[Ron111]

Bob,
Is Jorge's main thing wanting to cut threads or something more exciting than than that?

Ron

[jorgepease]

Ron111,
One of the capabilities I need is to cut threads. It is pretty high up on the list. In the meantime I can use taps and dies or maybe just get the VFD AC motor with spindle encoder. Have to decide what is more important indexing the piece or cutting threads, I hate compromises :devious:

Bob,
That is allot of info, I will go to the boards and add my voice to getting this firmware upgraded. I hope its not a long wait though, I am not a real patient guy, just emailed tech over there. How do the big toys make all this work? What about other drives, not Geckos.

All those workarounds :bs: is not what I want either. I'm half a step from jumping on a plane to Taiwan and seeing what I can whip up down there. It's really hard getting a mfg. attention over here.

Thanks for the info, can't say I understood it all but I am going to study it now.

Take care

[BobWarfield]

Jorge, I have not checked out any servo drives other than the Geckos.

Best,

BW

[asuratman]

Hi,
Can we use these product
http://www.candcnc.com/MP1000ProductsChart.htm - MP1000-SPS Spindle speed Providing a hardware interface for MACH3's Spindle Speed option
http://www.cnc4pc.com/Variable_Speed_Control_Board.htm - C6 - Variable Speed Control Board. We can control spindle speed so that you can cut thread. Thanks. Asuratman.

[jorgepease]

asuratman,

I think this is only for control of motor speed, not for indexing also.

Jorge

[Ron111]

Jorge,
If you decide to settle on just cutting threads, this is simple to do using an inductive proximity sensor as I did in the Harbor Freight 9X20 to cnc thread.
Ron

[asuratman]

Hi Ron,
What is an inductive proximity sensor? How does it works? What brand do you use? Thanks. Asuratman.

[Ron111]

Asuratman,
An inductive proximity sensor will detect a metal when it gets close to the sensor. I had mounted the proximity sensor close to the spindle shaft of my 9X20 lathe. I had drilled and tapped a hole and mounted a halfhight socket head screw in the spindle shaft and when the screw would pass the proximity sensor it would generate a spindle sync pulse and the control software would use this pulse to know at what position the spindle was in order to automate the threading operation on my cnc lathe.

I ordered my from http://www.automationdirect.com and it cost somewhere around $20 plus shipping.

Some others use proximity sensors for limit switches.

Ron

[jorgepease]

Ron,

That is the most practical sounding way I have heard so far. The other solutions I have seen are getting up there money wise.

I still don't understand how come Art says I can index the spindle and do threading etc in printer port mode. Maybe he means with a spindle encoder a VFD and a brake. Can you jog to a specific point that way?

Also, how can I determine how much motor the Gecko drives can handle. Do you think they would drive a 1 hp servo?

Dang! my desk just exploded. I have a glass desktop and it just shattered. Only had a coupld of flat screens on it, shoot. I'm bleeding a bit just minor cuts but its staining the rug,

signing off.

take care,

JP

[Ron111]

jorge,
You may be he first guy that we almost lost while actualy typing on the forum, that's the most exitement I've seen here in a while. Hope, you are recovering from the desk assalt. I guess, working too hard can be hazardous to your health, in more ways than one.

Try a little (or a good bit) of hydrogen peroxide on the rug and it will help get some of the stain out.

Art knows of what he speaks, but for me I try to do it as simple as possible!!

I really like the mach3 threading wizard (the simple threading one), and found it very interesting just to watch the threading operation.

Take care,

Ron

[fkaCarel]

You may be he first guy that we almost lost while actualy typing on the forum

Problem is the post button, it disturbs the realtime capture . And of course I wish Jorge also a quick recovery. Also we don't need a thread: "I am considering a glass desktop".

But a question to Ron, at which rpm are you threading? I once programmed a Fanuc and 800-1000 was normal. And amazing. But I'm still collecting data for an affordable, reasonable cost and working solution, which delivers the quality I want.

[jorgepease]

They say most accidents happen at home... but an exploding desk??
It's going to take me a week to find all the glass, it's everywhere.

Art knows of what he speaks, but for me I try to do it as simple as possible!!

I wont argue with that! Might end up doing that too but from what I understand Art can't do anything because Gecko needs to update the firmware... but I am not stuck on Gecko's, doesn't anybody else have a drive or G100 type box that can do the same thing using Mach3 software?

I have started talks with suppliers of machine tool components in Taiwan and China. I am considering opening a "CNC Supermarket". In my opinion this market is not being serviced very well. I should be able to go on-line and select, for example, a lathe bed from a menu. All subsequent menus should dynamically adjust as I go so the next menu I can select only spindles that are compatable, then next menu will display only compatable motors and so on all the way down the line. Then I should be able to purchase my custom configured components or save it as a bill of materials wish list and purchase as I have the money. One central integrated source!

This first machine is going to be done the hard way though since I need it in max a couple of months.

[BobWarfield]

Jorge, the Gecko drivers will work with most anything that can output step and direction systems. The fact that they take step and direction even for the servo drivers makes it really easy to upgrade a stepper-based sysem to servos with them, BTW.

As to the GRex/G100, nobody makes one yet. Rumor has it that several organizations are trying to do something similar based around USB, but so far these are just distant rumors. Given how long it is taking GRex to fully mature, I'm not sure I would hold my breath.

I suspect the reason GRex is incompatible with the simple pulse reading-type threading is that it probably does not allow fine enough control (ironically) over the speeds of the axes from outside, so if they are to be synchronized, it must be done within the GRex. In any event, speculation is interesting, but won't make it happen any faster.

Jorge, do you have a list of all the inputs and outputs you want to run for your lathe? If you did, we could at least give it a stare and try to decide whether an alternative would work. You can run up to 2 parallel boards, a ModIO, and an iPac keyboard emulator. This will work, it's just a bit more cumbersome. Given a choice of cumbersome and working vs slick and not working yet, you might well choose to get things working faster. The boards will all be stuck in a chassis after all.

BTW, in addition to inductive proximity sensors, you may also use various light-enabled sensors that work by reading light and dark areas on the spinning spindle. You get those with black tape or by spray painting one or more black patches. The more "features" your sensor (inductive or light) can "see" in a single revolution, the more precisely it can synchronize. One is the minimum, but I seem to recall Mach can accept up to 40. If you have more than one, one of them needs to be quite a bit larger than the others so mach can find position relative to that one and speed relative to all of the others. This is all covered quite well in the Mach 3 Turn documentation.

Best,

BW

[Ron111]

fkaCarel,
I believe I was threading at about 150 rpm, because I had 30 inches of ballscrew sticking out the end of the spindle, this was on a 9X20. At this speed I could control the whip. It was pretty neat.

Ron

[jorgepease]

Jorge, do you have a list of all the inputs and outputs you want to run for your lathe? If you did, we could at least give it a stare and try to decide whether an alternative would work. You can run up to 2 parallel boards, a ModIO, and an iPac keyboard emulator. This will work, it's just a bit more cumbersome. Given a choice of cumbersome and working vs slick and not working yet, you might well choose to get things working faster. The boards will all be stuck in a chassis after all.
BW

Ideally I want to have some limit switches, I want to be able to turn on coolant or mysting system, I want to control a power chuck, and I want to have at least 1 live tool.

I want these things because I want to be able to walk away and tend to another machine or whatever even if it's just for 15 min at a time. There may be other things I need to control as I go but if I could do this I would be happy

[BobWarfield]

Jorge, designing the I/O plan for one of these machines is a complex business. I wrote up a little page to try to help folks understand the capabilities of the breakout boards, how to get more I/O, and as an example, provided the I/O list for my CNC Lathe project:

http://www.thewarfields.com/MT/MTCNCBreakoutIO.htm

You may also find my CNC Dictionary helpful:

http://www.thewarfields.com/MT/MTCNCDictionary.htm

Looking at your I/O list, I have the following:

X Step Output 1
X Dir Output 2
Z Step Output 3
Z Dir Output 4
Spindle Step Output 5
Spindle Dir Output 6
Flood Coolant Output 7
Mist Coolant Output 8
Chuck Output 9
Live Tool On/Off Output 10
Live Tool Direction Output 11
Live Tool Speed Output 12

X Limit Input 1
Z Limit Input 2

So, you need at least 12 outputs and 2 inputs. I'll bet you find a lot more if you think about it. For example, there's nothing from a control panel here. I guess you could run it all from the Mach screen. There is no possibility for a tool touchsetter, no spindle index proximity sensor, etc., etc.

Anyway, a basic parallel breakout board will give you 11 outputs and 5 inputs. That's getting pretty close, so not too bad. You could add a ModIO and pretty much be there with some spares, again assuming no control panel or pendant. If you need a panel and/or pendant, it gets hairy in a hurry coming up with enough I/O.

Anyway, I hope this helps you to understand how to think about this issue of breakout boards and I/O.

Best,

BW

[jorgepease]

Bob,

just read your article, that was very educational thanks.

I know I want the CW and CCW spindle as well probably others. I have a few more leads to chase down but it looks like I might have to go with Mach3/Grex and wait for full funtionality.

I have been watching the Galil videos, they are very educational as well. I noticed on Galil videos that they don't use G codes, they have their own tags. Do you know if they also support G code?

[Al_The_Man]

Galil requires front end software for inputting in the form of G code etc, one of these is third party s/w by Camsoft, Galil does however have a DXf to Galil Native code translator.
Al.

[jorgepease]

thanks Al

I feel like I am on a dadgum'd treasure hunt here!

Bob mentions in his article that Art of Mach3 may be working on interface for Galil, maybe that is developing faster than Grex, I will check into it.

Regressing a bit,
From my earlier hunt for Ball Screws

Would a P3 or P4 grade ball screw be considered good? I don't know how to work out the below formula, I put it in as an image since font is not supported for the math character. Maybe it's incomplete...

[BobWarfield]

Jorge, as I understand it, Al & Co are just starting on the Galil. Whatever they may say about expected availability, and with all due respect, you need to factor in a few heaping tablespoons of salt.

The Mach team are excellent developers, but these motion controllers are very new territory. GRex forced a serious rearchitecting of Mach to be able to handle it, which resulted in months of delay from the original expected availability of full GRex support. Mach just wasn't set up to "think" the way the GRex did. Given that re-architecting, things are probably much closer for Galil, but my point is they won't know for sure until they're almost done. In the case of the GRex, Mach 4 was out there supporting GRex and working for a number of folks. It looked like just a matter of mopping the remaining bugs when Art announced the need to retrench.

Again, no harm no foul to Art and his merry band. This is hard complex stuff. I almost wish I had chosen the path of a parallel board, ModIO, and keyboard emulator. While it is much less elegant, I would be done with the electronics and my lathe would be able to thread today. Weigh carefully how far out on the "bleeding edge" you want to be, Jorge, and be emotionally prepared for a lot of unexpected problems and delays if you choose the experimental end of the spectrum.

Best,

BW