[Larst]

Hello,

I have started in on a 25" x 25" Solsylva build and have been happily working away on the bed and x-rails. My question is how far can I advance on the build before I should have the electronics and leadscrews available. I am looking at the holes which need to be cut for mounting of the stepper motors and am wondering how standardized are the locations of these. I am planning on using the Xylotec stepper and controller package and don't want to find out that I have cut the mounting holes in the wrong place after screwing and clueing the rear mounting 1x4 onto the x-rails.

Any input you may offer is appreciated.

[brtech]

NEMA motors have standardized mounting. That is actually what the NEMA standard specifies. Of course, there are no NEMA police, so you could find some vendor with a non-standard pattern calling it NEMA-23, but that's rare I think.

[Larst]

Wow... I get the feeling I chose the right forum to help me out as my build progresses. Thanks for the quick response!

I'll keep building happily away as I await my packages.




National Electrical Manufacturers Association. Learn something every day (one of my primary purposes for embarking on this project)!

[louieatienza]

The xylotex steppers will definitely work with the solsylva plans; in fact my first build was also a solsylva.


There are actually many sizes of steppers (and servos) outside the NEMA standard sizes. Sanyo Denki for example has dozens of sizes, one that is only about 1/16" smaller than NEMA23...

[Larst]

Looking around the web, I have seen some concerns regarding issues of resonance with the Xylotec control packages with some recommending the Gecko G540 controller to avoid this issue. The Xylotec package appeals to me as it appears to be about as close to a "plug and play" system as I am likely to source.

Electronics is a bit of a weakness for me and while I am eager to learn my primary concern is getting a machine up and running without undue complication for my first try at this.

Suggestions?

Thanks

[louieatienza]

Looking around the web, I have seen some concerns regarding issues of resonance with the Xylotec control packages with some recommending the Gecko G540 controller to avoid this issue. The Xylotec package appeals to me as it appears to be about as close to a "plug and play" system as I am likely to source.

Electronics is a bit of a weakness for me and while I am eager to learn my primary concern is getting a machine up and running without undue complication for my first try at this.

Suggestions?

Thanks

It may depend on your leadscrew decision. The resonance issue for xylotex comes around the 300-500rpm range. If you use 4 or 5 start leadscrew, you could still rapid at 150ipm before you hit it. If you use a finer pitch screw you may be want to consider the 269in-oz steppers over the 425in-oz.

Many people here have built mechanical dampers which helps immensely. I don't have the thread saved, but you can find it here.

There's a seller on ebay named deepgroove9 that sells ready-to-run Gecko540 boxes but you'll have to make your own wires (just some soldering).

It wouldn't hrt to know what kind of leadscrew you're using, this way you can order the correct pulleys and bearings and AB nuts, and you can make up the bearing blocks and such.

[jm82792]

From my conclusion you have two good options for drivers.
Gecko or HobbyCNC are the way to go
Xylotex is nice but they are too expensive and I am scared of the billion warnings that came with my drivers compared to bullet proof Geckos; or the far cheaper HobbyCNC's that people like.
Resonance can be an issue, I have had it with my Xyloex and guess I'd get 25% more speed without it.
Geckos supposedly have an electronics based fix for it.

[Larst]

Hi louieatienza,

Again, thanks for the advice. Sounds like I should be able to get away with the Xylotec setup. I did see a few comments about attaching a mechanical dampener but would always prefer to just avoid the problem in the first place rather than trying to fix it later.

From your post it sounds like I shouldn't be too worried if I don't push my machine too hard and take some care with specifying my leadscrews and associated parts. I was planning on going with 1/2" leadscrews and matching associated hardware but hadn't settled on pitch so your note arrives at a good time. I am hoping to get some time to sit down over the next couple days to firm up my mechanicals and electrics shopping list.

[louieatienza]

Hi louieatienza,

Again, thanks for the advice. Sounds like I should be able to get away with the Xylotec setup. I did see a few comments about attaching a mechanical dampener but would always prefer to just avoid the problem in the first place rather than trying to fix it later.

From your post it sounds like I shouldn't be too worried if I don't push my machine too hard and take some care with specifying my leadscrews and associated parts. I was planning on going with 1/2" leadscrews and matching associated hardware but hadn't settled on pitch so your note arrives at a good time. I am hoping to get some time to sit down over the next couple days to firm up my mechanicals and electrics shopping list.

If you use 1/2", 4- or 5-start leadscrews, you can expect about 150-175ipm rapids or more without stalling. I use 8-start leadscrews, and can rapid over 250ipm on the x (though I limited it to 200) and 400ipm on the y. I'm surprised all the time by how little I actually need in terms of power to do what I need to do.

By the way, if you go into the solsylva machine gallery page, you'll see my machine, at the bottom of the page, with a link to a video of it in action. It is now residing at my friend's house, and he's starting to get some good use of it too!

[Larst]

Hello All,

Didn't disappear completely. Continuing to build on my Solsylva 25 x 25 machine in my tiny amount of spare time. Pictures attached (If I've done this right) of progress to date.

I've done just about as much as I can without hardware and am anxiously awaiting delivery of leadscrews, anti-backlash nuts, pulleys, belt, etc. Sourcing leadscrews in Canada was a bit of a challenge but Ringball came through by supplying some Nook Industries parts for me. Things should move forward pretty quickly again once all my parts are in. As you can see from the photo, the Xylotex steppers and controller are here and ready to go.

Thanks for the advice on leadscrews. I have gone with 1/2" 10TPI 5 Start leadscrews on X and Y and a 3/8" screw on the Z. Should give decent speed with the 425 oz steppers. I am planning on building some dampeners to deal with resonance issues as this looks reasonably straightforward.

Cheers.

[louieatienza]

Wow that's looking great!

[crane550]

Looks like your off to a good start! You will like the 5 start screws. It is what I used on my Solsylva 25x25, and I could get up to 600ipm rapids.

Personally I would recommend the G540. It really is a night and day improvement from the HobbyCNC controller.

Check out my build here. Google "Crane's Solsylva" and you should find the build thread on this site. Hopefully you can get some ideas from it to help you along.

Good luck! I will be watching.

[CarveOne]

Thanks for the advice on leadscrews. I have gone with 1/2" 10TPI 5 Start leadscrews on X and Y and a 3/8" screw on the Z. Should give decent speed with the 425 oz steppers. I am planning on building some dampeners to deal with resonance issues as this looks reasonably straightforward.

Cheers.

Run it awhile without the dampers to see if you really need them. I found that the 5 start lead screws and the Xylotex/425oz combination stayed below the rpm range where resonance begins. I eventually moved the 5 start lead screws to my latest steel machine build, but I had confirmed that it would improve the stalling situation on my 25x37 Solsylva machine.

I would also recommend the G540 to permanently get rid of resonance problems. They are worth the extra money versus going with the low cost drivers.

[Larst]

Thanks for the continuing advice.

I did look into the G540 drivers a bit but in the end the Xylotex looked to me like the most simple place to start. Plug and play from a well established player (certainly was happy with Xylotex' response time to my order and a few questions). I can always upgrade my drivers later or go that way on my second machine. I mainly want to get something up and running reasonably well on my first try and I think my current setup will probably do the trick. Provided this goes well I can see wanting to move up to a bigger table size pretty quickly (already dreaming up uses which would require more machining room).

My main use is anticipated to be cutting foam. I have been playing around with carbon fiber layups using vacuum bagging but am never satisfied with my hand-formed foam cores (as a sculpter, I kind of suck). I see the CNC router as a way of forming cores and having everything come out much more symetrical than hand forming. Likely start by cutting profiles and laminating into 3D parts. Possibly later move on to 3D machining (finances willing). First just need to get something working. Trying not to get too excited about the possibilities before actually getting this thing up and running.

I will take the advice regarding running the machine sans-dampeners, though. Thanks.

I did spend quite a bit of time looking at your build log, Crane550, before starting in on my own. Inspired me to take a shot at it myself. Very nice machine.

[Larst]

Hello,

So progress continues to sputter along. Motors are mounted up, leadscrews and antibacklash nuts are installed for X and Y axis. Things are looking good for setting up my Z axis now.

I am getting down to the point where I should probably purchase my router. I see on DeWalt's website that the Solsylva recommended D26670 unit is discontinued. Anyone know whether there is a current model with the same features as the D26670 (did a quick CNC Zone search but didn't find anything on the forums)? Or should I be looking in a completely different direction? Suggestions?

I am thinking the router should be in my hands before beginning the Z axis as the type of router used will likely affect the design of the carriage. I am thinking of deviating a bit away from the Solsylva plans for the Z carriage and, as I have a welder, I am thinking I can simplify things a bit by just welding the rails together. This may also lead to a more rigid carriage.

Thanks

P.S. - A hint for future builders of this project... never allow 10-24 and 10-32 nuts to become mixed together!!!

[CarveOne]

I would recommend the Dewalt DW-611 as a very good round metal body router. Easy to mount and has a good speed control built in. I like it well enough to buy a spare one. PreciseBits.com may have the precision collets and nuts for it by now. They were working on it. I haven't seen any vibration issues with mine. They come in chromed metal or black plastic. I put the chromed buttons on my first CNC machine, a Solsylva 25x37.

BTW, you can close up the hole in the pipe rails on your machine with beauty buttons from the specialty parts bins at Lowes or Home Depot.

[crane550]

I used the deWalt router at first, but moved to a Porter Cable, and then to the Bosch. The Bosch is by far my favorite. The Dewalt worked, but the upgrade to the Porter Cable 1 3/4 horse was a night and day difference upgrade. I don't know if the DeWalt also supports 1/2" bits. Mine didn't. Something worth checking. For what it's worth, I would recommend the Porter Cable over the DeWalt, but both will get the job done for you. If I were to go again right now, I would actually check out the Hitachi or Bosch. The Bosch is also quieter then both I had before.

Alex

[Larst]

Thanks guys,

Hoping to go router shopping today. I also like the idea of end caps for the rails. Never even thought about that, but would definately give the machine a more finished look.

[CarveOne]

Thanks guys,

Hoping to go router shopping today. I also like the idea of end caps for the rails. Never even thought about that, but would definitely give the machine a more finished look.

The plugs just gives it a finished look. You could also make wood dowel plugs for the pipes and shape them a little.

There are many options for routers available, I just prefer the aluminum case and round shape versus a non-round shape that is not as easy to fit into a mount.

[louieatienza]

The plugs just gives it a finished look. You could also make wood dowel plugs for the pipes and shape them a little.

There are many options for routers available, I just prefer the aluminum case and round shape versus a non-round shape that is not as easy to fit into a mount.

Aye aye... try to find a router that has a metal housing where the critical parts are, namely the bearings by the collet.