[Geof]

.....It was the first thing I wrote - don't expect Hemingway!

Very good!

Have you read much about the final century or so of the Roman Empire? I have read a little and there are some parallels. And then of course moving into fiction all we are missing these days is Huxley's Soma. Which bring's to mind an interesting thought; why are 'the powers that be' so opposed to recreational drug use when it is potentially such a powerful tool for manipulation?

[tobyaxis]

Very good!

Have you read much about the final century or so of the Roman Empire? I have read a little and there are some parallels. And then of course moving into fiction all we are missing these days is Huxley's Soma. Which bring's to mind an interesting thought; why are 'the powers that be' so opposed to recreational drug use when it is potentially such a powerful tool for manipulation?

Geof,

I see you have read "The Brave New World". How interesting to see someone else has read this piece of literature that has long been forgotten. What else have you read?

BTW: Geof your post here is your 1776 Thanks for the INDEPENDENCE DAY!!! you timed this perfectly!!!!

[chronon1]

Guys - check this link out even if you don't read it all -- (language content in there so discretion please if you are younger)

Bush and the boys about to "false flag" us again....
Posted by: "globalmirage" [email protected] globalmirage
Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:10 pm (PST)

If you havent seen this then check it out.
Regardless of its accuracy I believe that Gorge Bush and
his criminal gang will strike again before the midterm
elecctions to try and avoid loosing control of congress.


http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?id=4957

[pminmo]

Find a job yet?

[chronon1]

Yeah Phil - -I 'm anxious to get back to the grind, mayxe even extra OT to pay uncle sam for these overseas unwarranted wars .. with my IRS collections, SS and medicaire reductions ...

I'm sure your collecting a nice, big fat SS check that pays all your bills and you'll get every penny back you put into the SS system too , right ? After all, is was set up supposedly for your retirement welfare, so you wouldn't have to set up shop and keep working or be 70 yrs old and working at McD's .... Somehow, I don't think most people's lifestyle by this time in their lives is well supported by their monthly SS check....

[dertsap]

Very good!

Have you read much about the final century or so of the Roman Empire? I have read a little and there are some parallels. And then of course moving into fiction all we are missing these days is Huxley's Soma. Which bring's to mind an interesting thought; why are 'the powers that be' so opposed to recreational drug use when it is potentially such a powerful tool for manipulation?

the governments disallows the use of drugs to please the moral majority
on the other hand how many children ,mostly boys are being pumped full of ridlyn because they are so called A.D.D. ,i was a kid once i remember what it was like to sit in class for 6 hrs with my mouth shut , it wasn t easy , drugs are being used to control the future generations , ridlyn is one of the most perscribed drugs going , i know a number of families who had the kids diagnosed A.D.D as well as my own son , did i give him drugs NO ,i dealt with the problem as a father should , some of these other kids are being pumped full of these drugs and it shows ,they aren t the same kid , both methods got the kids paying attention in school ,why because one is sitting with half his brain not working while the other one is worried about getting his ars kicked when he comes home ,

the days of the free thinking poet who thought differently from the rest saw the world differently from the rest are near over

[pminmo]

Yeah Phil - -I 'm anxious to get back to the grind, mayxe even extra OT to pay uncle sam for these overseas unwarranted wars .. with my IRS collections, SS and medicaire reductions ...

I'm sure your collecting a nice, big fat SS check that pays all your bills and you'll get every penny back you put into the SS system too , right ? After all, is was set up supposedly for your retirement welfare, so you wouldn't have to set up shop and keep working or be 70 yrs old and working at McD's .... Somehow, I don't think most people's lifestyle by this time in their lives is well supported by their monthly SS check....

Nope, I'm a decade away from SS if it's available then. Do a google search on "the job trap" which is similar to my thinking over the last 3 decades. When I started working, my plan was to save, invest, spend money wisely. A conservative approach to life that works. :cheers: Rely on self and you will be lightyears ahead of the pack. Rely on the government, and you will be poor............. Look at all the impoverished that has been given the same song and dance for decades. Give a person a meal, and they will still be in need of a handout the next meal. Teach them to fish..............

There is more opportunity for individuals to prosper now than probably ever since the beginning of time, but there are many who don't want you to see that. Anybody that participates in this blog, is capable............

[chronon1]

Phil, that is a an eye opener for me -- but did you goto www.freedomtofasicm.com and sign up as a volunteer to help A. Russo distribute/show the movie ?

Yes you can't rely on govt - if you do you wind up in the project or on the street - but then again , damnit, if you want to invest for yourself , then you should be FORCED to pay damn SS into your retirement when you can invest it yourself - ( very wealthy people don't have to pay SS for this reason) - or so I am told by a guy at the gym (sounds like a cridible source) ..

but did you start your hydrogen powered car yet - that project is one worth doing if you can get stainless steel valves and ceramic coated cylinders, pistons and exhaust ....
**********************************
I just picked this up on the news .. this is scary .....



Prepare for more war, America - like it or not, the fuse has been lit.

'October Surprise' - exactly what we expected

Prepare for more war, America - like it or not, the fuse has been lit.

The Bush Administration and the Pentagon have issued orders for a major "strike group" of ships, including the nuclear aircraft carrier Eisenhower as well as a cruiser, destroyer, frigate, submarine escort and supply ship, to head for the Persian Gulf, just off Iran's western coast. This information follows a report in the current issue of Time magazine, both online and in print, that a group of ships capable of mining harbors has received orders to be ready to sail for the Persian Gulf by October 1.

As Time writes in its cover story, "What Would War Look Like?," evidence of the forward deployment of minesweepers and word that the chief of naval operations had asked for a reworking of old plans for mining Iranian harbors "suggest that a much discussed--but until now largely theoretical--prospect has become real: that the U.S. may be preparing for war with Iran."

According to Lieut. Mike Kafka, a spokesman at the headquarters of the Second Fleet, based in Norfolk, Virginia, the Eisenhower Strike Group, bristling with Tomahawk cruise missiles, has received recent orders to depart the United States in a little over a week. Other official sources in the public affairs office of the Navy Department at the Pentagon confirm that this powerful armada is scheduled to arrive off the coast of Iran on or around October 21.

The Eisenhower had been in port at the Naval Station Norfolk for several years for refurbishing and refueling of its nuclear reactor; it had not been scheduled to depart for a new duty station until at least a month later, and possibly not till next spring. Family members, before the orders, had moved into the area and had until then expected to be with their sailor-spouses and parents in Virginia for some time yet. First word of the early dispatch of the "Ike Strike" group to the Persian Gulf region came from several angry officers on the ships involved, who contacted antiwar critics like retired Air Force Col. Sam Gardiner and complained that they were being sent to attack Iran without any order from the Congress.

"This is very serious," said Ray McGovern, a former CIA threat-assessment analyst who got early word of the Navy officers' complaints about the sudden deployment orders. (McGovern, a twenty-seven-year veteran of the CIA, resigned in 2002 in protest over what he said were Bush Administration pressures to exaggerate the threat posed by Iraq. He and other intelligence agency critics have formed a group called Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity.)

Colonel Gardiner, who has taught military strategy at the National War College, says that the carrier deployment and a scheduled Persian Gulf arrival date of October 21 is "very important evidence" of war planning. He says, "I know that some naval forces have already received 'prepare to deploy orders' [PTDOs], which have set the date for being ready to go as October 1. Given that it would take about from October 2 to October 21 to get those forces to the Gulf region, that looks about like the date" of any possible military action against Iran. (A PTDO means that all crews should be at their stations, and ships and planes should be ready to go, by a certain date--in this case, reportedly, October 1.) Gardiner notes, "You cannot issue a PTDO and then stay ready for very long. It's a very significant order, and it's not done as a training exercise." This point was also made in the Time article.

So what is the White House planning?

On Monday President Bush addressed the UN General Assembly at its opening session, and while studiously avoiding even physically meeting Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who was also addressing the body, he offered a two-pronged message. Bush told the "people of Iran" that "we're working toward a diplomatic solution to this crisis" and that he looked forward "to the day when you can live in freedom." But he also warned that Iran's leaders were using the nation's resources "to fund terrorism and fuel extremism and pursue nuclear weapons." Given the President's assertion that the nation is fighting a "global war on terror" and that he is Commander in Chief of that "war," his prominent linking of the Iran regime with terror has to be seen as a deliberate effort to claim his right to carry the fight there. Bush has repeatedly insisted that the 2001 Congressional Authorization for the Use of Force that preceded the invasion of Afghanistan was also an authorization for an unending "war on terror."

Even as Bush was making not-so-veiled threats at the UN, his former Secretary of State, Colin Powell, a sharp critic of any unilateral US attack on Iran, was in Norfolk, not far from the Eisenhower, advocating further diplomatic efforts to deal with Iran's nuclear program--itself tantalizing evidence of the policy struggle over whether to go to war, and that those favoring an attack may be winning that struggle.

"I think the plan's been picked: bomb the nuclear sites in Iran," says Gardiner. "It's a terrible idea, it's against US law and it's against international law, but I think they've decided to do it." Gardiner says that while the United States has the capability to hit those sites with its cruise missiles, "the Iranians have many more options than we do: They can activate Hezbollah; they can organize riots all over the Islamic world, including Pakistan, which could bring down the Musharraf government, putting nuclear weapons into terrorist hands; they can encourage the Shia militias in Iraq to attack US troops; they can blow up oil pipelines and shut the Persian Gulf." Most of the major oil-producing states in the Middle East have substantial Shiite populations, which has long been a concern of their own Sunni leaders and of Washington policy-makers, given the sometimes close connection of Shiite populations to Iran's religious rulers.

Of course, Gardiner agrees, recent ship movements and other signs of military preparedness could be simply a bluff designed to show toughness in the bargaining with Iran over its nuclear program. But with the Iranian coast reportedly armed to the teeth with Chinese Silkworm antiship missiles, and possibly even more sophisticated Russian antiship weapons, against which the Navy has little reliable defenses, it seems unlikely the Navy would risk high-value assets like aircraft carriers or cruisers with such a tactic. Nor has bluffing been a Bush MO to date.

Commentators and analysts across the political spectrum are focusing on Bush's talk about dialogue, with many claiming that he is climbing down from confrontation. On the right, David Frum, writing on September 20 in his National Review blog, argues that the lack of any attempt to win a UN resolution supporting military action, and rumors of "hushed back doors" being opened in Washington, lead him to expect a diplomatic deal, not a unilateral attack. Writing in the center, Washington Post reporter Glenn Kessler saw in Bush's UN speech evidence that "war is no longer a viable option" in Iran. Even on the left, where confidence in the Bush Administration's judgment is abysmally low, commentators like Noam Chomsky and Nation contributor Robert Dreyfuss are skeptical that an attack is being planned. Chomsky has long argued that Washington's leaders aren't crazy, and would not take such a step--though more recently, he has seemed less sanguine about Administration sanity and has suggested that leaks about war plans may be an effort by military leaders--who are almost universally opposed to widening the Mideast war--to arouse opposition to such a move by Bush and war advocates like Cheney. Dreyfuss, meanwhile, in an article for the online journal TomPaine.com, focuses on the talk of diplomacy in Bush's Monday UN speech, not on his threats, and concludes that it means "the realists have won" and that there will be no Iran attack.

But all these war skeptics may be whistling past the graveyard. After all, it must be recalled that Bush also talked about seeking diplomatic solutions the whole time he was dead-set on invading Iraq, and the current situation is increasingly looking like a cheap Hollywood sequel. The United States, according to Gardiner and others, already reportedly has special forces operating in Iran, and now major ship movements are looking ominous.

Representative Maurice Hinchey, a leading Democratic critic of the Iraq War, informed about the Navy PTDOs and about the orders for the full Eisenhower Strike Group to head out to sea, said, "For some time there has been speculation that there could be an attack on Iran prior to November 7, in order to exacerbate the culture of fear that the Administration has cultivated now for over five or six years. But if they attack Iran it will be a very bad mistake, for the Middle East and for the US. It would only make worse the antagonism and fear people feel towards our country. I hope this Administration is not so foolish and irresponsible." He adds, "Military people are deeply concerned about the overtaxing of the military already."

Calls for comment from the White House on Iran war plans and on the order for the Eisenhower Strike Group to deploy were referred to the National Security Council press office, which declined to return this reporter's phone calls.

McGovern, who had first told a group of anti-Iraq War activists Sunday on the National Mall in Washington, DC, during an ongoing action called "Camp Democracy," about his being alerted to the strike group deployment, warned, "We have about seven weeks to try and stop this next war from happening."

One solid indication that the dispatch of the Eisenhower is part of a force buildup would be if the carrier Enterprise--currently in the Arabian Sea, where it has been launching bombing runs against the Taliban in Afghanistan, and which is at the end of its normal six-month sea tour--is kept on station instead of sent back to the United States. Arguing against simple rotation of tours is the fact that the Eisenhower's refurbishing and its dispatch were rushed forward by at least a month. A report from the Enterprise on the Navy's official website referred to its ongoing role in the Afghanistan fighting, and gave no indication of plans to head back to port. The Navy itself has no comment on the ship's future orders.

Jim Webb, Secretary of the Navy in the Reagan Administration and currently a Democratic candidate for Senate in Virginia, expressed some caution about reports of the carrier deployment, saying, "Remember, carrier groups regularly rotate in and out of that region." But he added, "I do not believe that there should be any elective military action taken against Iran without a separate authorization vote by the Congress. In my view, the 2002 authorization which was used for the invasion of Iraq should not extend to Iran."

Unfortunately for the world, El Diablo - not Webb - is in charge.
posted by qrswave @ Friday, September 22, 2006

[miljnor]

I think someone took down the freedom to fascism web sight. it has just advertisments on it now.

gee coincidence???

[chronon1]

Fear not !! Liberty will prevail the dislesick and typografically challanges d !1!!

http://www.freedomtofascism.com/


fascism is certainly not an often spelled or used word .. ...
but try it now !!!

[pminmo]

Now why would I go to freedomtofascism.com? I live in a free society, I'm free to do what I want that is lawfull?

[chronon1]

if you sit back and do nothing you will see things slowly change until you can only do nothing !!!

cant you see the signns around you ? phil you must have it really cushy and plush where you are .. . things are not so good from my viewpoint ....

[pminmo]

I see plenty of signs: People driving cars, living in decent housing, so well fed obiesity is a problem, freedom to worshop or not worship. There are a lot of issues I don't agree with also, but we are a society of millions, many people will push one way, the rest the other.

Why is it so bad from your viewpoint? You obviously have a computer and net connectivity? Are you starving, homeless? Do you have utilities?

[chronon1]

come on Phil -- see those Aaron Russo clips .. the interviews and movie pieces -- it's all the stuff in there .. fed reserve. / IRS / national id card / chipping / big oil profits-corruption/ big pharmaceutical profit-corruption / war profits and corruption / government-military -industrio-corporate complex (all working together towards there end, not necessarily what's in the interest of the 300 million Americans)

a computer connection is almost a basic thing these days like a cell phone - everybody has them - eating of course is more basic - everybody really has that - home, they are optional .. in warm climates you can survive under a bridge a while .... ha -

I am most upset about all the hub-bub of the 9-11 BS -- and all the job loss, oil / markets ratcheting - terror warnings/alerts , etc ..

if you beleive 19 hijackers brought 2 - 110 story buildings down to dust by smashing with a large airplane, then i still have that swamp land down here in florida to sell you and 'the pump man's coming 2nd thursday next week to make it dry again ' ..

[miljnor]

Now why would I go to freedomtofascism.com? I live in a free society, I'm free to do what I want that is lawfull?

curiousity maybe?


The voting system is broken, using an elected official is almost usless, educating the public is the best but until someone manages to purchase a major News conglomerate I don't see this going anywhere.

The reason why history always repeats itself isn't that people forget, its that people always tend to think their situation is different. WE THE PEOPLE already gave up the ghost per say when they let the poloticians change things back in 1913 with the fedral reserve. And to change it back would be the same as starting a civil war. The money system will collapse. So in the end the same outcome will be the same as every other time in history.

The founding fathers said it best:

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

I personally don't think anything can be change without a massive upheavel but I applaud everyones efforts.

My solutions to most problems political tend to be machiavilian at best, so I tend to stay at home.

unless a violent revolution starts while I am young my participation will be as a disapointed observer. Because unlike others I don't think you can fix most politcal systems from inside, as human nature will always prevail.

In short I will keep on doing what I do, and aurgue for the sake of education. In the hopes that at least someone else, while they might disagree, will at least start to think on these points. because in order to solve a problem you have to first know that you have one!

[tobyaxis]

In short I will keep on doing what I do, and aurgue for the sake of education. In the hopes that at least someone else, while they might disagree, will at least start to think on these points. because in order to solve a problem you have to first know that you have one!


Well said:cheers:

[pminmo]

come on Phil -- see those Aaron Russo clips .. the interviews and movie pieces -- it's all the stuff in there .. fed reserve. / IRS / national id card / chipping / big oil profits-corruption/ big pharmaceutical profit-corruption / war profits and corruption / government-military -industrio-corporate complex (all working together towards there end, not necessarily what's in the interest of the 300 million Americans)

#1, russo is only interested in one thing, his pocket book. If he can't read and understand that the constitution gives the legislature the authority to tax, and the fact that it was even more clearly clarified in the 16th amendment.
#2 do some self education on economics, then you will understand the need for a banking system.
#3 national ID card, long over due. the only peple that benifit by not having one, are those who are involved in illegal activities. If you have a bank account, credit card, trash pickup, cell phone...you have given away more pertinent personal information.......than a national id card will ever cause.
#4 chipping won't happen in your lifetime.
#5 big oil profits, read up on futures then you will understand market dynamics.
#6 big corporations, lets see, they employ millions of people, sure shut them down.....
#7 war profits, yea right. Government contractors profit margins are typically not that great, most decent commecrial corporations are much better, do the research.

a computer connection is almost a basic thing these days like a cell phone - everybody has them - eating of course is more basic - everybody really has that - home, they are optional .. in warm climates you can survive under a bridge a while .... ha -

You need to do some world travelling, and see people who don't have electricity, running water, indoor plumbing, open human waste ditches....., places that people live in real fear of their lives because some dictator doesn't wants to watch someone killed for their own viewing pleasure.

I am most upset about all the hub-bub of the 9-11 BS -- and all the job loss, oil / markets ratcheting - terror warnings/alerts , etc ..
if you beleive 19 hijackers brought 2 - 110 story buildings down to dust by smashing with a large airplane, then i still have that swamp land down here in florida to sell you and 'the pump man's coming 2nd thursday next week to make it dry again ' ..

So you think we didn't lose 241 soldiers in 1983 when a barracks was bombed, or WTC wasn't bombed in 1993, or the USS Cole in 2000, how about the Bali embasy bombing, Spain and Londons attacks fake too? What about the Iranian hostage crisis in 79? Or the Turkey hotel attack? Did we put men on the moon?:stickpoke

Bin Laden said in 98 he ws going to attack the US on it's own soil, he did. And the people he trained don't intend to stop. In their world you either follow them, or you shouldn't be alive.

He also said he had nuke's about the same time....I hope none of us live in a place that will eventually be nuked by his followers.

[austin.mn]

Great another movie that i would like to see and will have to drive three hours to get to the theater to see it... the other movie that i drove that lenght to see was "worlds fastest indian" : http://www.worldsfastestindian.com/

which if you have not seen is now in video stores, and i highly recommend it!

[CNCoperator123]

if you beleive 19 hijackers brought 2 - 110 story buildings down to dust by smashing with a large airplane, then i still have that swamp land down here in florida to sell you and 'the pump man's coming 2nd thursday next week to make it dry again ' ..

Wow. I'm sure you are a very smart person, but this is just dumb. I don't see how anyone who has actually looked over the evidence could belive there is a conspiracy in any of it. I would love to hear your reasoning if you have done the research about it.

[epineh]

the other movie that i drove that lenght to see was "worlds fastest indian" : http://www.worldsfastestindian.com/

which if you have not seen is now in video stores, and i highly recommend it!

Watched that a couple of nights ago, one of the best movies I have seen for a while.

Russell.