[sanddrag]

I'm looking to outfit a 13-seat high-school class with CAM software to use with a new HAAS Mini Mill. The idea is that ultimately students would become proficient at the entire process from CAD->CAM->Manufacture. I'd like to limit this to under $4000 if possible, $5000 if there's a compelling reason to push it that high. What's the best I can do on 13 seats for that budget? BobCAM V24 will fit in the budget, but is it good? My only experience is with MasterCAM X.

[dertsap]

CamBam CNC Software
cambam is low cost and would most likely suite the needs for high school students . Lots of hobbyists use it and have good success with it
its not high end like mastercam and such , but its cheap for what it does , and it wouldn't surprise me if you'd be able to work out a package deal .
bobcads ok and works ok but its hard to say if you'd get that many seats within your budget , and if you cant get the 3d milling then don't bother with it , bobcads a bit tragic and limited with 2d in my opinion , at least thats what i found in v23 , v24 may be better
your only other bet would probably be dolphin cam

[sanddrag]

We do have a few rather advanced kids who I bet could learn the ins and outs of a real full-featured CAM package given enough time. I don't want to shortchange those kids. I tried CamBam a few years ago, but coming from MasterCAM I wasn't super impressed. It may be better now if it's been updated. I'll try it. It could probably work, but it doesn't seem like the greatest software. Most everything we do would be 2.5D, but it would be nice to have 3D capability. I can get 3D BobCAD Mill Pro V24 in the budget, but I just don't have any experience with it. What is so 'tragic' about it? Also, does anyone know what VisualMill or OneCNC cost?

[dertsap]

I know what you mean , I like working with mastercam at work but can't afford it for home so i use an array of software to do various things . by tragic i mean that toolpath choices are minimal no ramping contours , pocketing is basic , if you want to d comp then you need to create a contour based off of the model or drawing , offset it then base your toolpath from that , its just things that are basic seem to be missing .
does mastercam not have school offers ?
I think that the fact that they have a haas to play with then they aren't being short changed too much if you need to sacrifice some on the software , if their sharp then they'll pick up what ever they get on anyhow

[sanddrag]

I know what you mean , I like working with mastercam at work but can't afford it for home so i use an array of software to do various things . by tragic i mean that toolpath choices are minimal no ramping contours , pocketing is basic , if you want to d comp then you need to create a contour based off of the model or drawing , offset it then base your toolpath from that , its just things that are basic seem to be missing .
does mastercam not have school offers ?

Yikes, no diameter compensation in BobCAD-CAM? Anyone know if that's fixed for V24? That doesn't seem right. Are you saying you have to draw another contour to get your contour or pocket to come out the right size? MasterCAM educational pricing is good but still too much for me to do the full computer lab like I'd like to. I'd get a single seat of MasterCAM and go to town, but really, the machine was purchased with the intent that students would be learning to use it, to prepare for careers in the manufacturing field. I don't want them developing the idea that the machine can make anything they can model in CAD, with no work in between saving their model and a part coming out. Too many people already have that misconception.

[judleroy]

I don't know about bobcad version 24 but in version 21 you cad do comp. It's not as easy as mastercam where each tool path wizard gives you the option but it's available. It is in the cam side and you add it in where you need it. Ask the people at bobcad to make sure but it should be available. Also if your teaching them machining you should make them learn to write some basic programs by hand. Something with lines arcs and circles. Also drill holes and d comp which there should be tutorials in the haas Manuel for. This is not because they will right code this way in a job setting. It's so there forced to familiarize themselves with the actual code being generated by the cam. It makes it possible to make changes at the control and scan for errors. That's something they will have to do in a job setting. Good luck.
Judleroy

[MikeTheG]

You can call Bobcad and request a live on-line product demonstration. Make sure to ask all your questions and have them show you what you need to see. Then determine if it is right for your school. Also let them know this is for a school , they have educational pricing, and I think schools get free support .

[blowlamp]

We do have a few rather advanced kids who I bet could learn the ins and outs of a real full-featured CAM package given enough time. I don't want to shortchange those kids. I tried CamBam a few years ago, but coming from MasterCAM I wasn't super impressed. It may be better now if it's been updated. I'll try it. It could probably work, but it doesn't seem like the greatest software. Most everything we do would be 2.5D, but it would be nice to have 3D capability. I can get 3D BobCAD Mill Pro V24 in the budget, but I just don't have any experience with it. What is so 'tragic' about it? Also, does anyone know what VisualMill or OneCNC cost?

You wouldn't be shortchanging anyone by going with CamBam.

Those kids would have to be very proficient in 2d/3d CAD/CAM to have outgrown its capabilities.

CamBam is much advanced compared to just a year ago, so it might well be worth your while taking another look. Some even use it in preference to the CAM systems that have already been mentioned here.

Here's a few examples of peoples work:

Started a new watch
Small V8
Key Fobs

Excellent support on a very friendly forum too.


Martin.

[wms]

Also, does anyone know what OneCNC cost?

Call Patrick At OneCNC West and discuse your needs. They also have an educational program.

OneCNC West
1493 Oak Hill Circle.
Upland, California 91784
USA

ph + 1 (909) 931-7811
fax + 1 (909) 9856967

[awerby]

And look at VisualMill from Mecsoft. It's relatively easy to learn and has all the advanced features your students will be able to use. They offer a great deal for schools: a 5-user lab license of their Pro version (which normally sells for $5000) lists for $1250, plus $600 for updates and telephone/web support. I'm sure they can put together something to accommodate your 13 students well within your budget. You can get a live online demo on your computer to see what the program can do. There are also versions that will plug into Solidworks or Rhino, if you need CAD as well.

Andrew Werby
www.computsersculpture.com
Authorized Mecsoft Distributor

[sanddrag]

I had a demo of VisualMill and it looked pretty good. Today I have a demo of OneCNC, and Friday of HSMWorks and BobCAD-CAM. We'll see how it turns out.

[mactec54]

sanddrag

If these kids you are teaching, plan on moving forward into the industry, then you need to get a Cam system that is widely used, as having used most of the high end Cad & Cam packages, I would choose Gibbs Cam & then Master Cam I have both of these Cam programs plus others, so they have been well tryed

[TheCamMan]

NO Comment

[AiR_GuNNeR]

I would check out the SpaceClaim and VisualMill combination. SpaceClaim is super easy to use and you can generate/modify parts very easily. VisualMill will load SpaceClaim parts, and there is a free plugin for SC that will export a selected part and load it into VM automatically. VM isn't as full featured as MC, but again, it is very easy to use and understand.

[osphoto]

You only mentioned CAM. I'm assuming you are already using a CAD system.

What ever CAM you choose, make certain you are able to import from your CAD successfully.

You can always start with Freemill from MecSoft. It's simple and starts you out fairly cheaply (free).

When I used, tried to, Bob Cad, v22/23, I recall that it didn't have a "Z" containment. When I called in to verify, the tech support said there wasn't a way to set a min/max to Z depth. I'd like to think you could, since I was able to do this in Visual Mill.

Glad to hear a Teacher wanting to support their kid's futures in this skill set and making an informed decision. I've often heard to much BS with school administrative folks putting their "crap knowledge" into making decisions about something they absolutely know nothing about.

If you've not make the call to say Master Cam, etc, you might be cable to score something from them since our economy seems to suck.

Good luck with you choice!

[SirDenisNayland]

How about you teach them to use and program the machine manually? Fancy 3D products are fun and all, but its a bit asinine to jump into doing that type of work when the students don't even know how to perform a tool change or write a basic program on their own.

That's the problem with our manufacturing industry, no one with any brains left. Everything thinks its all cad to cam and go. Newsflash, 99.9999999% of all posts are faulty. And no student jumps into full profile 3D machining from school. Those jobs are reserved for the true great machinists who can program everyhibg save for complex axis transformations and full out 3D profiles with their eyes closed behind their back. 99.99% of parts are going to be turned or 2.5d stuff that is almost always faster to program by hand than the redundant, CADwastetimedrawingprettypicturesandrenderinv-CAMwastehourssettingandmeasuringtoolsandplayingwit hpaths-post-wastehourseditingapostonaprogramthatisdoingbasicdr illtap**** that could have been running had you handed the set up guy the print and said go

Kids need real basic skills in this industry. Softwares are not the be all end all. Lots of whiz kids who can model whatever you dream of, but when it comes to putting them on the machine they freeze up because they have no idea what they're doing, no idea how the code really works and are so restricted by their security blanket programs that they're soon out of a job.

[sanddrag]

How about you teach them to use and program the machine manually?

I never said I wasn't going to.

2.5d stuff is almost always faster to program by hand than the redundant, CADwastetimedrawingprettypicturesandrenderinv-CAMwastehourssettingandmeasuringtoolsandplayingwit hpaths-post-wastehourseditingapostonaprogramthatisdoingbasicdr illtap**** that could have been running had you handed the set up guy the print and said go

I'm not sure what kind of simple run-of-the-mill parts you're designing but anything I design in 2.5 D, and for that matter anything I have my kids design, is going to be far more complex than is worth programming by hand. There is no way you could do it more quickly by hand than with CAM. I don't mean to be rude, I just cannot fathom how the above statement could be accurate, having done both manual and CAM programming.

[NCTEACHER]

First congratulations on getting a Haas. Way to go for helping your students get real world skills. We got our Haas Mini-Mill about 5 years ago and now have a ShopBot gantry router w/ 4th axis for wood and a A CNCMasters metal lathe. My students going on to engineering and machining educations always come back to say what an advantage they have with CADD/CAM experience. We use SolidWorks for our modeling and HSMWorks which is embedded in SolidWorks for CAM. I have had the following experience after teaching CADD for 20 years and CAM for 5. SolidWorks is the modeler I think you should use due to it's widespread use in industry and post-secondary institutions and it's logical interface that in my experience today's tech savvy kids understand and it becomes transparent letting them get to learning modeling not the interface of the software. I want the same thing from my CAM, let's learn machining not let's all try to figure out what the programmers where thinking when they designed the software. I have been through, Vectric Aspire (great simple 2D/2.5D and artistic CAM), SolidCam (just kept wanting more $), OneCNC (kids had trouble with the positioning and interface). HSMWorks keeps you in a SolidWorks interface, does 3D and Turning, and you get great support. I value being able to place a phone call and get a human and the humans you talk to want to help education, they do not see us as just another revenue stream. Call them and I am sure they will set you up for 30 days to try it and I think your kids will be making parts quickly. Right now we are making more parts then we ever did and concentrating on learning to make tool paths not looking for some icon or function buried in the software.

[txcncman]

I'm looking to outfit a 13-seat high-school class with CAM software to use with a new HAAS Mini Mill. The idea is that ultimately students would become proficient at the entire process from CAD->CAM->Manufacture. I'd like to limit this to under $4000 if possible, $5000 if there's a compelling reason to push it that high. What's the best I can do on 13 seats for that budget? BobCAM V24 will fit in the budget, but is it good? My only experience is with MasterCAM X.

Have you obtained quotes from the software distributors yet? How much are they telling you the cost will be?

What did http://www.trainingcenters.org/ tell you about working with you when you contacted them and asked for assistance?