[hippz]

Hello,

I came up with the idea of machining a completely custom paintball gun receiver (two halves bolted together) to fit Tippmann 98 Custom internal parts. I have no experience in CAM/CAD or machining at all, so here's two ultra-noob questions for you:

1. Is it possible to find a shop that will create just two intricate pieces (as opposed to hundreds or thousands of them), and;
2. How much do you think the end price would be, considering how long you think it may take to design and machine it?

The best part about it is that I only want to add onto the design of the original receiver. The Tippmann Project Salvo's receiver houses 98 Custom internals, and has a spot where a plastic shroud is attached by only one bolt. This allows the shroud to move from side to side, and if I have iron sights on there, or a laser on the side, it makes those things useless. As well, with the way the shroud is mounted, and how short it is, it is very hard to add upgrades like a grenade launcher or a Q-Loader (an under-barrel hopper). All I want to do is create a once piece receiver / shroud half. So if it is possible to copy the receiver and just add onto the design, that should make things a whole lote easier, and hopefully cheaper.

Any of your experienced suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[txcncman]

Companies machining for profit generally charge by the hour. I have seen ranges lately for $25 per hour for someone working out of their garage up to $225 per hour for larger boring mill work. Larger companies usually have gotten good at reducing set up times and optimizing machining so you usually end up paying for a smaller amount of hours at a higher price per hour.

Usually the final cost of a product is determined more by material cost and set up time and less by machining time. When you amortize set up time out over 1 piece, it is very expensive as opposed to 100 pieces.

Let's take you paint ball gun receiver as an example. Most likely, you will want it machined on all sides for best cosmetic finish. It will probably require at least 2 set ups. One of those set ups will probably require a fixture to hold the part be produced. So, for a shop charging $50 per hour: the first set up takes 1 hour to cut the raw stock, locate and load needed tools into the machine, and place stock into the work holding and locate zero points. Then the actual machining takes 45 minutes. The cost of material is $11. Labor is at $87.50. So you are $98.50 deep into one half of a receiver and the second op on the first half still needs to be done. Probably the fixture is going to cost you another hour. So, now you are up to $148.50. Then 30 minutes for machining on this second op makes it $173.50 for the first half of your receiver. Now double that for the other side of the receiver to $347.00.

Sure, you can probably find someone to do it for less. But, you will sacrifice quality or lead time or both.

Oh, and the above is also dependent on that you get all of your design engineering right. If there are problems with your design, the cost will probably go up.

[hippz]

Thanks you for your input, txcncman. The machining aspect of it seems a lot cheaper than I thought it would be. Maybe it'd be more worth it to have three or four full receivers made and then sell the other three.

I guess the CAD part is gonna be the real costly bit here, then. I assume there's no such thing as super ultra sci-fi 3D scanners that can be used to copy the original receiver and import into CAD, or if there is that it's very unlikely that would be an option, so I guess it will have to be recreated from scratch. Last noob question: what do you think that would cost me?

I just want to do this personally, but if it's gonna cost an arm and a leg, I can always make multiple units and sell them privately. People pay top dollar for paintball stuff nowadays.

[txcncman]

When reverse engineering someone else's patented product, you run into a lot of legal liabilities. Not many people with moral standards will embark on such a journey. When reverse engineering, it is important to show a substantial change or improvement in a design. You can, but it is not advised here, to copy something for personal use. Indicating you want to sell copies would violate copyright and patent protections.

Costs of engineering/design services are similar to machining services. I have noted ranges from about $40 per hour to over $200 per hour. I would estimate reverse engineering an item like yours to take between 10 and 20 hours.

[mcphill]

Scanning and reverse engineering is possible. I could maybe help with that - can you send a photo of what you are looking at?

That said, it is NO WHERE near a push the button and get a CAD model kind of deal. Scanning will take multiple setups to get all areas of the parts. Reverse engineering can be relatively easy to very painful depending on how complex the parts are. Jobs I do range from $150 - $2000 depending on the complexity of the parts, and the accuracy needed in the final CAD model.

Also keep in mind that the original part is likely optimized for certain production reasons - minimizing material use in an injection mold, or simplifying the machining needed, or ... Your "replacement" part may have totally different needs, so you need to communicate your goals if you want this type of work done.

With respect to patents, personal use is fully legal. As stated, selling parts could be a patent infringement. However, it all depends on what the patent actually is (or if the product actually has one). Often parts are not protected in any way, other than the barrier to entry to copy them is too high that most people can't or won't do it.

[hippz]

txcncman: The surface details can be completely changed, and if needed, the magazine can be shifted forward. As well, the Project Salvo body construction is a copy of the HK417, so it can very easily be passed off as a copy of the such. I am fully willing to change as much as needed to avoid any legal complications, I do not advocate stealing somebody else's work.

mcphill: That's promising news! Here's some pics of the receiver halves.

Left External: imgur: the simple image sharer
Left Internal: imgur: the simple image sharer
Right External: imgur: the simple image sharer
Right Internal: imgur: the simple image sharer

I wasn't kidding when I said it was intricate.. :P
These are normally made by pouring into a cast, then using a lathe to finish the part where the bolt sits.
Now my idea is to add a barrel shroud, with four 20mm Picatinny rails on it. The top one will be one long rail from the butt of the receiver to the very tip of the shroud, the other three on the sides and bottom of just the shroud. The bottom would be slightly longer than the ones on the sides, continuing until it touches the magazine.

[hippz]

A quick mockup of what I want done, made with Pimp My Gun:

TPSidea.jpg

[uspl]

Posiblt slightly o/t but head over to Home for some ideas on custom paintball shells.

HTH

[txcncman]

Well, I am the type of person that would get some CAD software and a pair of calipers and start measuring and drawing. When I thought I had a workable design, I would send it out to shops for quotes.

[Runner4404spd]

why not just make the shroud metal if tipman already makes a metal receiver?