I did manage to get the Win8 DWM off, but when I did and then ran BC V24 it would not generate the graphics for my part files. The working area of the screen stayed blank. The BC application functions all worked - just couldn't "see" anything related to my part file. In fact, the BobCAD1 file that always comes up when you first start BC also did not so up. But, I could use all of the BC functions and tools. And any BC pop up boxes also painted. Just not the part file. Weird. Anyway, important part of this whole issue is that anyone that is using BC V24 or older is going to have to keep, find, or still use a computer (at least a laptop computer) with Win7 to run their BC on.
I am looking on eBay at some Dell notebooks that have dedicated graphics that are pretty cheap and come without an OS. I still have my OEM copy of Win7 that I could load onto it. They're pretty inexpensive. So, I might give that a shot. Good to know tip about the OpenGL and CAD software......vs DirectX.
Thanks for the insight.
Hey Jrmach, I will post what my final solution is. It will, at this point, no doubt include going back to a machine running Win7. Just not sure if I'm going to do it on the laptop I just bought, or find a different machine. Just isn't cost effective for me right now to upgrade BC or buy an expensive laptop. I'll post what works. Thanks.
R/Todd
Hi BurrMan, I agree it's not BC. As you said a little farther down, V24 was written before Win8 arrived on scene. BC is not going to fix this, and I wouldn't expect them to.
They seemed to made it pretty clear in the email that I shouldn't bother them anymore with this. At least that's what I took away from the email ending with "Sorry for the inconvenience." I am happy that they at least looked into it for me, at least on a cursory level.
I see a tectonic shift coming in the future. There may be a business opportunity for someone to write an OS that will run Windows software but can be run in a Windows XP or Win 7 environment and not on a dummied down computer system that is trying to mimic a huge android or apple smartphone device. (Which is what I make of this stupid Metro thing.) If you just want to have a computer that is a computer and not a huge point and touch app downloader - what will your choices be??? (Is that what that Linux thing does??) Why does everything have to be dummied down to the lowest IQ level?? Not that I'm all that smart, but if all you can do is point and grunt....maybe you shouldn't be using a computer!!!! OK rant over. (BTW - did I mention that I don't like Win8?)
Yup. If you have BC V24 or older and prefer not to upgrade your version of BC, then you will have a few options:
1. Keep a computer running Win7 and run your copy of BC "as administrator" with Visual Themes OFF and Desktop Composition OFF.
(I would say WinXP - but in a few more months Microsoft is going to stop writing security patches for it - it will be only be useful stand-alone and offline.)
2. Use a new computer running Win8 but has a dedicated graphics card that can be set-up to run V24 or earlier.
(This hasn't be proven yet, but BurrMan seems to think that it can be/is possible with the correct drivers.)
(This will have to be a desktop with a good graphics card or a laptop WITHOUT integrated graphics.)
Since I don't think I'm smart enough to "hack" anything but wood, it seems to me there are (for the average dude) two ways to go here:
A. Run BC V24 or older versions on a computer using Win7 (with the proper settings);
or
B. Upgrade to BC V25 or higher and run it on whatever you want to (when set up properly).
There, that was easy.
It only took a 4 page thread to figure out!
OK, so here is a summary of this issue so far:
A. Win8 uses a thing call DWM (Desktop Windows Manager) that controls something called Desktop Composition.
B. Desktop Composition (and therefore DWM) has to be active and running in Win8 to support this Metro Theme thing.
C. Some part of the BC V24 software (and any older version of BC) that has to do with graphics does not work with Desktop Composition.
D. Win8 does not have the options to turn off Themes and Desktop Composition (These ARE available options in Win7).
E. So, if you try to run BC V24 or older versions on Win8 - it doesn't work well. It does run, but the graphics are glitchy and puts up a lot of trash at times (like when using the select tool).
What I have done to try to get V24 to run in Win8:
1. Updated graphics driver (and adjust setting in Vision Engine Control Center) - didn't help.
2. Loaded the Areo Lite (basic) Theme into Win8 and selected it - didn't help.
3. Figured out how to turn off DWM in Win8 and started BC V24 - Ran, but had other video issues
4. Updated the Laptop BOIS - didn't help.
What else I have learned:
1. I downloaded BC V26 (trial) and installed it on Win8 - It appears to run OK on my integrated graphics driver laptop.
2. Don't buy a laptop with an integrated graphics driver.
The simplest solution options:
A. Run BC V24 (or older versions) on a computer using Win7 with:
1. Run as Administrator;
2. Disable Visual Themes;
3. Turn Desktop Composition OFF.
or;
B. Upgrade to BC V25 or higher and run it on whatever you want (when set up properly).
Hope this thread is helpful to anyone who wants to keep BCC V24 or older and finds it necessary to get a new (or different) computer.
R/Todd
Thanks Todd,,what a bit of time you have on this,but most helpful.
Good summation. Running CAD/CAM on a mid-range laptop is a bit of an edge case, but I know others who are doing it, so this will likely help someone out. On their behalf, thanks for being a really good guinea pig. I agree that just putting Win7 on the machine is easily the most cost effective solution for you. It's actually pretty cool that BobCAD runs at all on these integrated graphics systems, given the minimum hardware specs.
Luke
"All I'm trying to find out is the fellow's name on first base" -- Lou Costello
Hope you get something going TAP...............
The only caveat to the summary is to this part here:
"On some lower end integrated graphics systems".........C. Some part of the BC V24 software (and any older version of BC) that has to do with graphics does not work with Desktop Composition.
HOPEFULLY though, things will change with windows direction. They made some significant changes with 8.1 from 8, trying to address this. I think they will recognize it's not time to move everything over to a phone/pad/touch yet......
Anyway........
Another option would be to run a 'Virtual Machine' with Windows 7 in it on a Win8 machine and then run BC in that. Not a great option since performance is lost with the VM, and graphics suffers but its there...
After years of banging my head against the Microsoft wall of "we know what's best for you" (AFAIK, _all_ of the major PC companies told Microsoft that getting rid of the Start button and requiring boot into the new Metro UI was a stupid idea a year before Win8 came out), I'm not optimistic they'll fix it, but if they keep losing market share and keep getting complaints, maybe they will... So get complaining everyboody