[Ron Dunn]

My laptops got dust in the keyboard.
John

It is all that MDF, John ... everyone knows you can't make good machines from MDF!

*big grin*

[Ron Dunn]

Something very annoying.

I didn't highlight / link the words "tablet" and "PC" in my earlier post. That Viglink rubbish seems to be doing it automatically.

Now it looks like I'm endorsing either a seller or a device ... certainly not my intention at all.

Ron.

[microcarve]

Something very annoying.

I didn't highlight / link the words "tablet" and "PC" in my earlier post. That Viglink rubbish seems to be doing it automatically.

Now it looks like I'm endorsing either a seller or a device ... certainly not my intention at all.

Ron.

Send'em a bill. Your time spent promoting and advertising should be worth something. Especially if they make you do it for them....

[ger21]

I have thought about using old PCs with parallel ports, but it just doesn't sit with my vision of how I'd like to work. I'm dreaming of a tablet PC on an articulated arm, driving everything through a touch-screen interface. That means USB only.

What if you mounted a touchscreen LCD monitor to that arm, and had it connected to an PC running Mach3 with a parallel port? You stuff the motherboard in with your stepper drives, so al you have is the touchscreen monitor. Not a whole lot of difference.

[JerryBurks]

I know this forum is leaning 95% to Mach3 and this is surely a proven solution. But when I started building my machine I did not have this expert's "baggage" and picked the Planet-CNC controller as a USB based low-cost solution. I never really considered an LPT based widget.

The Planet-CNC controller is fabulous. The seller in far away Slovakia is probably a one-man garage shop but his support is excellent and there are frequent updates with new features. I have the 9-axis version (use only 3) but there is a new 4-axis controller plus PC software that cost the same or less than Mach3 software. I ordered directly to my US address and got it in a week or so.

I run the PC control software on an old 9 inch netbook, which is easy enough to lug around the machine. For shorter jobs I don't even hook up the power adapter. Or, if I just need to jog the machine I don't need the netbook at all since the controller with jog buttons is independent. It keeps a memory of the position so I can turn power off and back on and the last position comes back. Overall, I think a stand-alone CNC controller with own micro and real time software has some advantages over a serious Windows hack (even if the functionality is excellent). I was never concerned about arcane Mach3 things like core speeds, other programs or drivers interfering or lack of in/out signals.

When the netbook dies I will probably buy a Windows tablet like the Iconia W500 but for now it does the job.

[mcphill]

OK, another option for you... FlashCut.

Runs on Win7, USB.

The difference from MACH3 and EMC is that FlashCut includes the servo/stepper driver boards as part of the system as well. The "package" is more than MACH3 and EMC, but it also includes a ton of hardware as well. You can see my post here where I was trying to find more info about it here:

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/flashc...iscussion.html

FWIW, I will be using this on my next machine build. Everything I have heard about it has been positive - that's pretty rare!

[Ron Dunn]

mcphill, FlashCNC looks like an interesting option. I've read through the thread you referenced, I've looked at their site, and I have to say I agree with your recommendations to the company ... a company that doesn't post prices doesn't get business.

OK, I'll admit that even if they did post prices, the scale of costs mentioned in your thread is probably too rich for me. It seems that the starting price is about three times the price of KFlop or Planet-CNC. I've probably wasted more than that already, but spending it a hundred at a time is far less likely to attract the ire of 'er indoors than over a thousand vanishing from the accounts in one hit

[Ron Dunn]

I've figured out why I dislike some control software.

Last night I was evaluating the Planet-CNC software, and thinking that it was much more what I expected from an application. It isn't perfect, but to me it stands high above the other products I've looked at until now.

Lying in bed this morning I suddenly realised the difference. The products I disliked tried to emulate physical devices, Planet-CNC is a Windows application. The difference is that Planet-CNC works just like other software on the Windows platform.

I think this was so important to me because I spend my life immersed in software. The nature of my work means that I often have to learn a lot of new products very quickly. A standardised user interface means that I can concentrate on the functionality of the application, rather than trying to figure out where stuff is and how to interact with it.

If a user wasn't coming from a computer background, they might find it easier to interact with a screen that looked more like a device with which they were familiar. A person not steeped in Windows (or more general) UI conventions might find Windows more frustrating than a machine panel.

I still think that a little design effort would go a long way towards improving a LOT of CNC software. When there are services available through eLance, etc., that can offer talented graphical designers, UI designers and HMI designers for very low costs, I don't think there is much of an excuse for the terribly ugly commercial products we see in the market.

I think I do, however, understand why my dissatisfaction with some products is at odds with so many satisfied users.

[Sandy H.]

Wow, neat thread. I'm very new at this, but from my experience (manual machines to design engineer as well as a computer user from the early 80's) I don't mind Mach3 at all. For the price (in my mind - demo free; full version $150-200) it is amazing. While I am sure it does have quirks that I have yet to find and I would love it if it were more intuitive to customize, I got my first project up and running within a day and made my first customizations within that same day. Not too bad in my book. My first Linux machine took longer than that to figure out for sure.

I do think that if a person walked into a mass-production facility or even a small CNC shop, the Mach3 interface would all of the sudden make sense. Not that it is the most efficient way to display information, but that it follows the evolution of manual machine to semi-automated machine to CNC (back when computers were still huge). I am adaptable enough at this point to use it and learn the limitations. I am also not nearly skilled enough to do what you have done and attempt my own system (kudos, BTW).

I look forward to more information about your MV3 experience. There is a part of me that is already considering an upgrade and my first full machine isn't even up yet. . .

Sandy.

[gmfoster]

Ron
Some of us think that those UI's that you are so fond of suck.. Constantly changing for no reason other than to keeps programmers working. The new Gmail ui is a great example of change for the sake of change. Widows ribbon was a close second.

As you say some(many) of us think a machine controller should look like a machine controller. The windows UI changes constantly. A machine controllers interface shouldn't change for the sake of change.

I don't need an icon for a dro, a dro will work just fine. I see why you might want your machine controller to look like hot mail but I stay as far away from hotmail and live as I can.

I much prefer email reflectors for support to forums.

So while I understand why someone like you would want a complicated Windows type UI the last thing I need is the constant change of windows.

I still use XP have one Vista that has been constant problems and dread the day I have to go to Windows 7.

The Mach email list is still the most consistent mach support in spite of many efforts to to get a decent forum going.

I don't mean this to sound as an attack and if it does I'm sorry. But there is plenty about mach that needs fixed the issue of it looking like a machine controller doesn't seem to be one of them.

You wrote software that looks pretty according to you but doesn't work. Maybe it should work first and then look pretty?

Also one should realize that there are really two parts of Mach. If you chose not to use the parallel port that is just fine. The pp driver is stand alone and the gcode interrupter and planner will run just fine without it.

Garry

[Ron Dunn]

Garry, I think we're probably in agreement

You're from the end of the spectrum that likes machine-style interfaces and email lists. I'm from the other extreme that likes UI standards and forums. Plenty of room for both.

I'll just correct one little misunderstanding. My own controller software certainly wasn't pretty, it was command-line only. I agree with you - get it right, then make it look good. I just didn't get it "right" enough.

[dcartier]

Yes, it is, I guess. But PCI parallel port cards are cheap and USB is not mandatory for me.

OK, I can understand that! (^_^)

Actually EMC is limited only to devices that are compatible with the RealTime kernel extensions and that has a driver for the HAL (hardware abstraction layer). Quite often this means the parallel port, but their are many other powerful (and afforable) hardware interfaces for EMC. For examples look at Mesa Digital or Jon Elson's boards amonst many others.

Unfortunately, this excludes the use over USB due to the realtime requirement.

[gmfoster]

Garry, I think we're probably in agreement

You're from the end of the spectrum that likes machine-style interfaces and email lists. I'm from the other extreme that likes UI standards and forums. Plenty of room for both.

I'll just correct one little misunderstanding. My own controller software certainly wasn't pretty, it was command-line only. I agree with you - get it right, then make it look good. I just didn't get it "right" enough.

Well I did have that understanding because I had understood you didn't want to use Mach because of the UI and wrote your own so it could be prettier. I guess I just assumed you were successful at the prettier!:wave:

I am not a total fan of Mach as they never seem to complete anything. There is a lot of stuff that almost works or works for some. However it seems head and shoulders above anything else. I bough my license several years ago but the last I used my little router I was still using Turbo CNC on DOS. I need to get a router running that is strong enough to really do something.

[Roux]

Hi Ron,
thanks for a very useful thread.

I am based in Brisbane and looking at starting out with a lightweight cnc.
I have looked at the V90 but have questions you might be able to answer easily.

Were all the packaged electronics compatible with Aus power supply?
What router / spindle are you running?

I always worry about compatibility when buying electrical items from OS.

cheers,
Deon

[Ron Dunn]

Hi Deon,

I bought the 40V transformer in my electronics. To make it compatible with 240V requires cutting and joining a couple of wires. It is explained in the following note, but be careful, another customer apparently got a device with slightly different wiring:

http://www.probotix.com/downloads/24...wer_supply.pdf

Mine was exactly as shown in the documentation, everything worked first time.

I use a Proxxon LB/E as the spindle on my V90. GREAT little spindle. Reliable, quiet, works well:

Long Neck Straight Drill/Grinder LB/E #28485 - My Tool Store

When I bought my machine I got the standard Dremel mount and bought a Dremel 300 locally. Piece. Of. Rubbish. I went through two of them in a couple of weeks before finding out about the Proxxon.

The only problem with the Proxxon is that there is no standard mount available for the shaft. I'll gladly share my drawings and files if you decide to go down this path.

A hint. If you're going to buy everything from Probotix, look into placing TWO orders - one for the machine, one for the electronics, and have them shipped separately. I had everything shipped together, and got a nice little bill from Customs because it was over the tax free threshold. You might find that two lots of shipping are more expensive than the tax, but it is still worth checking to save a few dollars.

If you want local electronics, look at Homann Designs web site. He has a Gecko-based kit that has everything you need, and by the time you add shipping it is around the same price. The advantage of the Probotix kit over Homann's is that if you buy the ready-to-run option from Probotix, everything will be assembled in a case. Homann doesn't do that.

Does that help?

Ron.

[Roux]

Thanks for the info Ron.

Your advice is really appreciated. I'll definitely look into the spindle.
How does it rate in regards to noise and free play?

Sadly when it comes to playing with 240v wiring, I'd be more comfortable walking blindfolded across a freeway..

Are there any compatible native power supplies that might fit the bill?

[dorz]

Roux,

the kit i bought from cncrouterparts.com with 3 steppers, g540, power supply and cables is a bit easier... the power supply it comes with has a 110/230v switch on the side, make sure its 230v, use a plug with bare wires, and screw the active, neutral and earth into the block on the end... thats it

[Roux]

thanks dorz.
I'll look it up.

I'm surprised that there are no "ready to run" power, controller and drive kits available here in Aus.

[Ron Dunn]

Why engineering stores will die.

I stuffed up a shaft collar by ham-fisted tightening, and on Monday I ordered a replacement and a handful of other items at a local bearing supplier.

I was given the choice of overnight delivery for an extra charge, or 2-3 day delivery free of charge. Given that I wouldn't have time to replace the collar until the week-end, 2-3 day delivery was fine.

Today I rang the store to see if they'd received the bearings. "Oh, we haven't ordered them yet, we're waiting until we need some more things from that distributor to make a bigger order."

B*stards. Idiots. I would have gladly paid the extra fee if you'd told me the REAL story on Monday! Now I've paid it, but I'm not happy.

How long would I have waited if I hadn't called you to check on progress?

I should have ordered online rather than trying to support a local business.

[louieatienza]

Why engineering stores will die.

I stuffed up a shaft collar by ham-fisted tightening, and on Monday I ordered a replacement and a handful of other items at a local bearing supplier.

I was given the choice of overnight delivery for an extra charge, or 2-3 day delivery free of charge. Given that I wouldn't have time to replace the collar until the week-end, 2-3 day delivery was fine.

Today I rang the store to see if they'd received the bearings. "Oh, we haven't ordered them yet, we're waiting until we need some more things from that distributor to make a bigger order."

B*stards. Idiots. I would have gladly paid the extra fee if you'd told me the REAL story on Monday! Now I've paid it, but I'm not happy.

How long would I have waited if I hadn't called you to check on progress?

I should have ordered online rather than trying to support a local business.

It's like the express lanes on the 401 in Canada. Yonge St,. 3km. Then when you exit, you're in the 'collector' lane and see another sign, Yonge St., 2km. WTF?!