[Joe.B]

We're about to get our first MTM-type CNC machine. It's a double-turret, double spindle machine. Both turrets have live tooling. The top one can move in X, Z, Y, and B.


I wonder... which "type" of machinist converts over & adapts better to the complexities?

Have you found that:

1. MILL guys have more success on these types of machines

-- OR --

2. LATHE guys have more success on these types of machines

[fizzissist]

Having run a 3 and a 5 axis mill, and a couple of 3 axis chuckers, I don't really understand the question.

Any good "candidate" should be comfortable with either a lathe or a mill, and should not come to the party having no experience in both.

But bottom line is, with milling, the tool rotates. In turning, the material rotates. With multi-axis, everything rotates. Maybe just simplistic to me, but you're just makin' chips and trying to sell what's left over. That said, if your candidate is intimidated by one or the other, he ain't right for the job.

....One suggestion is that you don't screw around with who you put on this machine.... depending on the machine control capabilities and safety barrier handling...you need to be worried about stuff runnin' into stuff...ESPECIALLY with twin turrets and opposing spindles.
There's not a lot of room, and things move real quick.

[Joe.B]

...I don't really understand the question.

Any good "candidate" should be comfortable with either a lathe or a mill, and should not come to the party having no experience in both.

These are the only options we have. Every "machinist" here is either a mill guy, or a lathe guy. None of them have the ability to operate the opposite type of machine.

A couple of different people (from other places... that have experience with MTM's) have given conflicting opinions on who they think would be most successful... just wondering what the opinion is out here in the forums.

[fizzissist]

All things being equal, I'd go with a CNC turning guy...simply because I think CNC turning gives you a basic familiarity with the inherent caveats of that animal, so the step to the Y and B axis will less daunting than for a guy stepping in from a milling environ.

The principles of your new machine are already known to the lathe guy.

...Assuming here that your lathe guys are running CNC lathes now? If not, you've got some real issues!

[SantosPrecision]

We have a Okuma MacTurn 350, and our biggest problem has been finding a programmer to support the machine, and then there's the problem with the POST which seems to be never ending.

If any one out there's looking for a programming position and has MTM experience with GIbbsCam please submit your resume??

One thing i can say the machine is very productive and nice to see in motion!

[underthetire]

Tough question. I would say lathe guy, especially if you have one with live tool experience. I'm a mori guy, followed closely by okuma. Mori gives you esprit with the proper post and solid of the machine when you buy it, that IMO is a huge advantage. Also being a fanuc control behind the pretty mapps panel can be advantageous if you have fanuc guys now. The mapps also has conversational programming built in, not sure how much that helps on a machine like that. Mazak has always been popular as well, and have probably been doing it longer than the rest, but they are lighter duty for sure. I don't know what okuma or mazak offer in memory, but that's important. The mapps I believe comes with 500 mb std, with a 1 gb upgrade for not much money, total 1.5 gb. Some jobs especially in 5 axis will need a lot of memory. Also make sure you get networking, not sure on okuma or mazak if it's std or not, but trying to put a 30mb program in through rs232 would suck. Most have USB now, but the network is much easier. And above all else, and this is most important : make sure you have a strong tech center close by, with people that know how to run the machine, and how to fix it! Stay away from off or lesser known names for that kind of machine, if a part breaks, and something will, the last thing you need is a 500k paperweight while something is shipped in from who knows what country.

[hacdlux]

im going to say lathe guy,

i started out as a mill guy and had a way steeper learning curve on the turning portion

here is my other factor, it is stilll a lathe not a vmc, live tooling behaves way diferently you can throw alot of milling experience right out the window
i had to explain to the boss the difference between trying to mill somethin in my fadal with a spindle that has 7 bearings and weighs 150 lbs vs my live tool with 4 bearing at 15 lbs



is this a tilt turret or a tool changer machine?

are you doing parts that are heavy on mill or heavy turn?

i would almost say let the parts be your determining factor or even better get one of each of your guys trained then they can help each other through the learning curve

by the way the learning curve on these machine looks like a cinder block wall covered in thumb tacks. when you hit it it hurts

[fizzissist]

Yeah, a CNC lathe/chucker can be intimidating, never mind adding live tooling.

Ours was so intimidating to one guy in the shop that rather than learn how to use it...like I did... he took to pissin' in the coolant, and unplugging the hard-drive or monitor when nobody was in the shop. A regular grown up.

I'm going with hacdlux on the learning curve, but I'd add naked.

Not only is milling more delicate, but approaches have to be dealt with differently, add tool nose radius to the list of things to keep track of, and you've got a whole raft of parameters in the mix of things you can adjust for each different setup...and keep a log of....
(I'm referencing a Mazak here)

Take boring, for example.... single point boring means you're changing the retract amount to adjust of hole and bar dia...guess what happens if you've run a large dia job, then stick a little bar for a little hole in the position??
If you didn't change your retract parameter, you've got a bent bar at best.

Lotsa stuff to keep track of that you don't worry about on a mill. And there's a reason the safety glass is so much thicker.

[Joe.B]

Ours was so intimidating to one guy in the shop that rather than learn how to use it...like I did... he took to pissin' in the coolant, and unplugging the hard-drive or monitor when nobody was in the shop. A regular grown up.

Yes, this is VERY sad. I have been a part of implementing "new" stuff (like Lean) in a couple of places now. I have developed a saying: If they don't want it (understand or agree with it), then they will MAKE IT FAIL.

... I'm going with hacdlux on the learning curve, but I'd add naked....

... And there's a reason the safety glass is so much thicker....

Thank you! I almost fell out of my chair due to uncontrolled laughter:cheers:

[hacdlux]

ill tell you what

that glass is amazing(and expensive)


we were running overnight one day,
we had a rats nest rip a tool holder out and throw it at the door
it shattered the first layer and made a dent in the second

to top it all off the dealer was bringing by a prospective customer of his the same morning it happened

[fizzissist]

ill tell you what

that glass is amazing(and expensive)


we were running overnight one day,
we had a rats nest rip a tool holder out and throw it at the door
it shattered the first layer and made a dent in the second

to top it all off the dealer was bringing by a prospective customer of his the same morning it happened

Cutting off a chunk of 304SS, the 1/4 lb piece flipped back and hit a spinning jaw. My calculations show it hit the safety glass at about 35mph. I was off-axis anyway....but.....

Mazak safety window, $600
J.C. Penny undershorts, $4
No real injury, ..... Priceless

[thewmc3]

i spent 10 years on mills only. in less than a week i was converted to mtm 4 years later still like it better for production work. just miss some of the chalenge of the mills.

[runangolee]

I would put a man that is more comfortable with a lathe than he is with his wife on that machine, for the sake of the machine if nothing else.

[cncDecoder]

Depends on how you use your multi-tasker (lathe with milling).
If you make mostly turned parts with a few milling features then a lathe guy is going to get by easy.
If your like me that uses his 5-axis multi-tasking lathe as a milling machine mostly - making prismatic parts from round stock - then milling experience helps get the job done efficiently.
Either way its still a cnc with a few more capabilities, know one you know them all...