[kevperro]

I'm playing with different CAM packages this week. I have a full copy of Alibre that I've been using a few years. When I bought the Tormach I figured I'd just use the basic version of AlibreCAM that is included with Alibre. After going through the tutorial (that didn't work) and finding out that the basic CAM package with Alibre is pretty basic and very limited, I'm thinking of getting SprutCAM instead.

I installed the demo version and to be honest, my first impression is negative. The tutorial sucks. It isn't even representative of what you see on the screen.

Is there anyone other good resources for getting started with SprutCAM? I need some hand-holding to get started and the tutorials that come with the software have a lot to be desired. Maybe a SprutCAM book or some other resource that could get me started would probably get me over the hump.

[RTP_Burnsville]

I spent about 6 months trying different CAM software before investing in SprutCam. I finally picked SC because I could find nothing else in the market place that has the price / performance ratio anywhere close. Your ratio may be different than mine as much of it depends on what you want to create ,what your background is in figuring such things out with limited documentation, and if it's for a hobby or a business venture.

As for reference material Dave from the UK site has some training materials for a very reasonable price. I know of no available book or training other than the material Dave offers. FWIW, There are a few members here that have been very helpful in helping the new guy get up to speed.

I think all of us that have used the program will pretty much agree the initial learning curve is a bit steep. However, the developers and users are very supportive in helping each other through the rough spots. The program is very powerful and SC does provide updates and new features every month or so.

I am not associated with SC, just a user that is satisfied with the purchase.

[dkaustin]

I'll second RTP's comments. Sprut gave me fits when I first started working with it. Its organization wasn't always intuitive for me, and I couldn't always find the features I wanted where I thought they should be. The more I worked with the program, though, the more it began to make sense.

As others have said, there's nothing else out there for the price that comes close. Don't give up on Sprut. Your efforts will be rewarded.

[howecnc]

If you have a few dollars to spend I would recommend Bobcad/cam. That is probably the cheapest mid-grade cam package you can buy. They have a complete easy to follow cd set that you can by and the user interface makes sense.
They do have a demo to download so you can get a first hand look.

[MichaelHenry]

BobCAM seems to be one of those products where users either love it or hate it. If you go that route be sure to try the demo and if you like that be prepared to negotiate for a significant discount.

Dave's SprutCAM fee-based site (link below) has many relevant tutorials that are based on current or very recent SC versions and I believe that the fee includes a certain amount of email support. He will also create tutorials at user request.

http://www.download.sprut.co.uk/Supp...ex.php?act=idx

Mike

On edit: Free user support is also supplied on http://forums.sprutcam.com/forums/

[kevperro]

BobCAM seems to be one of those products where users either love it or hate it. If you go that route be sure to try the demo and if you like that be prepared to negotiate for a significant discount.

Dave's SprutCAM fee-based site (link below) has many relevant tutorials that are based on current or very recent SC versions and I believe that the fee includes a certain amount of email support. He will also create tutorials at user request.

http://www.download.sprut.co.uk/Supp...ex.php?act=idx

Mike

On edit: Free user support is also supplied on http://forums.sprutcam.com/forums/

I've been at Dave's site all day going through the tutorials. His tutorials are excellent but watching them all in a day is like drinking from a fire hose.

I prefer to support companies that work with Tormach so I'm leaning towards SprutCAM with Dave's support system. It certainly looks like a complete system with more capability than I'll need although there are some obvious bugs and the user interface has some general issues.

Since it already has 4th axis support, along with the lathe support it looks to have all the functionality I will ever need while using the Tormach. I just bought the Duality Lathe and while I don't have a lot of needed lathe operations, it is nice to get a software package that can support anything I might need down the road.

I think I'll try SprutCAM for the next month and at the end of my trail, if I'm happy with it I'll just buy it. If not.... well I'll probably have already moved on to trying a different package.

Thanks for all the feedback guys.

[MichaelHenry]

I just bought the Duality Lathe and while I don't have a lot of needed lathe operations, it is nice to get a software package that can support anything I might need down the road.

I have the Duality lathe too and have used it a little with SprutCAM. For the most part lathe operations seems a lot more intuitive with SprutCAM.

One advantage is that SprutCAM will cut tapered pipe threads. The lathe wizards that are included with Mach will only cut tapers that are of integral degrees. That's a bug that is supposed to be fixed one day.

Mike

[Don Clement]

I also own SprutCam and SC is very capable. However training is limited and there are no books that I have found to help with SprutCAM. I haven't tried the UK site yet. It's too bad that SprutCAM doesn't have something like SolidProfessor http://www.solidprofessor.com/ that works very well with Solidworks 2009 and Solidworks 2009 Simulation that I just purchased. But also Solidworks built-in tutorials and help are excellent. I am sure that with a SprutCAM "Professor" similar to SolidProfessor (or even help and tutorials at the same level as Solidworks ) SprutCAM would be selling quite a few more CAM seats. The alternatives are way more expenisive; MasterCAM that works with Solidworks 2009 was quoted at $9K ($8K if I had bought at Westec) Similar price for Solidworks CAM package. So at ~$1k SprutCAM is a bargain if one is willing to figure out how to use SprutCAM with less help than is available from the more expensive alternatives.

[MichaelHenry]

Don,

Any sort of easily available and relevant training material would help SC sales. Even an up to date manual written in moderately decent English would be a big help. It would be interesting to see their sales figures by country, or even continent.

Is Mastercam at $9k comparable in feature set to the SprutCAM Expert we get from Tormach? Seems like may of the CAM products have lots of different versions or optional upgrades that can really change the price.

Also, did you ever use Alibre?

Mike

[Don Clement]

Mike,

Yes the quote for MasterCAM was at Westec in L.A. this year for a three-axis version that works as an add-in for Solidworks 2009. BTW Solidworks CAM software was about the same cost as MasterCAM. I have never used Alibrie.

I have been using Solidworks 2000 for about nine years. Previous to Solidworks I used Autocad 14…talk about a paradigm shift with a lisp. In High school I did take a drafting course that used Tsquares and triangles. Remember the various pencil grades H,HB,6H, etc? My main purpose for buying Solidworks 2009 is that I wanted Solidworks Simulation (FEA analysis software) so that I could completely model and optimize my product on the computer before building my next prototype. I had to buy a current seat of Solidworks in order to get Solidworks Simulation for assemblies and also for non-linear simualtion. The good thing is that Solidworks Simulation is an add-in that works seamlessly from within a Solidworks on a Solidworks part or assembly and one doesn't have to be an FEA Guru in using SW Simulation (I am an EE and find SW simulation very easy to use). BTW every seat of Solidworks has SimulationXpress for simulating and optimizing a single body part. Also I can run a linear FEA simulation (called a study in SW) and then easily run a nonlinear FEA simulation from the same data set by simply drag and drop the conditions (material, model, loading, fixturing, meshing, etc) onto the new nonlinear study. In Solidworks Simulation there is also an optimizing function so that I can set limits on the results and have Solidworks automatically vary part and or assembly parameters to find an optimized solid model that fits within the limits that were set. For example, I plan to optimize for minimum weight of my product while maintaining a set of performance conditions by milling slots or machining holes in the various parts. Or automatically change the dimensions (like thickness) or geometry (also use varying materials e.g. use BeCu instead of SS) of the 36 flexural strips used in my product. The problem now is that I need a new fast PC with a lot of memory in order to run simulations and optimizations in a timely manor. The Dell precision series of PC workstations with 64 bit OS are looking like just the ticket.

Solidworks is extremely powerful software with many add-ins available such as SprutCAM that can be called from within Solidworks. I bought Solidworks Premium version that also has extensive add-ins like Toolbox and Photoworks. Toolbox has a vast library of predefined parts such as fasteners and bearings. These smart parts can be easily dragged and dropped then automatically mated to holes created with Solidworks Hole Wizard. Or a smart part such as a subD electrical connector can be dragged and dropped onto an assembly in which the hole for the connector is automatically created along with the fasteners (screws, washers, nuts) to mount the subD connector. There are many companies that support 3D Solidmodels downloadable from the web. The Photoworks add-in allows for some pretty awesome photo realistic rendering to be done.

So Solidworks is not just parametric 3D modeling software, it is an extremely powerful design and modeling tool. BTW Solidworks also supports 3D scanners such as NextEngine directly into a solid model. See: https://www.nextengine.com/indexSecure.htm

Don

[MichaelHenry]

Thanks for the info Don.

My guess is that SprutCAM with quasi 4/5 axis and lathe support is at least the equal of the $9k version of MasterCam so far as feature sets go. Maybe better if MC is 3-axis only with no lathe support. MC is probably years ahead so far as training goes.

SolidWorks seems to be the standard parametric CAD package and I'd like to use it if my hobby budget could afford the initial outlay not to mention the annual maintenance fees. Alibre has some of the same types of add-ons (FEA photo-rendering, simulation, and parts libraries, but they all seems to be a little behind state of the art. They pricing is starting to become a little less competitive, though still 1/2 or less the cost of SW. Alibre does link to SprutCAM but SC won't see automatically changes in the model, which would be a really nice feature to have.

I remember mechanical pencils and still have my dad's old drafting table and drafting tools. I started with Digital Research GEM in the late 70's, moved up to Micrographx Designer, and then to Visio. None of those is very good for CAD but I just couldn't get proficient with 2D CAD programs of the time like DesignCAD or Autosketch. Things just seemed to click for me with Alibre and that's where I've stayed for the last 8 years.

Mike

[Don Clement]

My guess is that SprutCAM with quasi 4/5 axis and lathe support is at least the equal of the $9k version of MasterCam so far as feature sets go. Mike

Mike,

I agree. If SprutCAM had adequate training and support it would be equal to MasterCAM for about 1/10 the cost of MC.
Solidworks help, support, and training are excellent and with the addition of SolidProfessor is outstanding. I usually get good results just using the pull down help menu in Solidworks. If I need more help then open SolidProfessor. For example I needed to use in-context (Top-down) design in order to place the right hole locations of a part in an assembly. I opened SolidProfessor and ran the Advanced Assembly lessons that are in the form of a video right on my computer. Better than any book. Here is a link to SolidProfessor free downloads: http://www.solidprofessor.com/downloadlms.asp Also one can download a 90 day version of SW from http://www.solidworks.com/sw/esp/eng...s_package.html If any of you are students (e.g. taking a course at a community college ) then you may qualify for a student version of SW, SW simulation and Solidprofessor for about $300. The student version has a 2-year license. For hobby use the student version of SW may just be one affordable solution.

Don

[David Bord]

Dell precision series of PC workstations with 64 bit OS are looking like just the ticket.

Id highly recommend buying a Intel 5500 series processor based system!! I work for Intel and this new processor is extremely fast when used with engineering apps. The 5400 series is good as well... the 5500 is 20-300%faster on certain apps.

David

[kevperro]

I use Alibre. It does everything I need it to do. It is sometimes kind of buggy, crashing more than I think it should but overall it is a powerful CAD package.