[nateman_doo]

Welcome to 2014!
Excellent read! I just read (most) of the 22 pages here. I will make 3 with 1/2" ball bearings, and use a Delrin Body. The bearings and Delrin will be from McMaster.

Here is my motor that is giving me problems: (X axis)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuUP33nVU0E
The whole unit goes bonkers around 10ipm. I personally think its heat related damage, so I ordered a new motor anyway. I will still go through and make 3 of these

The bearings:
9528K24 Bearing-Quality E52100 Alloy Steel, Hardened Ball, 1/2" Diameter, packs of 50 $7.50

The Delrin:
8576K52 Black Delrin ® Acetal Resin Rod, 2-3/4" Diameter, 1 ft. Length $29.02

So for $36.52, I can do all 3 motors. Just debating on whether to post the pictures here, or in my machine thread:
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/vertic...ach_build.html

[davidmb]

Hi Nateman,

You can check if it is a resonance problem by simply adding a flywheel/mass to the stepper motor, if it is a resonance issue, then the ipm at which it occurs will change if you add mass. Have you run any calculations based on your drive train, including the mass and moment of inertia of all your components, I seem to remember that there was an excel spreadsheet that mad a fairly good approximation as to where resonance would occur and what the best driving parameters are likely to be considering all components, drop me a pm, to remind me, and I'll take a look to see if I still have a copy.

[the.sniper]

After looking at the vid.... this is just my opinion.
Seems to me the motor is stalling because a: its not tuned correctly, b: a power issue or C: you indicated it was subject to some excessive heat? possibly it is damaged.
but in my limited hand full of tests. none of my steppers ever stalled free wheeling once tuned and properly powered.

Though Dampeners wont hurt. I would explore DavidMB suggestion. put on a make shift damper from even a skateboard wheel(use your imagination). and also secure the motor it self. as loose as it is in the vid only encourages more vibration.

test test test... and as always "no offense intended"

[Vogavt]

If you have a Smartphone, download one off the vibration apps that measures in X, Y & Z. It works off the built-in accelerometer in the phone. I'm looking into building a permanent mount where I can temporarily lay my phone on it and see which axis is the culprit when vibrations are excessive during cuts.

One app even let's you save the data for more extensive data mining in spreadsheet format once imported to your PC.


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[the.sniper]

can you suggest such an app for the iphone?

[Vogavt]

I have a Droid so I can't help you there but I'd think Google Play would show either.

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[Vogavt]

Look for "seismic". There's one called Seismometer for 99 cents that exports saved data. Check out some YouTube videos on it. Looks to fit the bill.

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[nateman_doo]

Hi Nateman,

You can check if it is a resonance problem by simply adding a flywheel/mass to the stepper motor, if it is a resonance issue, then the ipm at which it occurs will change if you add mass. Have you run any calculations based on your drive train, including the mass and moment of inertia of all your components, I seem to remember that there was an excel spreadsheet that mad a fairly good approximation as to where resonance would occur and what the best driving parameters are likely to be considering all components, drop me a pm, to remind me, and I'll take a look to see if I still have a copy.

Nope, I have not done an ounce of caluculations.

Sniper: Its not stalling, It just rattles like crazy at 10ipm, even in my hands. I will try putting a mass on the end of it, but does it really need a mass when its just spinning with no load attached?

Vogavt: The other 2 axis don't really chatter, just the X axis. Bit that does sound pretty neat if I can figure out how to implement it.

[Vogavt]

My understanding is large companies continuously monitor their equipment and can tell by the vibration frequency where issues are occurring or detect issues in advance of some catastrophic event. I'm just a hobbiest at this point but I like this sort of info.

When gibs start getting loose on my X2 and therefore slack is present, vibration starts to show up. That's the theory anyway.

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[nateman_doo]

thats one thing i HATED about my X2. Then I stepped up to linear rails. I haven't looked back since.

[Vogavt]

Stupid question maybe but are you saying you modded your X2 and fitted rails on it? Now that's an idea!

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[ger21]

..................... Its not stalling, It just rattles like crazy at 10ipm, even in my hands. I will try putting a mass on the end of it, but does it really need a mass when its just spinning with no load attached?

I've always read that a motor not mounted to anything is the worst case scenario for resonance.

[nateman_doo]

Stupid question maybe but are you saying you modded your X2 and fitted rails on it? Now that's an idea!

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Nope. Whole build from scratch. Check out the link I posted. Took me 2 years to make it.

So, I make a small diameter mass and put it on the motor. It didn't help at the 10ipm, but I felt that mass VIBRATING like crazy. If you touch it, its like your fingertips are falling asleep. Even with a SOLID mount. New motors should be arriving either Friday, or Saturday.

I know the raw material for the rattlers will arrive tomorrow.

[Bartos]

natemat_doo

I'm not sure which dumper are you willing to build but take a look at this - Patent US5295411 - Torsional vibration absorber system - Google Patentler it is the damper that I spoke about couple posts ago.
And here is a simple spreadsheet in excel to make calculations. I recommend using solver plugin in excel to get proper numbers.
Attachment 218004

[the.sniper]

Crazy question. have you swapped the motor for another axis. and are the results the same for each the stepper as well as the Axis output?

test...test... test...
-S

BTW for those iPhone users I just found a free app "VR Mobile" easy to use. lots of other features too.
I would have ever even thought about an app. thanks all for waking me up...

@Vger... Dude your some crazy mad scientist. most of the time you lose me at the first word!
I love smart people! Respect to you.

[Vogavt]

I looked back through this thread for a Vger but didn't see one so in the context I assume you're talking to me.

"Love smart people" as do I. My kids say ( with affection) "Dad, why are you such a Free e e a k?!!!

They'd the ones that truly inspire me to think think think. If they only knew.

Not being arrogant at all or vain. Just given humor and credit to my continued striving to be successful.

Have you looked at the plugins for Mach3 for the Droid and iPhone that controls your machine?

I've always wanted an MPG for it. Now for about $8 for the Bluetooth adapter I can have one!

As I've said before there are a great too many folks in this world smarter than any one of us. That's what makes these forums special. I just try to help where I can.

Cheers!


Not intending to derail the thread.

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[the.sniper]

Vogavt,

I looked back through this thread for a Vger but didn't see one

Sorry to disappoint but I did mean to say 'Vger" see pages 20, 21 or for instance... he must be some engineer.
funny Im always drawn to that which I do not understand. (And, BTW no offense intended! Im sure your a pretty smart guy. Kids are usually never wrong!)

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/steppe...tml#post935048

Have you looked at the plugins for Mach3 for the Droid and iPhone that controls your machine?

Thx for the plugins suggs. wow 9.99? I actually do already have one (an ebay model for 99.99 works great too)
though the app is so inexpensive its worth a try.

As I've said before there are a great too many folks in this world smarter than any one of us. That's what makes these forums special. I just try to help where I can.

Very well said.

-S

[the.sniper]

Nope. Whole build from scratch. Check out the link I posted. Took me 2 years to make it.

to make it a little more impressive you could have said.
"Took me 2 Years and a house to make it. " (after looking at the mentioned thread.)
despite that it is quite impressive on its own.

BTW: any change on the stepper vibration?
-S

[nateman_doo]

I haven't been able to make it yet. I am working on the code for it still. I was busy this weekend. Trust me, this week it will be made. I already am in possession of the Delrin rod, and the 0.5" ball bearings. I don't see it taking very long to make with a 1/4" end mill hogging out some delrin, with perhaps a few turns on a lathe, but not necessary.

Trust me, you will see the pictures.

[nateman_doo]

The chunk of delrin initially turned down:
http://i590.photobucket.com/albums/s...ps48a8dbrx.jpg
And the partially finished product:
http://i590.photobucket.com/albums/s...psmdwmiu8x.jpg
http://i590.photobucket.com/albums/s...psbvsqg3dz.jpg