[petethered]

Is there enough wire length to run it all the way back to the control panel? Doesn't look like it.

Probably once I unwind the bundle

Kudos for being such a good sport about your machine!

This is a very public forum, so I try my hardest to keep my emotions and opinions out of the posts If we are being honest, I just want my machine running again.

[precision-hone]

Probably once I unwind the bundle This is a very public forum, so I try my hardest to keep my emotions and opinions out of the posts If we are being honest, I just want my machine running again.

I found this video on another user group, and the fellow was pretty reserved in his comments, but you could see he was a bit frustrated as well. Probably if each side maintains composure, all the problems can be resolved.

[mattz0r]

Technically you don't have to solder the tips of the wires (or solder on pins), at least for testing. Just snip off the messy wire on the end, strip off ~1/8" of insulation, then twist that exposed wire so it will easily poke into the hole of the stepper driver connector. On the stepper driver inside the cabinet, pull out the plug that the old stepper is connected to, and you can then replace the old stepper wires with the new ones. Just untighten the screw, pullout the old wire, put in the new wire, and screw it tight again. Repeat for all wires. Then just plug the connector back into the stepper driver.

Good luck with your debugging! I hope I don't run into problems with my 440 as I start to use it more.

[petethered]

I found this video on another user group, and the fellow was pretty reserved in his comments, but you could see he was a bit frustrated as well. Probably if each side maintains composure, all the problems can be resolved.

That's my feeling as well.

It's a little difficult because I'm naturally snarky and have a tendency to be sarcastic ( thanks east coast upbringing! ) so I try to tamp it down, but it leaks through every once in a while

[pickled]

Oh man I feel for you on your 440's issues and I hope that Tormach gets you set up soon! If it makes you feel any better my 770's Z axis spindle is stuck a 1/4" deep in a block of aluminum right now. After many years of solid service me thinks that the faithful beast has smoked it's Z-axis stepper motor. I'm going to Re-ohm everything out tonight to confirm (via table 4.3 of the manual) the cursory readings I took last night. From a "silver linings" perspective it failed early in the program and the spindle is nearly touching the table so I won't have to mess around with jogging down to place the wood block before I disconnect the coupler LOL.

I tell you though petethered you should get at the soldering game even if this can work out for you without having to do it! I tell you that electrical hacking is such a rewarding hobby for me personally. It really is simple to pick up and once you start building competence with the basic stuff you will find yourself wanting to tear apart any device that you would normally just chuck because it "died" because some magic smoke was released. I mean, I will admit, that I have a "problem" now because I pull surface mount stuff out, scab capacitors, resistors, any type of coil (etc.). I've went as far as making my own toaster and coffee roaster for the shop over the years because I got pissed at the lack of reliability.

[MichaelHenry]

Re-running the wires is pretty straightforward if the 440 is like my 1100, which is a Series 1 that has been upgraded to Series 3. That required all three steppers to be replaced so I got to re-run wires 3 times. I'm pretty sure that mine had the crimps on the end of each wire and may even have had the green connector as well. It's not that hard to remove the green connector from the driver, though.

[TurboStep]

As already mentioned I would expect the wires to be simply clamped in the green connectors. If my 1100 is anything to go by Tormach appear to be well aware that soldering stranded wires is BAD practice. I would strongly advise against it.
Step

[MichaelHenry]

I looked at the lathe and it only has motor connections in the panel. That would be a pain to swap a motor on. It does run in waterproof flexible conduit all the way. There is a junction box in the lathe right behind the spindle. The 440 is a pretty small machine. There may be enough wire there. Break out the fish tape.

I disassembled my Tormach lathe down to basic components so it could be moved down the stairs to our basement and that involved removing both steppers and limit switches and their associated wiring. It really wasn't a big deal and the worst part was running some of the flexible conduit through a hole into the bed of the lathe. If you need to swap a stepper, just tie a long cord to the driver end of the wire bundle so that you can use that to pull the wires from the new stepper back through the conduit.

[LeeWay]

Excellent fore thought there.

[tmarks11]

Re-running the wires is pretty straightforward if the 440 is like my 1100, which is a Series 1 that has been upgraded to Series 3. That required all three steppers to be replaced so I got to re-run wires 3 times. I'm pretty sure that mine had the crimps on the end of each wire and may even have had the green connector as well. It's not that hard to remove the green connector from the driver, though.

That "green connector" is a terminal strip, with the wires held down by clamping screws.

[MichaelHenry]

That "green connector" is a terminal strip, with the wires held down by clamping screws.

Thanks - sometimes I just can't think of the proper name for components like that.

[CountrySmith]

As already mentioned I would expect the wires to be simply clamped in the green connectors. If my 1100 is anything to go by Tormach appear to be well aware that soldering stranded wires is BAD practice. I would strongly advise against it.
Step

Tormach uses ferrules to contain the stranded wire inserted into the connector strips. They are available from DigiKey Terminal Blocks - Accessories - Wire Ferrules | Connectors, Interconnects | DigiKey
They keep the wires from splaying out when the connector screw is tightened and provide additional support for the wire.

R J

[TurboStep]

Tormach uses ferrules to contain the stranded wire inserted into the connector strips. They are available from DigiKey Terminal Blocks - Accessories - Wire Ferrules | Connectors, Interconnects | DigiKey
They keep the wires from splaying out when the connector screw is tightened and provide additional support for the wire.

R J

While I almost always use ferrules on stranded wires as a matter of principal, the connector blocks supplied with my 1100 drives are designed for use with both solid and stranded wires, so ferrules aren't necessary. i presume the 440 connectors are of a similar type. In fact, I must have been in a hurry with my series 3 upgrade because I didn't use any - the wires also came un-terminated. However, if I were doing it again I would use them, but I'm known for going over the top!
Just avoid solder on stranded wires.
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Edit: If you want to benefit from ferrules they must be crimped correctly, not just popped over the wires before clamping in the connector!

[petethered]

Own a 440 and are curious what's under that cover that covers the column? Don't own one but are curious none the less?

I've got you (un)covered!

Attachment 333848

Attachment 333850

Attachment 333852

[GLCarlson]

Just avoid solder on stranded wires.
Step

OK. I've been "reading the mail". And I agree, using a crimped ferrule s a good, perhaps best, practice. BUT. I've been tinning stranded wire for a half-a-century,dammit, and I've had no problems. Why not just tin the wire and be done with it? Can anyone cite data that says use a ferrule?

[CountrySmith]

OK. I've been "reading the mail". And I agree, using a crimped ferrule s a good, perhaps best, practice. BUT. I've been tinning stranded wire for a half-a-century,dammit, and I've had no problems. Why not just tin the wire and be done with it? Can anyone cite data that says use a ferrule?

+1 on solder.

I cut my teeth in electronics making soldered point to point connections. When I was experiencing connection failures of outside wiring due to corrosion, it became my practice to solder all automotive and marine connections. I have experienced few failures of soldered connections in the past fifty plus years and literally tens of thousands of connections.

It is possible to create a stress point in a soldered connection that will cause a break if the wire is flexed often. It is also possible to have a wire pull out of an improperly crimped connection. Aside from connecting a speaker, I always tin stranded wire going to a screw or clamp connector. When I made some mods to my 770, I used the ferrules for connections but the wires were soldered in the ferrules first.

Good solder connections require good soldering technique and proper tools. Much of the bad press for solder comes from poorly made joints. Wire must be clean and preferably pretinned,
Quality solder is also a requisite as is a soldering iron that is up to the task.

Likewise good crimped connections require good technique and a good crimping tool. The latter is the biggest problem. A crimping tool purchased from the hardware store or DIY doesn't make proper crimps.

R J

[TurboStep]

+1 on solder.

I cut my teeth in electronics making soldered point to point connections. When I was experiencing connection failures of outside wiring due to corrosion, it became my practice to solder all automotive and marine connections. I have experienced few failures of soldered connections in the past fifty plus years and literally tens of thousands of connections.

It is possible to create a stress point in a soldered connection that will cause a break if the wire is flexed often. It is also possible to have a wire pull out of an improperly crimped connection. Aside from connecting a speaker, I always tin stranded wire going to a screw or clamp connector. When I made some mods to my 770, I used the ferrules for connections but the wires were soldered in the ferrules first.

Good solder connections require good soldering technique and proper tools. Much of the bad press for solder comes from poorly made joints. Wire must be clean and preferably pretinned,
Quality solder is also a requisite as is a soldering iron that is up to the task.

Likewise good crimped connections require good technique and a good crimping tool. The latter is the biggest problem. A crimping tool purchased from the hardware store or DIY doesn't make proper crimps.

R J

Although I'm sure you're not going to be interested, because you've already made up your mind, but for others might be interested in the following links explaining some of the issues.
Using just tinned wire (see terminal screw loosening):
Electrical Plugs: A Compendium of Problems
Crimping and tinning:
http://www.eptac.com/ask/when-to-tin-and-not-tin-wires/

Step

[109jb]

I believe the connector type that is in question here is like the one pictured here. So, the references are not exactly applicable for a number of reasons.

Using just tinned wire (see terminal screw loosening):
Electrical Plugs: A Compendium of Problems

The above is for "right-angle, locking, and straight parallel-blade plugs". In other words the plugs you stick into the wall outlet. This doesn't really apply here. In addition, the screw terminals in these type plugs are generally the type where the wire is wrapped around the screw body and the screw head clamps the wire. The green connectors like the stepper driver has is a clamp style and the clamp is what I would refer to as a parallel clamp where the actual screw doesn't even touch the wire. Definitely not a like you see in the connectors in the linked article.

Crimping and tinning:
http://www.eptac.com/ask/when-to-tin-and-not-tin-wires/

Step

The above reference also seems to apply to a wire wrapped around the body of a screw with the screw head clamping the wire.

If you did mean to reference connections where the wire wraps around the screw and the head clamps the wire, then I agree that those should never be tinned. If not then I believe your references are a bit misplaced.

Having said that, I don't think that the wire going into a green terminal like the stepper drivers have needs to be tinned or anything. A ferrule would be the best, but I don't see that using a bare end, or using a tinned wire end would make much difference. I personally have bare ends into connectors like that on my machine that I built in 2012 with no problems at all.

[TurboStep]

I believe the connector type that is in question here is like the one pictured here. So, the references are not exactly applicable for a number of reasons.

Firstly, I'm quite familiar with the connectors in question:
Attachment 333996

The above is for "right-angle, locking, and straight parallel-blade plugs". In other words the plugs you stick into the wall outlet. This doesn't really apply here. In addition, the screw terminals in these type plugs are generally the type where the wire is wrapped around the screw body and the screw head clamps the wire. The green connectors like the stepper driver has is a clamp style and the clamp is what I would refer to as a parallel clamp where the actual screw doesn't even touch the wire. Definitely not a like you see in the connectors in the linked article.

Of course this applies here too. This isn't a magic property of screws. It doesn't matter how the pressure is applied to the wire. Its simply the application of pressure that results in cold flow over time , especially when connected to devices which change in temperature. The important sentence of the first link is:
Tightening a terminal screw [whether directly or via washer or "parallel" plate] on a tinned wire exerts forces that cause "cold flow" of the solder. The wire-solder combinations relax and change shape, and the terminal screws loosen.
I'm sure you'll have to agree that even with these terminal blocks the parallel plate will be exerting a clamping force on the wire. This will result in cold flow of the solder and connectors like these are unable to maintain the necessary pressure.

The above reference also seems to apply to a wire wrapped around the body of a screw with the screw head clamping the wire.
If you did mean to reference connections where the wire wraps around the screw and the head clamps the wire, then I agree that those should never be tinned. If not then I believe your references are a bit misplaced.

The second link referred to "Crimping and tinning:". The article states:
Stranded wire shall not [...] be tinned when: [...] Wires will be used in crimp terminations...
The reasoning behind not tinning the wire is, if the wire is tinned, when the screw closes down on the wire [or the parallel plate], it would break the solder joint and leave an opening within the strands, which can be susceptible to vibration, loosening and corrosion.
However, I'm sure you'll find better references than mine if you take the time to research the subject.

Another issue which I'm sure many will be familiar with is when the outer strands begin to work harden, break and fray out where the solder ends. Soldering stranded wires is not always bad. Restraining the wires immediately after a soldered joint is acceptable, but this is a very different case to the issue under discussion.

Having said that, I don't think that the wire going into a green terminal like the stepper drivers have needs to be tinned or anything.

I fully agree. This is exactly what I stated in an earlier post. If you check the data sheet for these connector types you'll usually find they are specified for use with solid or stranded wires.

A ferrule would be the best, but I don't see that using a bare end, or using a tinned wire end would make much difference. I personally have bare ends into connectors like that on my machine that I built in 2012 with no problems at all.

Ferrule or bare is good. Tinned stranded wires are not recommended. If you're using bare ends on your machine then you're using the connectors as specified and you shouldn't have any issues at all. However, if you tinned the strands then I'd recommend at least going back inspect and re-tighten all the connections.
Step

[109jb]

Of course this applies here too. This isn't a magic property of screws. It doesn't matter how the pressure is applied to the wire. Its simply the application of pressure that results in cold flow over time , especially when connected to devices which change in temperature. The important sentence of the first link is:
Tightening a terminal screw [whether directly or via washer or "parallel" plate] on a tinned wire exerts forces that cause "cold flow" of the solder. The wire-solder combinations relax and change shape, and the terminal screws loosen.
I'm sure you'll have to agree that even with these terminal blocks the parallel plate will be exerting a clamping force on the wire. This will result in cold flow of the solder and connectors like these are unable to maintain the necessary pressure.

While I agree that a parallel plate exerts a clamping force I totally disagree that the force is applied in the same manner as a screw head. With the screw head there is a rotational component as well as the clamping force. The rotational component of the screw head sliding over the wire causes a wiping/shearing action that the parallel clamp simply does not. Also, the sentence you reference from the first link does not mention parallel clamps of any kind, so inserting it for you argument is not valid in any sort of way. Also, the article is for plugs on flexible cords that plug into the wall. As such they are susceptible to repeated, frequent movement. They are not, for the most part static as a stepper connection in an electronic cabinet is.

The second link referred to "Crimping and tinning:". The article states:
Stranded wire shall not [...] be tinned when: [...] Wires will be used in crimp terminations...
The reasoning behind not tinning the wire is, if the wire is tinned, when the screw closes down on the wire [or the parallel plate], it would break the solder joint and leave an opening within the strands, which can be susceptible to vibration, loosening and corrosion.
However, I'm sure you'll find better references than mine if you take the time to research the subject.

As you just stated

The article states: Stranded wire shall not [...] be tinned when: [...] Wires will be used in crimp terminations...

What does this have to do with putting the wire in a terminal block. a wire in a terminal block is not a crimped termination whether soldered or not.

Another issue which I'm sure many will be familiar with is when the outer strands begin to work harden, break and fray out where the solder ends. Soldering stranded wires is not always bad. Restraining the wires immediately after a soldered joint is acceptable, but this is a very different case to the issue under discussion.

I'm sure you are have seen stranded wires with borken strands at at screw terminations that were not tinned where you loosen the screw and broken strands fall out from under the screw head. I certainly have.

As for specification relating to this here is an example.

http://www.te.com/commerce/DocumentD...df%7F1445455-2

This is for a terminal connector that uses a non-rotating plate under the screw to clamp the wire. Look under the section about wire selection and termination where it says "Stranded wire should be pre--tinned before terminating."

Here is a picture from that document

Attachment 334070