[factory5150]

I will back up those statements of George being no fraud. He is a stand up guy doing his best as a one man show. I have had my problems with his communication and delivery times, but he has not once let me down. He has always come through, it just takes time. I bought my machine 2 years ago almost to the day from him and it took 5-6 months do deliver it. I could have asked for my money back, and I know he would have given it to me. But I didn't and I have been happy with the product I have received. I ordered t-slot table top from him early this year and it took 3-4 months to ship it, but I did eventually get it and everything was fine. When your a 1 man show filling orders and shipping its easy to get behind and I understood that fact. George isn't afraid to call you when there is a problem and he has no issue with taking the time to work things out with you. He called me last night around 8 because of a racking issue I am having and spent 20-30min explaining what to do. He didn't have to do that, but he did and that should mean something to any rational person. You can call George slow on email responses or delivery times, but calling him a thief and a fraud is absolutely bogus.

Just my .02

[alpineboard]

Hi, I do not post much here but keep up to date. I have the 40x80 raptor, that I am getting going, some limit issues with mach3. I do understand all of your feelings of the wait, I waited too, a lot more than you probably will and for many reasons as well, changes as we went, upgrades, single order, etc. What you must try to understand is that in the industry of manufacturing there are many reasons for things not happening right away, endless reasons. These reasons seem to be multiplied when you work alone. I know because I work alone. Also, this is not a loaf of bread at the store. I looked into making my machine myself and it was cost prohibited. Georges prices are unbelievable, but you must wait, price other companies and you will see. Also, who is to say you will not run into problems with other companies. George will provide you with a good machine. George probably has received your information about your concerns. You are probably at the top of his to do list by now. I turned the heat on him once and then removed it. Please remove your heat as well and let him do what he needs to do. As I would like for him and what he does to be around for a while. I may order with him again. If you still need some more info, pm me, regards Robert

[barnaclebeau]

I feel inclined to add my .02 cents as well. I ordered a 24" x 48" machine three months ago, I've received pretty much the whole machine, waiting on two small pieces and tabletop. I looked into building a machine myself for well over a year prior to ordering from George; there is NO WAY I could build a similarly-spec'ed machine myself at the prices he's charging. I've PMed quite a few people, on CNCZone and other forums, about these machines; everyone who actually has one, has nothing but good things to say about them. I, too, can attest to the build quality, and say that George is no thief.

So George's specialty is not chatting up customers in the queue, giving them warm fuzzies about the progress of their machine - big deal. He's a one-man show. I'd rather him be making product, than phone calls. The product speaks for itself. Maybe once he reboots his process, he'll hire a honey-voiced twentysomething to answer phones all day, and run out to the warehouse with a clipboard to find out the status of a particular machine. But honey-voiced twentysomethings don't work for free, and I like the prices the way they are.

[BanduraMaker]

he'll hire a honey-voiced twentysomething to answer phones all day,

He'll need to put out the Xzero equivalent of the snap on calendar too then!

[8548matthew]

I have not been to this thread in a while. I purchased a machine from George quite some time ago. I have read threads critical of George. Some of these issues may be valid and yes I had a few myself. But I also know that I could not be happier with the machine I got from George. If you are expecting a $100,000 machine to show up with two "certified" technicians to train you for a week, this is not the machine for you. If you, like me, believe, that given the rights tools and enough time you could build one yourself, you will be quite happy with an XZero machine. I have also learned that you have to be realistic about the expectations of what you get for what you give.

[CNCforfun]

I guess it is better to be mad for not getting machine fast enough than getting another machine from others fast and being mad after you got machine.
Fast,cheap or good. You can only get 2

[gio666]

Just a update, I have the new ViperX machines that will be ready and shipped with in 3 days of order starting in 2 weeks ,The updated ViperX has a couple changes to design and now a bit stronger. Now also comes with cable chain support for Y axis,larger profiles and 1610 and 2510 ballscrews and double bearing on ballscrews. Still will have the solid half inch table top for this machine only . Machine only comes in 20x24 and no options other than Thomsom rails .All machines will only come one way only now.
New 20mm round rail 8INCH Z axis ,changed from the 16mm rails for the Viper machines with big spindles

HERE is older ViperX

[gio666]

What's the price on this?

I do have a few of these machines still, i will sell them as parts only, no fitted or tap rails ,no machining to bearings, i have rails to 2400mm long.
I have 8 of them.
But all work will have to be done yourself .They are very strong machines and nice when you get them all aligned

[cabnet636]

a hint of advice for anyone who wishes to read this, therefore it is not intended for anyone except those who wish to read it on an open forum thread on cnc zone. no response is required

(disclaimer)

under promising and over delivering is a healthy business model

honesty without compassion is cruelty

one can save too much money and find he did not get all he needed.

diplomacy, tact and firmness and in that order.

when one choses our company he is paying our price, therefore the product should fit right the first time and be exactly what he wants.

if you do not trust me do not hire me, you will make my life miserable.

bragging is a sign of problems yet to come, let the customer do it for you

these are principles posted in our shop for our employees

some time ago i posted some positive comments to anyone who choses to read them, they are intended for no one other than that person who choses so no response is needed , i have never spoke ill of georges machines nor do i feel that way, fact is he has the right idea.

i did take the time to post that i felt the larger machines using this method of cnc fabrication was not a good idea, it has been tried to use the connected aluminum method and several companies are out of business as a result, (think Dynacnc, practical cnc) i have been a cabinetmaker for some years and when someone (literally) throws a large sheet of wood on a cnc table it (the cnc) better not move,

i am amazed that he post here at all, if you look carefully at the other machine forums here on cnc zone owners of the companys rarely if at all post, most all of this is done by the customers helping customer on the zone, not filling up massive bandwidth with large volumes of photos of aluminum. george could do well with a website, in this day and age this is pretty easy, weebly (google) has an excellent template and it is free,, if you pay them a little money it is propogated by google, with a link to the website georges forum will answer all a new customers questions and keep them informed, i mean this in a helpfull way, anyone who wishes to respond to this in a critical way is missing my point. i have no doubt this fellow is overwhelmed yet i agree he is no fraud.

under promise, over deliver !! messin with peoples expectations is not a good idea, i had to learn some hard lessons about this some years ago and no matter how much i feel i need the money it is never a good idea.

another thought is, if you are a customer and not practicing some principles and doing your homework then some of this is on you,, get it in writing it is still business !!

[gio666]

some time ago i posted some positive comments to anyone who choses to read them, they are intended for no one other than that person who choses so no response is needed , i have never spoke ill of georges machines nor do i feel that way, fact is he has the right idea.

i did take the time to post that i felt the larger machines using this method of cnc fabrication was not a good idea, it has been tried to use the connected aluminum method and several companies are out of business as a result, (think Dynacnc, practical cnc) i have been a cabinetmaker for some years and when someone (literally) throws a large sheet of wood on a cnc table it (the cnc) better not move,

i am amazed that he post here at all, if you look carefully at the other machine forums here on cnc zone owners of the companys rarely if at all post, most all of this is done by the customers helping customer on the zone, not filling up massive bandwidth with large volumes of photos of aluminum. george could do well with a website, in this day and age this is pretty easy, weebly (google) has an excellent template and it is free,, if you pay them a little money it is propogated by google, with a link to the website georges forum will answer all a new customers questions and keep them informed, i mean this in a helpfull way, anyone who wishes to respond to this in a critical way is missing my point. i have no doubt this fellow is overwhelmed yet i agree he is no fraud.

under promise, over deliver !! messin with peoples expectations is not a good idea, i had to learn some hard lessons about this some years ago and no matter how much i feel i need the money it is never a good idea.

another thought is, if you are a customer and not practicing some principles and doing your homework then some of this is on you,, get it in writing it is still business !!

With the larger machine there is no problem with profiles to aluminum , The DemonX machines are good for 4x8 sheet .They are very heavy when done, they have added support alone profiles . The problem with larger machines, it is mostly companys that want them and none wanted kit. I don’t have time for turnkey large machines at this time. From 55x60 to 55x110 it is a completing different machine even though it is all the same parts. The machines are big and heavy and not much fun moving them or packing them. The problem with them it cost over 2x what I thought they would come to. At 100 inch it over 2x cost . Cost 6x more to get a 3000mm ballscrew machined then a 1500mm ballscrew. Cost 4x more to get 3000mm profiles machine then 1500mm ones. The DemonX I will be selling them again but only to 60 inch long. I have one Demon left but when new ones come out price is a least 1/3 more than first ones sold.

As for the web site I do have almost complete by a professional , there is a lot of new parts also on the site that are not listed for sale yet, but what good is it when I have hard time now keep up. As for cnczone they gave me my start and will always use them to talk to people or post about machines . Other than a few problems I had with them, they are great. I like talking to people on here and people ever where, only when they’re not screaming. Lol As why I post on cnczone ,I started here. I only wanted to sell parts and never thought about making machine. I do not brag about my machine’s ,but I am more than happy how they are becoming and always looking to make better every day. I hope I don’t become like other companies that don’t talk to people like you say. So I guess I am just not that kind of company . I never said I was perfect (JUST MACHINES ARE) but one day I will have all worked out . I just know I will give you the best machine I can, for really dollar price.

You seem to always point out shipping on your posts , but the machines that you say have nothing to with but I believe than not to be true , I read on a thread and have posted it on cnczone, but it get removed all the time. But the person getting a machine from Camaster , had waited 4 times longer than told and also a hand full of delivery dates he had even forgot about. So I guess I not the only one,

[cabnet636]

With the larger machine there is no problem with profiles to aluminum , The DemonX machines are good for 4x8 sheet .They are very heavy when done, they have added support alone profiles . The problem with larger machines, it is mostly companys that want them and none wanted kit. I don’t have time for turnkey large machines at this time. From 55x60 to 55x110 it is a completing different machine even though it is all the same parts. The machines are big and heavy and not much fun moving them or packing them. The problem with them it cost over 2x what I thought they would come to. At 100 inch it over 2x cost . Cost 6x more to get a 3000mm ballscrew machined then a 1500mm ballscrew. Cost 4x more to get 3000mm profiles machine then 1500mm ones. The DemonX I will be selling them again but only to 60 inch long. I have one Demon left but when new ones come out price is a least 1/3 more than first ones sold.

As for the web site I do have almost complete by a professional , there is a lot of new parts also on the site that are not listed for sale yet, but what good is it when I have hard time now keep up. As for cnczone they gave me my start and will always use them to talk to people or post about machines . Other than a few problems I had with them, they are great. I like talking to people on here and people ever where, only when they’re not screaming. Lol As why I post on cnczone ,I started here. I only wanted to sell parts and never thought about making machine. I do not brag about my machine’s ,but I am more than happy how they are becoming and always looking to make better every day. I hope I don’t become like other companies that don’t talk to people like you say. So I guess I am just not that kind of company . I never said I was perfect (JUST MACHINES ARE) but one day I will have all worked out . I just know I will give you the best machine I can, for really dollar price.

You seem to always point out shipping on your posts , but the machines that you say have nothing to with but I believe than not to be true , I read on a thread and have posted it on cnczone, but it get removed all the time. But the person getting a machine from Camaster , had waited 4 times longer than told and also a hand full of delivery dates he had even forgot about. So I guess I not the only one,

i guess i missed the shipping part and not too sure i understand what you mean by this yet i think the company you mentioned would be foolish to say they had no shipping problems when they sell hundreds of units,, it is going to happen. i know most all of the owners personally as i moderate the www.camheads.org forum as an owner to keep the company on its toes, this is where an owner can gripe or whatever, there are over 1500 owners here, i am sure they appreciate the plug,, just keep up the good work and the kings will find you. you have a good product, baffleling why it seems you find this offensive

[janekc]

Well almost there

All i have to say its great machine so far
don't have it running yet

I have waited much longer than most
but that has been my choice from the begining
2010 anybody

George is a great guy

will post vids very soon

regards
jan

[CNCforfun]

Those have to be the best looking machine out there. Those mounts for motors look big?

[CNCforfun]

I can't wait to see the new machines all anodized now. Blue and red ones Im told. I will be getting a blue one for sure.

[gio666]

[/B]

i guess i missed the shipping part and not too sure i understand what you mean by this yet i think the company you mentioned would be foolish to say they had no shipping problems when they sell hundreds of units,, it is going to happen. i know most all of the owners personally as i moderate the CAMaster CNC Router User Community - CAMheads.org forum as an owner to keep the company on its toes, this is where an owner can gripe or whatever, there are over 1500 owners here, i am sure they appreciate the plug,, just keep up the good work and the kings will find you. you have a good product, baffleling why it seems you find this offensive

I’m sorry Mr James , but after a long time of your pot shots I find everything you say good or bad offensive. I have no problem giving Camaster’s a plug, if a person needs a turnkey there one to look at there. But machine wise , with design and being rack and pinion it is sub-par machine and not even in same league as the Raptor’s, with that design the steel frame which does nothing . A machine is only as good as it weakest part, and on your machine it is the gantry section. Even thou your machines are 3 times the price don't make them better. I truly just don’t understand why you post your propaganda stuff on my thread? I don’t see you posting that crap on your Camaster thread? Have I ever posted on your Camaster thread? It just show the type of person you are post a link on another person thread.I have sold Vectric software to people and they tell they wont go on their site as your there to post on everything and pushing sales for your Camaster

[CNCforfun]

To tell you the truth. If I was a machine company I would worry too. Mostly because of the price you charge for high quality. I can't see how it is worth your time with low price?

[cabnet636]

To tell you the truth. If I was a machine company I would worry too. Mostly because of the price you charge for high quality. I can't see how it is worth your time with low price?

george, i belive cncforfun is right and i can understand if you do not or do not wish to see my point, many here on the forum continue to encourage you to build what i consider a really good machine fo an extremly cheap price. low to be competitive is one thing yet too low as to not have profit for growth or R&D as well as the problems you have listed cannot be healthy for your company, i have said it before "do good work and the kings find you" yes i am a happy customer to another company and whatever you choose to believe is your choice, we hold a vectric user group meeting here in columbia every year that is attended by many on these forums, i am and end user who benefits greatly from my use and encouragement of cnc software and machines, i found sometime ago that by elevating othere we elevate ourselves. a few years ago i could have never learned or afforded to learn cnc on my own with the big iron industry methods that were available to a cabinetmaker like myself. anyone who does not go on vectrics forum and benefit from its use is shortminded and uninformed as i am on the vectric software beta team and willing to help anyone who purchases and desires to use it, if someone truely has told you something like that i would raise and eyebrow to it as it sounds a bit like hog malarkey to me, there is very little machine promotion on vectric other than the 350 plus different machines and controllers listed in the pp section of software. i gave serious consideration to the purchase of your machine i chose not to for two reasons, A) i did not want to finish the machine myself, B) there was too much ambiguity over delivery and whether all parts arrive together and when. good business id a contract between seller and buyer, it has a beggining, a middle, and an end.

too many people "pop" up here with delivery complaints who have never posted before, the problem with this is it lends to the red flag of how many others never complained and do any of them have machines just sitting in corners of a garage unfinished, you have 571 members of your forum yet they come here to complain,, my point is this is something i would address,

personally my hope is you prosper, i love the work i make with my cnc machines they make me money and a lot of fun, as to whether they are better or worse i have seen both methods and see no difference in quality just method, i have a machine that works very well, is right on accurate and has very few if any problems. as a customer why would i want to care, i just need a machine to do its job. goerge i don't need to sell machines good machines sell themselves, i do however have to sell good woodwork !

[iknowyoudo]

I have read all the complaints but refuse to buy from other than George. I myself have a small business manufacturing my own line of goods and put out the best product possible for as low as possible. I know everyone says bad business. I'm not looking to rape people on the price nor go broke selling what I make. I'm more concerned about quality of my product. Besides skill and knowledge you need quality components that make up your cnc machine to make the finest parts. George doesn't push you into a sale of the largest machine as a few companies I have dealt with in the past. I don't blame them if that is how they want to do business. I'm not attacking anyone or trying to get a jab in. George has been great at answering all the questions I've had. I find him to be the most genuine person I've talked to of all the high end home cnc machines. I would rather wait to deal with George than deal with anyone else I've talked to. I see both sides. I feel for those who have had to wait. I know when jobs start stacking up and you have no way to get it done it hurts. The same goes for George as I know how getting burned feels also. The only good advise my father gave was, "Do the job right or don't do it at all!" I told him fine then I'm not doing it. Next thing I know I get hit in the back of the head and he says, "No one said you have a choice!" George I appreciate all the time and effort you put into your product to make it right.

Eric K.

[Poaim]

The biggest single thing that could be done would be to just state at the time of sale "It'll be 6-8 months." If you get it in 8 weeks well that's awesome. If it takes 7 months you can't complain.

I're received half the parts so far and the quality looks good. FedEx is currently transporting the other half. It's like Christmas now, only Santa drives a white van and makes me sign for what he drops off.

[gio666]

There is lots of reasons for slowdowns, mostly because of making new parts and changing design of part to make machine better. But some people are not willing to pay for the new part and only want to pay the original price. With the Viper machines changing to bearing housing made in Canada instead of the china bearing housings that where out of tolerance, changing to better ballscrews, most of that came out of my pocket. Lots of times I don’t think and change part instead of waiting and get rid of the current machine and change on next ones like I should. As lots of the machines where sold for a lot less than they are now. Some people that got the first Raptor machines where people that wanted the supported machines first. People say price to low but I even gave lots of people even far less than the price because of wait . But I still have the supported machines so never made much off trade up if anything. Getting parts made to get production pricing there has to be lots of parts made, the problem it has a big bill that comes with that . So it is hard to get all parts made and have sit . but lots of the parts I am starting to get lots in stock, but sometimes when ordering it’s how I going to pay that bill and have sitting for next 50 machines. It also has lots to do with some of the machines are still custom , which takes a ton of time. Lots has to do with sending out machines ,and people no paying for shipping or extra parts. Some of the people it has shocked me that they didn’t. Lots has to do with people complaining, it don’t make anything faster ,it slows down everything. Over 2 months ago I had 3 people going to get machines on same day, it would have paid for everything all at once, every part need and whatever machining. And every machine would have been gone . But they held off a bit . To get sales in bulk at same time goes a lot farther in getting stuff done than selling same amount here and there. Like I said before ,I can throw in the cheap parts and send machines, but I don’t. Lots has to do with moving into bigger and bigger machines to fast and not waiting till all other ones are worked out . Lots has to do with there not enough time. Lots has to do with I don’t make turnkey machines and charge large money for them, but show people how easy to make and learn putting your machine together and you know how everything works and what is does. My 8 year old can put one together ,that how simple I try to keep machines, most people have put the machines together even without info. As with machines I tell lots of people to start off with less price machine, it will do the job they need, and the machine they first wanted to get was much more money. I make the same amount of money on all machines, so I don’t try and make you buy what you don’t need. As I started I guess 2 years ago at the same spot where people are now, looking to buy a machine. But there was nothing out there worth money