[Joe S.]

Turn off the tool crib, or allow users to do it and I'm Happy .

[nursum]

I'am happy, when I can import a tool-list (Excel ro ASCII) which I can measure separately on my toolmeasurement system. No one needs a predefined tool numbering! If you forget switching off ==> expensive crash!

Ingo (Germany)

[Idiod]

I have to agree with Jr on this issue that Bobcad is playing to the hobbyist marketshare. I spoke to them before I upgraded to V27 about some of the changes that have been made since V20 and was told the reason that the software had less options that the user could define was that a lot of inexperienced users were doing things that they really didn't understand and would end up thinking that there were flaws in the software instead of realizing the problems were self inflicted. That being said I do not like the automatic tool numbering at all. If they want to offer that as an option at least make it default off. In V20 you had options of changing certain defaults. I understand why they do it, just don't agree with it. Inexperieced or not, If I select a tool as Tool 5 the software should never change that number for any reason and if it does it should alert the user. Just this persons .02

[MikeC8]

Sorry guys, I can`t agree with you all on this, I never get this issue because I NEVER make changes to tools in the feature, I always get a new tool from the Crib and if not there then from the Library and if not there then I create one, if you change your work flow to always create a Tool Crib for the job at the BEGINNING of the procedure then you won`t have any problems, just have the automatic tool numbering turned off, maybe it should be turned off by default instead of on by default then you would be on the tool numbers as set in your tool library and then you may well have to make changes if you have an ATC on the machine.

Regarding the tool being changed when you make a depth change to a feature that will be because the original tool didn`t have enough flute length to be able to cut to the new depth, pretty logical really, if you want to go deeper then the first thing you should be checking is if the tool will do the job required.

Please don`t blame the software for the users "dodgy" workflow

Keep a good sense of humour as well, absolutely essential

Regards
Rob
:rainfro: :rainfro: :rainfro:

I have to disagree with you :rainfro:

Whats wrong with pointing out the way bobcad handles something, suggesting a change for the better? If the majority are using the wrong workflow, shouldn't there be a change? I cannot see anyone ever using automatic tool numbering. Setup your tool library and keep things standard.

On our CNC router, I have numbered every tool I use on the router in the tool library as tool 0. This helps keeps them defined as tools for the router, rather then the mill. And since our router only has 5 tool holders, I manually assign them for each job.

But when it comes to the mill, every tool I select is stored in the tool library, a spreed sheet, and loaded into the machine with that given number. That way, if we need to run a job again in a year, the operator doesn't have to change anything.



The one thing that drove me nuts, until I figured it out was updating my tool library in V27. I make changes at work all the time in V4, and any changes I make stick. But in V27, if I had a part file open, it would not save any changes that I made. I had to just start bobcad, and make my changes to the default new file. Then save that file, and close out of bobcad. I will have to try changing a few more options in the default file, and see if I can get auto tool numbering to turn off by default.

[Beansdiesel]

Yay, posts are now showing up...

MikeC8, Thats a good idea I will try for now is just make every tool in the library 0, at least then if it picks one and I dont catch it the machine wont crash. If it will stay that way, I have the same issues with putting stuff in the crib and it not being there next time. Pretty much why i have never bothered to set up tools in the crib much. I know if I do it the in the right way it will stay but i dont know what that right way is and I dont care enough to take the time to figure it out.

[nursum]

Sorry guys, I can`t agree with you all on this, I never get this issue because I NEVER make changes to tools in the feature, I always get a new tool from the Crib and if not there then from the Library and if not there then I create one, if you change your work flow to always create a Tool Crib for the job at the BEGINNING of the procedure then you won`t have any problems, just have the automatic tool numbering turned off, maybe it should be turned off by default instead of on by default then you would be on the tool numbers as set in your tool library and then you may well have to make changes if you have an ATC on the machine.

Regarding the tool being changed when you make a depth change to a feature that will be because the original tool didn`t have enough flute length to be able to cut to the new depth, pretty logical really, if you want to go deeper then the first thing you should be checking is if the tool will do the job required.

Please don`t blame the software for the users "dodgy" workflow

Keep a good sense of humour as well, absolutely essential

Regards
Rob
:rainfro: :rainfro: :rainfro:

That works with simple parts! But when you work on complex electrodes where you have to "adjust" the gap for EDM die sinking, you have to edit the feature! Especially when you mill 5-axes simultaneous. That 13 000$ program ist nothing for hobby...! Nobody who work in that professional aerea needs an automatism with tools, because it generates expensive crashes...

Ingo

[Beansdiesel]

Quote Originally Posted by The Engine Guy View Post
Sorry guys, I can`t agree with you all on this, I never get this issue because I NEVER make changes to tools in the feature, I always get a new tool from the Crib and if not there then from the Library and if not there then I create one, if you change your work flow to always create a Tool Crib for the job at the BEGINNING of the procedure then you won`t have any problems, just have the automatic tool numbering turned off, maybe it should be turned off by default instead of on by default then you would be on the tool numbers as set in your tool library and then you may well have to make changes if you have an ATC on the machine.

Regarding the tool being changed when you make a depth change to a feature that will be because the original tool didn`t have enough flute length to be able to cut to the new depth, pretty logical really, if you want to go deeper then the first thing you should be checking is if the tool will do the job required.

Please don`t blame the software for the users "dodgy" workflow

Keep a good sense of humour as well, absolutely essential

Regards
Rob




I could never see myself having a perfect set of tools in the crib that I have to never make changes to. Certain operations like threading with a thread mill slight tool diameter changes are the best way to change the thread depth. Maybe you have an end mill that you use all the time with a 2" stick out but you have a pocket thats 2.1 deep so you have to pull it out of the holder just a hair to get the clearance. In my work flow it is much more time consuming to go to the crib and pick out a tool then to just input the diameter into the wizard and go. I will manually input my feeds and speeds anyway so I dont really care if it is labeled as a HSS or Carbide or whatever. I then want that tool number for that tool in that Feature to stay the same unless I input a different number myself.

And for the changing of the tool number when adjusting Feature depth, the software should not think it is smarter then the person inputting the information. Let me crash the tool that's in there if that's what I want to do, not that I would want to, just saying dont change things for me.

[nursum]

I have the same opinion! I started a similar thread a couple of years ago: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/bobcad...ml#post1065334 and then the "tool crip" occured....

[MikeC8]

For those long reach ops, I finally purchased a handful of endmills from SGS that have short flutes, but a reduced neck for long reach applications. I have a 1/4" ball endmill with a .375" flute length, and a 2.125" reach. You can even get 1/2" endmills with a reach of up to 3.375". Now that I have the proper tools, I no longer find my self having to force a tool to rub.

If you do not mind rubbing, then alter your tools in the library. Set your flute length to 2.2" and the stickout to 2.3", keep your stickout and flute length close. Then bobcad will only change tools if you are going to crash your tool holder into your stock. You can also preset longer offset tools in bobcad, to a tool number that is not loaded in the machine. Then bobcad will pick from a tool that is not loaded. But even with all of that, you will still want to double check the setup sheet every time just to make sure you did not miss something.

[Beansdiesel]

Al, make sure the software developers get this info please! I would say this has to be right at the top if not the #1 thing that we would like changed in BCC!

I know it has to be my #1 frustration as I have to re-post operations constantly and lose a ton of time not to mention tools and work to this one simple thing. It is not helpful in any way (to me anyway), it costs time, (time is money), it costs tools and parts, and is if nothing else flat out dangerous.

[aarggh]

I am not trying to bash, just wishing they would fix this so I could stop bashing tools into stuff or bashing my head on my desk in frustration. Also hoping in a way that I could have overlooked a setting somewhere that someone else has figured out that would fix this, but I dont think there is a current fix for it. I appreciate Al's quick response and trying to help but I dont think what he had in mind is the fix for the issue of it changing the tool numbers.

Sorry but I wasn't inferring you were bashing at all beans, I can certainly understand how frustrating it can be to not be aware of, or be impacted by a setting that can make life difficult, so no, I wasn't directing anything at anyone other than Al.

I just made a general comment on what I thought was a rarity nowadays, an informed person helping out others in a professional, courteous, and prompt manner, even though, yes, he does work for BobCAD!

I always believe it's important to give credit where credits due, if the wife and I are out out shopping, and we get exceptional service, we make sure we tell the store manager, sadly that seems to be an extremely rare occurrence for both parties. Most people are too quick to spend ages complaining, but not enough give praise where it's due. It's all about the Karma!

cheers, Ian

[BurrMan]

It is true this has been discussed before. It's funny though. I read this as misuse and a misunderstanding. There is the possibility of a feature request though, too.

So, we can set our tool crib up, for those that have a controller that keeps track of the tools and numbers and operate accordingly. BobCad also has a system tools system that allows us to "change settings on the fly, and create the tool if one is needed to support the new parameters. It seems like the request is to "allow me to change something about the current tool, but don't change the tool I have already set.... THAT request is the disaster.....

If you want to precisely set a tool, the system knows this and performs accordingly. If you want to then "tweak something on the fly", this is "CHOOSING A NEW TOOL"....Asking the system to make a human intelligent decision as to your intention, and react how YOU think it should to that change and decision, if fairly far fetched...

If the tool number accounting is so important to your machine and workflow, setup a toolcrib. The idea that "adding a new tool to accommodate some tweak you want" is so much work that you cant do that is kindof odd to me.... that is the workflow of "system tools".... And there is a simple command of verify tool assignment that can be used before you go to the machine that is meant to be used for that purpose.....

I suppose BobCad could look at making a 3rd tool handling capability... Something like "A dynamic tool crib", which you could specify a small "set of tools" that never change, but act as the system tools act... This would allow the people that use tool cribs and defined tools and there holders and positions, to avoid the cluster that's being requested here.... It would also save the people who use system tools from having to do a bunch of extra work setting up "manual tools"...

[jrmach]

Hey ,,it has been discussed a lot,,,,but never has anyone explained the behavior of how BoB screws up when using tools on the fly.I challenge anyone to prove me wrong.I understand why,,I think,,I can live with it,,,but after thousands of times now experiencing it,,,just call me RoxAnne,,,excuse me,,I have to put my high heels and make-up on



BTW a tool crib is absolutely worthless and stupid for some of us...Real world you partner up with something like HSM Adviser,,but even then,,real world is different..

Excuse me,,I forgot my eye shadow


no offense Burr,there are so many variables involved in each and every job,,plus the machine,the cutter,the,coating of the EM,,,it would most likely be impossible for everybody to be happy.That said,,the only real solution is to beware,,be very careful,,,,or have a button doo-dad that bypasses the fancy module works simulator and only spits out code which you prove with Preditor or good faith...Not once in thousands of times has V23 Manual tools screwed the pooch...Simple,,,,Eye Candy Simulation is the root of it all,,,,Crap,,where is my Lip Gloss

[jrmach]

Oh Crap,,,I run my stockings again

[Rotax91]

Call me amateur(in which I am) but for many of the parts I've run thus far, I've often 'cut air' on the first run. At least then I know it's calling the right tooling for the actual run. Better than crashing a $120k Haas though by making a stupid self mistake.

[BurrMan]

Hey ,,it has been discussed a lot,,,,but never has anyone explained the behavior of how BoB screws up when using tools on the fly.I challenge anyone to prove me wrong.I understand why,,I think,,I can live with it,,,but after thousands of times now experiencing it,,,just call me RoxAnne,,,excuse me,,I have to put my high heels and make-up on

I can prove it. If you understand why, then you may be stuck in another area. BobCad doesn't screw up the tools. As soon as you "Go back and tweak" something about the tooling, you have made a new tool. It is not the same tool. Pretty simple. Although, it seems those in this post think it should just remain the same tool.

BTW a tool crib is absolutely worthless and stupid for some of us...Real world you partner up with something like HSM Adviser,,but even then,,real world is different..

Well, for YOU! But a tool crib is needed for those people that have machines that use tool cribs (atc's?) The entire purpose of that is you preload tools in and they are set to their parameters. The controller then performs actions like tool compensations and wears etc...... It you need to "Tweak" a tool and have "longer flutelength", you need to add another tool with longer flutelength. "Or", you completely reconfigure the tool in the atc (crib) and discard the other one.....Either way, you don't just make a setting in BobCad and then go to town. There is work involved...

no offense Burr,there are so many variables involved in each and every job,,plus the machine,the cutter,the,coating of the EM,,,it would most likely be impossible for everybody to be happy.That said,,the only real solution is to beware,,be very careful,,,,or have a button doo-dad that bypasses the fancy module works simulator and only spits out code which you prove with Preditor or good faith...Not once in thousands of times has V23 Manual tools screwed the pooch...Simple,,,,Eye Candy Simulation is the root of it all,,,,Crap,,where is my Lip Gloss

Well, this goes to my previous post. You seem to want "tool crib operation" with "tweak on the fly" capabilities of system tools, but look for toolcrib results...

You seem to be knocking the system keeping track of either "you changing the tool" (which for the system tools, gives you a new tool number) or "Having to manually make a crib and setting the tools you will use up "BEFOREHAND". If you need a tool with a longer flute, you have to manually create it, add it to the crib, then choose it......

For me, it seems like a misguided expectation as to how to use manual or system tools...

[jrmach]

Call me amateur(in which I am) but for many of the parts I've run thus far, I've often 'cut air' on the first run. At least then I know it's calling the right tooling for the actual run. Better than crashing a $120k Haas though by making a stupid self mistake.

You gt it pal amateur

[jrmach]

I can prove it. If you understand why, then you may be stuck in another area. BobCad doesn't screw up the tools. As soon as you "Go back and tweak" something about the tooling, you have made a new tool. It is not the same tool. Pretty simple. Although, it seems those in this post think it should just remain the same tool.



Well, for YOU! But a tool crib is needed for those people that have machines that use tool cribs (atc's?) The entire purpose of that is you preload tools in and they are set to their parameters. The controller then performs actions like tool compensations and wears etc...... It you need to "Tweak" a tool and have "longer flutelength", you need to add another tool with longer flutelength. "Or", you completely reconfigure the tool in the atc (crib) and discard the other one.....Either way, you don't just make a setting in BobCad and then go to town. There is work involved

Where in the hell are my panties



Well, this goes to my previous post. You seem to want "tool crib operation" with "tweak on the fly" capabilities of system tools, but look for toolcrib results...

You seem to be knocking the system keeping track of either "you changing the tool" (which for the system tools, gives you a new tool number) or "Having to manually make a crib and setting the tools you will use up "BEFOREHAND". If you need a tool with a longer flute, you have to manually create it, add it to the crib, then choose it......

For me, it seems like a misguided expectation as to how to use manual or system tools...

No,No,No I want exactly what V23 offered,,,flawless,,,,Tool Crib is crap,so are speeds aND FEEDS,,,,I understand why,,,but as a result it is broken.
I went to Sorin's class a few years ago,,,boom,,sME CRAP,,,,bottom line tools on the fly do fail and often..It is not using the software wrong,,,becaus many,many BoB's videos show them doing it.It is absolutetly an advertised feature that should work,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I invite you to my world any time you are in these parts and I will show you,,,I owe you at least a keg.............

[Rotax91]

You gt it pal amateur

But I will kick the sh*t out of anyone on here at what I really do for a living

[BurrMan]

bottom line tools on the fly do fail and often..It is not using the software wrong,,,becaus many,many BoB's videos show them doing it.It is absolutetly an advertised feature that should work,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,.............

I suppose I could be missing something. But I don't see it. It seems that you want to change something about a tool and have it remain listed and selected as the same tool that it was before.... But it's not the same tool as it was before. Hence the tool has changed. It's just how system tools work.

Even when you set manual tools. If the tool doesn't exist in the library, the system will create the tool to set the new parameters on. The only way around that is to create the tools you want beforehand and use those. If you need to change some parameter of the tool, you need to create a new tool with the new parameters.

I don't see that as broken.