely ordering sight unseen.

here is my honest review of the machine.
my machine arived dead on arival. the spindle motor wouldn't work. i called tormach to do some trouble shooting. after a few ideas, it was determined the vfd was bad. a new vfd was sent and i swapped it out. the spindle motor still didn't work. i spent some more time trouble shooting over the phone with tormach and it all came back to the vfd. another vfd was sent out and i swapped the replacement for the newer replacement. this time it worked and has been working since.

in my opinion, while i was not happy that the machine was doa, tormach did what they needed to make it right. the tech support from tormach was great. the machine seems built well and i am satisfied with the accuracy. all of my problems with the machine after the initial problem have been user caused. i am not a machinist by trade, just a garage hack so causing problems is to be expected.

bottom line is if i needed another machine in that size and budget, i'd buy another tormach. i just don't see anything better in that price range or even close for that matter.


and again, i really hope it was not tormach that had the original thread removed. that is totally unfair to the consumers if so.

[fastlanecafe]

[QUOTE=johntm;541103]Please remember that this site is run free for all to use, and the moderators have to do their jobs as best they can while trying to do their real jobs too.

The forum may be free to use, but its a business for the owners. Those banner ads cost a lot of money each month, and being that its now 2008 and every dollar is precious, you can expect the forum owners to bend over backwards to placate the advertisers.

[johntm]

[quote=fastlanecafe;541122]

Please remember that this site is run free for all to use, and the moderators have to do their jobs as best they can while trying to do their real jobs too.

The forum may be free to use, but its a business for the owners. Those banner ads cost a lot of money each month, and being that its now 2008 and every dollar is precious, you can expect the forum owners to bend over backwards to placate the advertisers.

We can only hope that they are true to their stated editorial policy at the top of the Vendors forum. But it is our choice to be here or not, and theirs to run the site in the manner they feel appropriate.

[fastlanecafe]

Sounds like litigation is moving forward- the first thing a lawyer tells his client is to keep quiet and let the lawyer do all the talking.

[Crevice Reamer]

Uhh? There's no delete for posts. How could the original poster have removed it?

CR.

[300sniper]

Uhh? There's no delete for posts. How could the original poster have removed it?

CR.

the original poster or tormach could have contacted the mods here and said "pretty please remove the thread, lawyers are involved".

[MrWild]

After reading how Tormach used cloned Gecko drives at the beginning, and paid no damages, I refused to ever consider them.

[joeybagadonuts]

Gentlemen,

This forum is a business its not supposed to be fair.

The advertiser pays for the forum and rules their designated product section.

They moderate the section in order sell products not to let you bad rap them.

Once you make enough trouble or noise the post, thread or complete section gets deleted.

Its capitalism at its finest.

Now its time for some coffee and my famous doughnuts.

JoeyB

[svenakela]

Could we please get a specific reason as to why the thread was moved and/or deleted?

Shure, you just have to send a PM to cncadmin. It's up to him to answer that question and I see no problem with asking it.

[philbur]

My experience is that cncadmin does not reply to emails.

Phil

Shure, you just have to send a PM to cncadmin. It's up to him to answer that question and I see no problem with asking it.

[Ballix]

Hey guys, you have to realize that Tormach manages their own threads and forums. This means that they can delete a thread or comment at any time so you wont see it. I'm sure it will only be a matter of time before this comment magically disappears. Its interesting how they they cant even stand behind their product and address negative feedback. :nono:

[Tormachmaster]

Hey guys, you have to realize that Tormach manages their own threads and forums. This means that they can delete a thread or comment at any time so you wont see it. I'm sure it will only be a matter of time before this comment magically disappears. Its interesting how they they cant even stand behind their product and address negative feedback. :nono:

Ok I hear you on this but where is it comming from I have a 1100 and have been useing it for years now and it still performs great are you from a competitive company?

[bobeson]

Hey guys, you have to realize that Tormach manages their own threads and forums. This means that they can delete a thread or comment at any time so you wont see it. I'm sure it will only be a matter of time before this comment magically disappears. Its interesting how they they cant even stand behind their product and address negative feedback. :nono:

I think you have not read this thread entirely - it was made entirely clear by a moderator that advertising forum sponsors have already lost their moderation abilities, apparently after issues like this were raised. You would serve everybody well to be more careful before slinging accusations like this around, particularly when credible contrary information is so readily available.

[MichaelHenry]

Its interesting how they they cant even stand behind their product and address negative feedback.

I've dealt with very few companies that support their products as well as Tormach does. It is gratifying that they don't feel the need to respond to every unqualified statement made here.

[Don Clement]

What BS.