[pete from TN]

Mornin' dudes.... More tubing bender work today hoping to get it done soon. Found out that I am probably going to need a die to complete it so I can ensure that the alignment is right. May just tack things together in that part and then lock it down once I have a die here.

Got a text message from Brendon in New Zealand last night. He seems like a really cool fellow. Apparently his machine seems to be working okay now. Unfortunately he does not seem to understand our time difference completely because I got the message at like 1:30 AM last night.... hehehe Lucky for him I was up kinda late and just hit the sack a couple minutes before he texted. Actually I say texted but It is some kinda text/email thing that I cannot access once it is completed on my phone. I am kinda new to the whole smart phone thing I will admit. Either way it was nice to hear from him again.

Oh well gonna head out there now and see what damage I can do hehehe peace

Pete

[skray775]

:cheers:

Hope the mail or ups man comes early!

[pete from TN]

thanks Kelley, Yeah I am under the impression it is coming UPS so POSSIBLY tomorrow. If it does come tomorrow I will be pretty busy this weekend. I will be both trying out the VMC to see if it fixes my problems and also I am planning to head into Knoxville tomorrow morning to get a refill of my Argon tank for my Tig welder so I can finally weld together this Tubing bender I have been working on. Basically finished the last of the machine work today and mitered all of the tubing for it. Should be able to start assembling it this weekend. Funny that if all goes well after all this time I will have both my VMC AND my Tube bending capabilities engaged finally in one weekend. My wife has been eyeing some sweet Safari Racks for her Isuzu Trooper that she wants me to build for her. The plan is to build up her trooper as kind of a show truck and put some logos on it for my shop to see if I can drum up some business for the shop. We plan on making the safari rack and then a set of nerfs and custom bumpers for it and maybe throw on a little lift and some mudders. Mostly a street truck but with a hint of exploration vehicle. She had wanted that truck for awhile as it is her favorite SUV and we finally got her one this past summer. She absolutely loves that truck and I am liking it too.. Nice and comfy with lots of room and actually wheels pretty good for a stocker. Hers is a champagne color and it is in pretty good shape for a 1998 model.

Anyways, I hope that I can get both tools built and working here soon as I REALLY NEED THEM to make money with here. I also need to pick up some more steel for a machined shaft a customer wants me to make. He brought over a nice little scrolling four jaw chuck that is thread mount today that I need to adapt to it. Gonna be some time on the lathe in my future that is for sure.... Hope your Sweet IH is runnning well for you man, peace

Pete

[thefu]

hey pete, you have any experience with npt tapped holes? ive got a job with 2 3/8 npt and 2 1/2 npt holes that need to be done per part and 100 parts total. you ever done any npt thread milling maybe?

3/8-18 Carbide Thread Mill NPT

1/2-14 Carbide Thread Mill NPT

thinking those would be better than purchasing 2 tap holders and rigid tapping them, even if i used an npt reamer the cost in tooling would make this job not so worth it.

[pete from TN]

Never threadmilled an NPT yet but I know it is done.... Those threadmills you showed should work fine, the way I understand it most guys just make a multiple pass threadmill helixing in and out at the thread pitch with one of those tapered threadmills. Again never done it as most of the time I usually have only had to make a couple NPT holes and just used a hand tap guide in the mills spindle. If I was gonna make a couple hundred of them I would sure ante up for the threadmill and experiment with it until I got a good hole setup. I always seem to go too deep on them and that is important depending on application. Had to learn to back off and try fit the parts.

Here is a thread on PM about it that seems to help explain it. There is a link to another thread there you can read about too... Lots of knowledgeable pro's over there but sometimes they can get cranky.... hehehe

Thread milling tapered pipe thread....

I would definitely pick up a tapered threadmill and play with it carefully. There is a program you can download on the vardex site that can actually help you write the code but have not played with it yet. What is the material? Peace

Pete

[thefu]

i think ill go the threadmill route for sure then. just need to see if i can i can find them for a little cheaper than that price.

material is 6061-t7.

even if i had to buy another tap holder and tap like i know how, it still is a good job at $75/part. just trying to save every penny i can to move into a new shop soon.

[pete from TN]

Just placed an order with Mcmaster carr tonight for the Thomson shafting that will become the main pivot pin and the die puller arm pin for my bender. Also ordered some grade eight bolts and nylock nuts for the ram mounts and some other hardware for the wheels I am gonna build for it so I can roll the ***** around the shop easy. With all the heavy wall steel in it this thing should be pretty damn heavy once it is finished. Can't wait to see how it works. Found a good deal on Pirate 4x4 for a place that sells the Pro-tools dies for a discounted price. Hoping to be able to pick up a job that needs a die here soon so I can make somebody else pay for the die hehehe...

Was looking on Pirate and there are some SERIOUSLY skilled fabricators over there, some really wicked suspension designs and some amazing Tig welding. I need to practice more and get more consistent. Can't wait to get my bottle filled as I have been misering it since business slowed down some, will be nice to be able to practice some more in the slow times. Peace

Pete

[thefu]

cant wait to see the finished product on that bender.

I just got a job for 15 turbo manifolds, i keep telling people im not a fab shop but some how more and more work keeps flowing in. Ill get to double dip on this manifold job since it uses a custom steel flange and their machine shop charges $50 each with a 30 day lead time. I just sent the CR steel out for waterjet on the rough parts and i need to make a fixture over the weekend to hold 4-6 at a time.

btw i have bendtech for solidworks if you ever need me to give you the bend cut length and start lengths as well as degrees of bend etc. I just need to walk you through getting the spring back numbers on your bender.

if you dont have bendtech..i highly suggest you get atleast the cheapest version.

[pete from TN]

That is not a bad price really. Maritool has some nice ones but they are over a hundred a piece. Lakeshore is known for having decent threadmills too.... Dunno how well a rigid tap with an NPT tap would do here but since it is aluminum I would seriously just threadmill it. If you get good code the resultant hole will be real pretty too... Some of the threadmills you can use for multiple threads but probably not that one. Good luck and post some pics and your code once you get it sorted so we can all learn from it. Peace

Pete

[thefu]

i just found this website.

THREAD MILLS SOLID CARBIDE HELICAL FLUTED

im going to order from them and give it a shot. i dont think ill break a tool but id rather learn on less expensive tooling incase a whoops moment happens

[pete from TN]

Damn man I am practically begging for work here and you are rollin' in it. What the hell am I doing wrong here.... Surprised you would make a turbo flange out of CRS, that **** warps bad with head and welding.... Even milling it you need to machine both sides usually or it will tweak pretty bad on ya.. Are you making the turbo mount flanges or an intake manifold flange? Mostly the intakes are aluminum or stainless. I made or rather repaired an aluminum intake housing for a fellow a few weeks ago that was for a 240sx with a skyline engine in it. The manifold was huge and the guy who made it used too thick of plate I thought but he needed a bunch of bungs welded in and it did not hold air in a couple spots so we stitched it up for him. Was hoping he would bring it by so I could get a ride in it but he never did. He did text me some pics tho....

My bender is nothing special, just your run of the mill homebuilt bender. It is actually quite simple design and lots of folks have built them. Once i get it sorted and painted I will post some pics and maybe a video of it working. I just need to be able to bend tube here for my customers and some projects I want to make. Always had to farm out my bending and it sucks to have to take it to someone else and listen to them whine about how long it is taking you to lay out the bend for them and they never seem to understand it. The Bendtech software is pretty cool but I seriously doubt I will be needing it. Most of the stuff I will be making is simple nerfs and bumpers and roof racks etc. Nothing that takes more than some tape measurements and some careful eyeing. If I do happen to come up with a nice design for a marketable product I will probably make a decent jig and make them that way. The notching will be done with the lathe setup I was talking about. Just another tool in the arsenal to make my customers happy. I have a lady right now who is restoring a suburu Brat and she wants me to make a custom front bumper that is similar to the ones they came with but nicer. She also wants me to help her make a parts car that was cut in half into a little pickup bed trailer. It seems everyone who calls me has interesting ideas but only a few of them actually have any real money and intent to move forward with building the thing. The bender will help me do some things I have wanted to do for awhile and if I can find a decent trade for the bronco I will certainly be making some cool stuff for that bad boy.. peace

Pete

[thefu]

ah man you will get work in! ive been in this "scene" for many many years and once old friends heard i had a mill they stop by every day bringing me things they want and dropping off deposit checks.

industry standard is to use crs, when you weld the runners you clamp the flange down so it stays fairly flat then once the manifold is complete you deck it on a horizontal belt sander, exhaust gaskets take up the rest of whatever is not flat. no one machines both sides because they get decked before and after welding.



making manifolds similar to that, got an order for 15 in 30 days but they want 2 by next friday. charging $450 each

ive always wanted a tubing bender, after yours is done and you use it maybe ill make one. ive got the jd2 files so i technically could plasma cut out the pieces and then mill the rest like the holes and whatnot. ive got a boring head for the mill too thanks to our friend that brings gifts.

i think once your mill is running and the word gets out and you charge a fair reasonable price, you will get plenty of work. the economy isnt like it was a few years back but its still alive and people are still buying stuff. just seems people are more wise about how much they pay for things.

[pete from TN]

Most of the flanges I have seen were all stainless steel.... I know some folks make them from mild steel but they will rust up on you even with coatings. The stainless can crack but that is more a build design issue than a materials issue. This is something I have researched quite a bit as I intend to put a 3800 turbo into my fiero project car at some point. There are lots of guys running some monster ball bearing turbos on these motors making stupid HP. You are making that entire manifold including the stainless tube for $450.00? That is actually pretty reasonable if you ask me. There is a lot of work in that setup. You should make a video of you tig welding up those pipes so we can all see how it's done hehehe... I was thinking of using some stainless rod to weld the mild steel parts of this bender. I have used some 309 rod before on it and it works pretty nice and gives a better appearance than the ER70s2 stuff. What kinda rod would you use on this 2x2x1/4 wall welded seam tubing? I plan to fillet the crap out of it since this thing will experience some serious forces during the bends. The thicker walled tubing can really be difficult to bend. I am actually kinda surprised that you don't already have a bender since you posted those rollcage pics before. Hard to get a take on your shop since you are predominately a target manufacturer yet you have pics of chassis work on race cars or something. Peace

Pete

[thefu]

problem is everyone cuts costs, even using 303 stainless it costs too much and each flange can cost upwards of $100-150 vs $50, if it was my setup i would run 303 stainless for sure. but aside from the rust, it really doesnt matter which metal.

if you weld it correctly they will never crack. its all about low amps and short weld spurts (5-7 actual beads then torch off and let post gas flow) along with back purging the runners.

ill see if i can get a video made for you. there is alot of skill/technique in doing these manifolds in terms of weld and fitment....ie the runners have to be offset prior to welding because every straight section will shrink, sometimes as much as 1/4" so you have to prepare for that by off setting the runners.

typically we only use 316 rod or some guys will use 308 on the runners and 309 on the flange to runner.

i dont keep any er70s, i only keep 316 in the 10lb boxes. the price i pay is damn near nothing and it works for everything i ever do in my shop steel wise. but for 2x2x1/4 wall i would use whatever wire is in my mig welder heh. i used to be 100% pro tig but **** im in love with mig now...

target stuff is a new deal for me, just 1 year old. primarily did high end fab work for years before this on ferrari, porche, audi r8's, lambo's and some evo stuff. i try NOT to do any auto work but i have friends that just wont stop bringing me work, plus i get to make some cool stuff i could have never made before

having a cnc mill is awesome!

[thefu]

just came across this video. figured you would enjoy it

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i77gmcJSHv8&feature=related]Flügel I Machining - YouTube[/ame]

when i can afford it im getting the stuff to do this type of work holding/machining. the new mill has 4th pre-wired..i need to call and see if its too late to add the 5th axis wiring, i think im gonna be pretty pissed if i cant

[pete from TN]

I'm just the opposite, always had mig welders and now that I have a tig welder I cannot seem to bring myself to go back to mig for anything really. I just love the control you have with the tig. I know it can be slower but that is usually not a real concern for me on the stuff I do.

I have had opportunity to make some recumbent bicycle frames for a friends startup recumbent company. I know what you mean when you talk about shrinkage and warpage in thin walled tube. It really is an art form but I found that when the fitments were good I could lay down a decent bead. The problem I had was that the guy I was doing it for had four different shops doing the swaging, notching, and bending of the tube so when I finally got it and tried to put it into the fixture it was pretty difficult to ensure a good tight joint. I wound up beating some of the pieces into position and having to clamp and weld, clamp and weld until it looked like something. Still it was a great learning experience. After that typical welds on anything else seemed easy as pie. The stainless I really enjoy, it just seems so workable and I will do that kind of work whenever possible.

Never worked on any Ferrari's or exotics before but I cannot imagine why anyone would want to do anything else once they get the opportunity. I had a neighbor in florida who had several Ferrari's including a 365 GTB4 Daytona coupe. He actually let me drive the coupe around our neighborhood a couple times. He also had a Berlinetta Boxer which was my personal favorite. Beautiful car and sounds like nothing else. Too rich for my blood, I will be happy just to have my fiero running decent hehehe....

Pete

[pete from TN]

Better open your wallet, better yet, sell your house, your cars, maybe your wife too.... That extra axis adds LOTS of money to the equation not only in hardware but also software and just programming it is a whole other level of complexity. Sure looks cool and it sure IS cool but you better have some real paying customers to justify that kinda outlay. You can do similar stuff with a trunnion setup on a fourth axis and that is at least reasonable but that machine is UBER expensive. Shrink fit tooling and cutters alone for that kinda performance is very pricey. I suppose it is a goal tho, sure would be interesting. Nowadays there are a lot of mill/turn machines coming onto the market and all sorts of interesting new kinda machines. Check out a Hexapod CNC mill if you want to see something really interesting. Peace

Pete

[thefu]

stainless is my fav just above aluminum. a tip for your stainless welding, and aluminum... dont dip the rod straight into the puddle, instead feed it to the outside top edge of the puddle.

less chance of pushing the piece you are welding over with the rod and the bead is easier to control since stainless wants to walk all over the damn place. also use the smallest rod you can and the lowest amps you can and just feed in a ton of rod, less chance of over heating and you will ALWAYS get color in the weld if you do short spurts of welds.

man once you work on high end exotics...and you are young like me... you quickly start learning that you cant own those things you work on by simply working on them. ive driven my fair share of ferraris and audi r8's, trust me they are more fun to drive than to work on...that being said, i had to switch up the way i think and what i do for a living to ensure that one day i can drive one...that i own...

i have a goal for next year to do 300,000$ net. and from that i want to buy a ferrari 599. most likely wont happen..not that i wont make 300k in sales but ill most likely just invest it in more machines.

im on track for 210k net this year and ive put 90% of it back into the business. once steel comes ill upload a picture of the po its still pretty nerve wrecking thinking about my steel bill coming up.

[pete from TN]

I honestly have no desire to own a car like that. I got worried when I used to park my old 86 GT fiero at the mall, can't imagine having $100k or more into a car. Again I would be happy to have a comfortable lifestyle and my bills paid with some money in the bank for a rainy day and be able to do things I want to do. I really had a blast with my custom built Suzuki Samurai's. I seriously doubt I had more cash in any of them than I would buying a new quadrunner and they were tons of fun.

If I can get this machine working reliably here soon and start making some parts for sale I will be hopefully miles ahead here. Just found an interesting thread on PM over there. Fellow made up a pretty nice feed and speed calculator. It is free and seems pretty well thought out. Right now I am using the Gwizard from my pal BobW tho which is also pretty sweet. Will be nice to use the wizard on my VMC someday here soon hopefully. Here is a link...

FSWizard

Well enough bull****ting for one night man. Gotta hit the hay so I can get to K-town tomorrow for some gas and steel. Peace

Pete

[thefu]

ive been using the wizard on cnccookbook but really ive had better luck using my cam software and just adding the tools i use.

ive been saving the processes which sets the tool, speed/feed/etc for say drilling a certain hole size, reaming, contouring, roughing, facing etc. im learning how to be more effecient with gibbscam, for simple parts i can do them in under 4-5 minutes 100% program ready for the mill.

man...the day i own a ferrari ill make a road trip to visit my family and swing by so you can drive it, its breath taking how driveable those cars are but have instant power on tap. they are unlike any car you have ever driven