[takewhatyoulike]

I don't need to chamfer or deburr the part afterwards either. It really depends on what kind of parts/jobs each of us are making. I'm glad I have jobs I don't need to do all the extra operations that you do.

A Frederick Winslow Taylor devotee! Do you carry a stop watch with you at all times? You obviously don't use form taps because if you did you would know form taps leave a burr unless chamfered before or after. Who is the one sidetracked? Plus not all my drills are split-point some are 118* parabolic flute, non split point therefore I use a spot drill. Not very labor efficient, but that's what the Tormach CNC is for.

Don Clement

[jeffery926]

A Frederick Winslow Taylor devotee! Do you carry a stop watch with you at all times? You obviously don't use form taps because if you did you would know form taps leave a burr unless chamfered before or after. Who is the one sidetracked? Plus not all my drills are split-point son are 118* parabolic flute, non split point.

Don Clement

Also, if you don't chamfer the hole first when using a forming tap, it will raise a burr up above the surfaces. Formed threads are stronger then cut threads are.

This is my quote, you must not have read it.

I have used form taps and tapped thousands of holes with them, but I used OSG brand. Not everyone has a vibratory deburring machine that is running while the next batch of parts are in the CNC machine. You can't think outside of the box and be able to plan your jobs any better? Your not the one that started this thread asking for help, so what does it matter to you? I recommended a spiral flute OSG cutting tap, not a forming tap.

[takewhatyoulike]

You can't think outside of the box and be able to plan your jobs any better?

My Bad. I never think outside the box and am a poor job planner. Just not very Taylor labor efficient as my boss says. Oh wait I am the boss, the engineer, designer, inventor, patent holder, machinist, CNC operator, software programmer, tool changer, chip sweeper, and the owner of my own company. Nope, I never think outside the box.

Don Clement

[BAMCNC.COM]

A drill doctor can make split points.

[mike sr1]

I believe I am going to like those form taps! The practice holes did fine...

[jeffery926]

My Bad. I never think outside the box. I never think outside the box.

Did I hear an echo coming out of that box? I did not see any vibratory deburr machine operator in your list Don. Does the one that thinks outside of the box in your operation responsible for that one? That's right, the Tormach CNC is responsible for the extra deburring operations.

Not very labor efficient, but that's what the Tormach CNC is for.

Oh wait I am the boss, the engineer, designer, inventor, patent holder, machinist, CNC operator, software programmer, tool changer, chip sweeper, and the owner of my own company.

Don Clement

To come on here and boast about yourself like that, tells me, you are having a problem being in control over someone else in your own little world and all you can do about it is, try to be in control here in this thread. :bs: This type of behavior is not helping Mike in any way and it is getting this discussion off track.

Mike, forming taps are a great alternative and they do give you stronger threads because the tap work hardens the 6061 material at the thread. Just remember, forming taps do wear and break over time just like a regular cutting tap and it will give you a larger burr to deal with at the top and bottom of your aluminum part then before. You can use a spot or center drill operation first to eliminate the top burr, but there will still be a large one at the bottom to deal with. Keep count on how many holes you tap when the forming tap breaks, because it will eventually, to give you an idea when to change the second one out before it does. Flood coolant is best to use with the forming tap.

Don, you can take control now. I'm out of here!!

[takewhatyoulike]

. Flood coolant is best to use with the forming tap.

Mike,

My experience in tapping 10s of thousands of holes with a Balax forming tap in 6061-T6 on my Tormach is NOT to use flood coolant. I use Relton A9 when using a form tap in Aluminum 6061-T6. For me form taps used in 6061-T6 last much longer than cutting taps YMMV. Take what you like and leave the rest.

Don Clement

[mike sr1]

Don,
I will get some on order- relton a9. I experimented yesterday using Rapid Tap, it really works well on cutting taps, it didnt make much difference in the experiment, I have some graphite and oil, that stuff is really messy but is good high pressure lube, I used it on my swag dies. I just am not comfortable with machine tapping yet, it will just take some time.
Thanks
again

[takewhatyoulike]

Mike,

Another method that works well for me in machine threading on my Tormach for threading holes larger than 4-40 is to thread mill. IIR a there was a post about a hybrid threadmill that could drill and threadmill with the same tool.

Don Clement

[takewhatyoulike]

To come on here and boast about yourself

If I were boasting I would be boasting about my focuser (made by me almost entirely on my Tormach) that was used last month on the Palomar Hale 200” telescope at prime focus F/3.3.

Telescope Reviews: Clement Focuser on Hale 200 inch Telescope

Don Clement

No BS, there are a lot of tapped and thread milled holes on my focuser that is mostly 6061-T6 aluminum.

[tbaker2500]

Coooool.
Good work Don!

[BAMCNC.COM]

I agree, I know nothing about telescopes but it sure is pretty

[mike sr1]

Verrrry nice Don!

[MichaelHenry]

If I were boasting I would be boasting about my focuser (made by me almost entirely on my Tormach) that was used last month on the Palomar Hale 200” telescope at prime focus F/3.3.

Impressive work on the focuser.

It looks like you favored Phillips head fasteners on this assembly. How would you compare them to button head socket screws for utility in assembly/disassembly? I've started using that style of fastener lately and am wondering for what circumstances they are best suited.

Mike

[takewhatyoulike]

Mike,

My original prototype use button head socket screws, also used a cut up Stanley tape measure for the flexures. I just paid the 11.5 year maintenance fee to the USPTO. Some of the features in the present design are artifacts from the evolution from many generations of the focuser. As it happened I have many thousands of black oxide coated stainless steel button head 4-40 Philips head screws. I believe that in the present design socket head cap screws may fit. I am also looking into Torx as the Philips head tend to cam out even though I am using Wiha Tools, Hand Tools, Screwdriver Bits, High Performance Bits From Wiha diamond coated and carbide coated driver bits with a Dewalt cordless 1/2 drill.

BTW I also assemble every focuser so I have direct feedback on the quality of the blind 4-40 tapped holes. I know from experience in installing 10s of thousands of 4-40 Philips head screws what the threaded hole quality is really about. It's one thing to push the button and do CNC machine tapping, but when you also install 168 4-40 Philips head screws in each focuser, then threaded hole quality really means something. I found that Balax BH5 4-40 EDP#10725-000 form taps have worked best for me over the last 10 years used with Relton A9 tapping fluid. Also the Procunier 1E reversing tapping head has worked extremely well for me on my Tormach in tapping 4-40 blind holes. Tapping @ 1200RPM, down feed 30 IPM , no dwell, retract 60 IPM. I use a spot drill before drilling that also prevents a burr. Any burr for me is detrimental to the proper seating of the stainless steel flexures. I want the movement of my focuser to be dependent on internal atomic bending of the flexure solid and not sliding movement of the flexure on the surface. My focusers have atomically smooth movement because the flexures are fixed and do not slide about the 4-40 screws that hold them in place.
MIT professor Alexander Slocum states:"Flexural bearings (also called
flexure pivots), on the other hand, rely on the stretching of atomic bonds
during elastic motion to attain smooth motion. Since there are millions of
planes of atoms in a typical flexural bearing, an averaging effect is produced
that allows flexural bearings to achieve atomically smooth motion."


Don Clement

[tbaker2500]

I really shouldn't, but-

I use a spot drill before drilling that also prevents a burr. Any burr for me is detrimental to the proper seating of the stainless steel flexures. I want the movement of my focuser to be internal to flexure solid and not sliding movement of the flexure on the surface.

But Don, don't you know you can just tumble them and most of the burrs will come off??

Sorry, sorry... :-)

[takewhatyoulike]

I really shouldn't, but-



But Don, don't you know you can just tumble them and most of the burrs will come off??

Sorry, sorry... :-)

Yeah most of the burrs will come off.

I run all of my parts in a BurrKing 200SX vibratory deburring machine for at least an hour. I use medium size plastic cone media about 1/2" across and it doesn't remove all the burrs in some recessed places. I am trying for is a matt finish so when Type II black anodized satin finish is applied my focuser has as small a light reflection as possible. But you already knew that right?

Don Clement

And yes you really shouldn't, but-

"reelin' and a rockin' and rollin'
You know she said she didn't but I know she do" ~Chuck Berry

[BAMCNC.COM]

Do you do your own anodizing?

[takewhatyoulike]

Do you do your own anodizing?

No.

[megagear]

to TAP M5 x 0.8

OSG RECOMMENDED TAP GRADES ARE:
recommended drill: 4.2mm (.165) MAX ID-.1023
--------------------------------------------------------------------
RECOMENDED SURFACE FEED PER MIN TYPE OF TAP

HYPRO DC 240 6061 25-60 HYPRO-SEVEN

EXOTAP TRF 310 707 25-60 HYPRO AL 295

STANDARD TAPS M-BOSS 171 25-60 TRF TAP 110, 111


------------------------

SURFACE SPEED RECOMMENDED IS : 25-60 SURFACE SPEED PER MIN

25*3.82/.197(5mm)= 484, or at 60=1163

feed depends on the type of cut:
If rigid tapping with G84 OR SYNCHRONIZED with G95m29
then it is pitch which is .8mm=.03149 INCH PER REV

if floating tap used without synchronization use .03149*(RPM CHOSEN ABOVE)
generally recommendation is goint into part at 95% and drawing out at 100%.

So, for example:

1000 RPM SELECTION=IN HOLE=29.92 INCH PER REVOLUTION and out of hole 31.49 INCH PER REV.

most aluminums are ok with soluble coolant at 10% concentration ratio.

another option is to use form tap using a slightly larger drill #14 (.182) drill


-Le Po


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