[dustincram]

Hi All! I am looking to buy a used machining center in the next few weeks and am driving myself a bit nuts with all of the options. I am a mechanical engineer who does design work and some prototyping for aerospace and scientific markets. I tend to work in a variety of materials, AL, steel, TI, plastics, but mostly AL. Things I work on tend to be pretty good sized, and I am thinking a 40X20X20 machine is a good medium size machine. I have about 30K cash to work with, and these have been my options-

1- 1995 Haas VF-4, 7500rpm, clean and under power, $32,500. Nothing fancy, brush motors, umbrella tool holder, 15HP, no other options.

2- 1988 Mori Seiki MV55 with a yasnac control AND a Mighty Commet VMC, 1998. $25,000 for both of them, under power making parts. Don't know spindle speeds yet, price probably negotiable.

3- 2001 Hardinge VMC 1000 II 40X20X20 vmc, 12000rpm spindle with siemens sinumerik control, side mount arm tool changer, remote mpg, $29,000. Not under power but looks clean.

4-1995 Shizouka SV-4020S, Fanuc 18M control, 12500rpm spindle, $28000. Cleanish looking. Under power making parts.

Ideas? Anything I should run from screaming?

I currently run 3 CNC machines, a Takisawa lathe, Gorton Mill, and Hendy lathe, all Mach3 retrofits that I did.

Thank you for any comments, Ideas, etc.
Dustin

[underthetire]

Run from the hardinge. You do not want a seimens, especially an old one!

That old mori will completely outcut the rest on hard material, but it's slowwww. Yasnac is not my choice. You can still get any part you need for the machine.

The 4020 Shizuoka was a decent, pretty solid machine. Not terribly slow, but should be 10k rpm max on those. The later version 4024 had higher rpm. Not a bad choice if in good shape, however I think Shizuoka is now gone, so some part availability problems. Call yamazen to find out for sure.

don't know much about the old haas or the other one.

[dustincram]

Thank you for your thoughts, I appreciate you taking the time to think about it and reply. It is very helpful to know something besides what the machinery dealer tells you :-)

[dustincram]

Also thanks for the tip on calling Yamazen, they can get parts for them from Japan, pre-pay and wait, non refundable, non cancel-able, put "probably" possible.

[dustincram]

Hi all, looks like this might be the machine I go with, 94 VF3 for $18K. any advise on getting it ready to move? Thanks!

[underthetire]

Good choice.

How far is the machine moving?

At minimum you want to block the head behind the spindle to the table. Never block on the nose!

My typical machine move prep, unless it's only going a couple miles...
Block head, and atc, rust prevent everything. Lps3 or spray grease. It may be sunny today, but it will always rain on the day your moving. Sounds corny, but better to be prepared.
Strap everything. Lucky individuals I've prepped machines got brand new ratchet straps more than once.
Tarp over the machine, shrink wrap, then packing tape around that.

If it will shake rattle or roll, it will break or fall off the truck.

[A1CNC]

I have a mighty comet very similar to the one in the picture.

Mine is a VMC 500P. 20 x 16 x 21 8krpm spindle, rigid tapping, same mitsubishi control as the picture. It weighs 8K #.

Machine Parts are available through Mighty cnc in CA.
Mitsubishi control parts are available.

I would think hard about 2 machines for $25K negotiable vs 1 for $18k especially when the mighty comet is a 1998. But it depends on the space you have too.

[dustincram]

I have a mighty comet very similar to the one in the picture.

Mine is a VMC 500P. 20 x 16 x 21 8krpm spindle, rigid tapping, same mitsubishi control as the picture. It weighs 8K #.

Machine Parts are available through Mighty cnc in CA.
Mitsubishi control parts are available.

I would think hard about 2 machines for $25K negotiable vs 1 for $18k especially when the mighty comet is a 1998. But it depends on the space you have too.

Thanks for the input, I was seriously thinking about it but I just don't have the space or the resources to up-size. I am in a 1200sf unit with a 200sf office, and have 2 lathes, one knee mill, vertical and horizontal band saws, table saws, vibe finisher, Shopmaster 300 welder with tig and mig, tables, etc etc.... It seems like rent would go up about $1500/mo to get into something bigger (3000-4000sf) and that plus moving and buying machines + tooling them up just is not going to happen right now. Also, they threw in the Haas 4'th axis and some tooling for $2500, which seems like a descent deal, $20500 all said and done. It was up and running, clean, and close by. Also, I was just not sure abut the older 88' machine with the 3500rpm spindle, it might sit in the corner and make gravity most of the time....

Dustin

[dustincram]

Good choice.

How far is the machine moving?

At minimum you want to block the head behind the spindle to the table. Never block on the nose!

My typical machine move prep, unless it's only going a couple miles...
Block head, and atc, rust prevent everything. Lps3 or spray grease. It may be sunny today, but it will always rain on the day your moving. Sounds corny, but better to be prepared.
Strap everything. Lucky individuals I've prepped machines got brand new ratchet straps more than once.
Tarp over the machine, shrink wrap, then packing tape around that.

If it will shake rattle or roll, it will break or fall off the truck.

Thanks for the tips on moving. I went ahead and bought it so I have the manuals now and there is good info in there on how to set it up for trucking it without a pallet/crate. There are holes under the counterweight for a support, and they just have a bracket going from the head behind the spindle to the table. They also recommend a block of wood on top of the counterweight with a bolt in it to keep it from flopping around.

They also have these metal tabs that bolt on top of the 3/4in leveling bolts to chain to so you don't need to drape straps or chains over the thing, seems pretty straightforward.

The machine move is about 30 miles, not too bad really. I will call some riggers Monday, hopefully I can keep it under $2500 loaded, trucked, and unloaded.

Thanks again for the reply!
Dustin

[A1CNC]

"I am in a 1200sf unit with a 200sf office, and have 2 lathes, one knee mill, vertical and horizontal band saws, table saws, vibe finisher, Shopmaster 300 welder with tig and mig, tables, etc etc.... "

I have to LOL, sorry no disrespect intended. I think I am Laughing at myself.

I have 3 vmc's, A Hardinge superslant, A grizzly 9x 20 cnc lathe, 2 Horizontal bandsaws, 2 large toolboxes, drill-presses, etc.... In a 20 x 24 garage.

It sounds like you got a good deal on the Haas. With the tooling and 4th that will help get you going sooner. good luck with your new toy.

[underthetire]

Be prepared, most shops loose the brackets. Just bring everything you think you might need,

[dustincram]

Be prepared, most shops loose the brackets. Just bring everything you think you might need,

Good idea, I think I am just going to make up most of it, I am hoping the local haas dealer can get me drawings.

Dustin

[dustincram]

"I am in a 1200sf unit with a 200sf office, and have 2 lathes, one knee mill, vertical and horizontal band saws, table saws, vibe finisher, Shopmaster 300 welder with tig and mig, tables, etc etc.... "

I have to LOL, sorry no disrespect intended. I think I am Laughing at myself.

I have 3 vmc's, A Hardinge superslant, A grizzly 9x 20 cnc lathe, 2 Horizontal bandsaws, 2 large toolboxes, drill-presses, etc.... In a 20 x 24 garage.

It sounds like you got a good deal on the Haas. With the tooling and 4th that will help get you going sooner. good luck with your new toy.

That is awesome, well done. I had most of this stuff in a garage of a place I rented in Montana while I was going to school. I was nuts, going out there when it was 5 degrees and working on those retro fits. Probably learned as much doing that as in engineering classes :-)

I need space now to build stuff, I've got a project that is 10'long X 8'wide, 8' tall right now, and a couple of smaller ones, plus I forgot about the forklift, man that thing takes up a lot of room. Wish I could put it outside, it just rains too much around here.

Thanks for the post, have fun with your garage full of goodies :-)
Dustin

Dustin

[dustincram]

I have a mighty comet very similar to the one in the picture.

Mine is a VMC 500P. 20 x 16 x 21 8krpm spindle, rigid tapping, same mitsubishi control as the picture. It weighs 8K #.

Machine Parts are available through Mighty cnc in CA.
Mitsubishi control parts are available.

I would think hard about 2 machines for $25K negotiable vs 1 for $18k especially when the mighty comet is a 1998. But it depends on the space you have too.

They just put the commet up for sale on craigslist, ultra cheap, $5000. Not sure what is wrong with it if anything, just thought it was interesting. Wish it was a little bigger! Half tempted to buy it anyway...

Comet Vertical Milling Machine VMC-500 P

Dustin

[dak1]

"I am in a 1200sf unit with a 200sf office, and have 2 lathes, one knee mill, vertical and horizontal band saws, table saws, vibe finisher, Shopmaster 300 welder with tig and mig, tables, etc etc.... "

I have to LOL, sorry no disrespect intended. I think I am Laughing at myself.

I have 3 vmc's, A Hardinge superslant, A grizzly 9x 20 cnc lathe, 2 Horizontal bandsaws, 2 large toolboxes, drill-presses, etc.... In a 20 x 24 garage.

It sounds like you got a good deal on the Haas. With the tooling and 4th that will help get you going sooner. good luck with your new toy.

That's space utilization!!!!

[A1CNC]

That's a good deal in my eyes for the Comet. I paid $4500 for mine with no tooling. Mine has programmable coolant but that's the only difference I see.

Space utilization, I guess. Good thing I am not claustrophobic!

I really need to either add on or Move!