[handlewanker]

Interest on the loan.........oh dear, that is only a 30% tax return for a 100% outlay .....in OZ that is.

Anything you buy that is work related and gets tax deducted is still a burden when you have to pay out top dollar and only get back peanuts......better than nothing I suppose.

I suppose a loan is one way to finance a workshop.........loans are almost as bad as credit cards at 20% +.

I went down a different path when I set up in business in '95.......it's called an asset builder loan account......min take out is $20,000, then you only have to pay the interest each month on the amount you use if you want to, no other charges........same rate as your mortgage.....ours was 5% back then.

About that time I shredded my credit card as the rate was too high.

If you want to end it you just pay off the principle, but the beauty of it is you don't have to re-apply for a loan once it's set up and you have a surplus balance..............also you have to have property with enough equity in it......a careful funds management strategy is a must have or you'll end up owing your soul to the bank.

Hmmmm, Tormach is ALL Chinese??...... wow, the China syndrome is alive and kicking in USA despite what Trump has dreamed up on the platform of lies and lost promises last election day.

Perhaps attributes was a long word to use for the Skyfire, Haas or Tormach et all banana bunch,...... comparison maybe.............in my book if it ain't at least got linear rails, it ain't a CNC mill no matter what the size was and anything without balls crews or ISO 30 is a non starter too.......oh yeah, and a factory fitted enclosure is a must have.

I have ISO 20 on my mill.....it might be BT20 as it has a pull stud......but for anything bigger I'd go for BT30 (with the pull stud).
Ian.

[mactec54]

Interest on the loan.........oh dear, that is only a 30% tax return for a 100% outlay .....in OZ that is.

Anything you buy that is work related and gets tax deducted is still a burden when you have to pay out top dollar and only get back peanuts......better than nothing I suppose.

I suppose a loan is one way to finance a workshop.........loans are almost as bad as credit cards at 20% +.

I went down a different path when I set up in business in '95.......it's called an asset builder loan account......min take out is $20,000, then you only have to pay the interest each month on the amount you use if you want to, no other charges........same rate as your mortgage.....ours was 5% back then.

About that time I shredded my credit card as the rate was too high.

If you want to end it you just pay off the principle, but the beauty of it is you don't have to re-apply for a loan once it's set up and you have a surplus balance..............also you have to have property with enough equity in it......a careful funds management strategy is a must have or you'll end up owing your soul to the bank.

Hmmmm, Tormach is ALL Chinese??...... wow, the China syndrome is alive and kicking in USA despite what Trump has dreamed up on the platform of lies and lost promises last election day.

Perhaps attributes was a long word to use for the Skyfire, Haas or Tormach et all banana bunch,...... comparison maybe.............in my book if it ain't at least got linear rails, it ain't a CNC mill no matter what the size was and anything without balls crews or ISO 30 is a non starter too.......oh yeah, and a factory fitted enclosure is a must have.

I have ISO 20 on my mill.....it might be BT20 as it has a pull stud......but for anything bigger I'd go for BT30 (with the pull stud).
Ian.

I not sure what Trump has to do with anything, just a propaganda machine, anyone would have to be very foolish to take anything he says seriously

The Haas Machine he is getting is a Cat 40, and is 1542Kg or close to 3500Lbs dry weight

If the buyer here has good credit, then he can get a very low interest loan if one needs it, Haas has there own finance program also, if one leases a machine with a $1 buy out at the end, every cent you pay for the lease is tax deductible

[GITERDUN]

[QUOTE=handlewanker;2108112



Hmmmm, Tormach is ALL Chinese??...... wow, the China syndrome is alive and kicking in USA despite what Trump has dreamed up on the platform of lies and lost promises last election day.


I have ISO 20 on my mill.....

Dude,
Not sure how you missed the fact that Tormach is made in China, since you seem to be delving into every detail of someone else's purchase.
Regarding Trump, you should worry about your own back yard where your Deputy Prime Minister is a citizen of New Zealand , not Australia.

[Goemon]

[QUOTE=handlewanker;2108112]Interest on the loan.........oh dear, that is only a 30% tax return for a 100% outlay .....in OZ that is.

Anything you buy that is work related and gets tax deducted is still a burden when you have to pay out top dollar and only get back peanuts......better than nothing I suppose.

I suppose a loan is one way to finance a workshop.........loans are almost as bad as credit cards at 20% +.

I went down a different path when I set up in business in '95.......it's called an asset builder loan account......min take out is $20,000, then you only have to pay the interest each month on the amount you use if you want to, no other charges........same rate as your mortgage.....ours was 5% back then.

About that time I shredded my credit card as the rate was too high.

If you want to end it you just pay off the principle, but the beauty of it is you don't have to re-apply for a loan once it's set up and you have a surplus balance..............also you have to have property with enough equity in it......a careful funds management strategy is a must have or you'll end up owing your soul to the bank.

Hmmmm, Tormach is ALL Chinese??...... wow, the China syndrome is alive and kicking in USA despite what Trump has dreamed up on the platform of lies and lost promises last election day.

Perhaps attributes was a long word to use for the Skyfire, Haas or Tormach et all banana bunch,...... comparison maybe.............in my book if it ain't at least got linear rails, it ain't a CNC mill no matter what the size was and anything without balls crews or ISO 30 is a non starter too.......oh yeah, and a factory fitted enclosure is a must have.

I have ISO 20 on my mill.....it might be BT20 as it has a pull stud......but for anything bigger I'd go for BT30 (with the pull stud



Not to get political or anything but everything Trump makes is made in China and funded by Russia. He makes nothing in America....

IMO, something like a Tormach is a different experience to buying direct from Chinese vendors like Skyfire. Having an honest, trustworthy local business to deal with and having local help, a local guarantee and a level of QC that is.... um.... how to put this.... more culturally aligned with our expectations for the price, changes (almost) everything.


My main issues with buying direct from China are the frustrating customer service experience (or lack there of) and the large number of dishonest vendors combined with a lack of recourse when you get screwed-over. For the most part, quality meets expectations - i.e. It's low but consistent with the price.


It is far too common for Chinese vendors to do unethical things like sending broken goods and then expecting us to pay the $500 or $1000 in return shipping. Or worse, as people here found, taking people's money without being honest about their lack of ability to deliver. Dealing with Chinese vendors direct is often a nightmare.


I also had no response to the emails I sent to Skyfire asking for pricing. Sounds like I got lucky though. A vendor with a track record of steeling thousands of dollars from people here with no communications for 2 or 3 years is more than a red flag. Even if it only happened twice, nobody here should be trusting a company like that with thousands of dollars before seeing the goods.


I know what it's like with a start-up. Sometimes you accept people's money thinking you can deliver and then stuff happens. When it does though, you give back the money immediately and apologize. Keeping the money and going radio silent for two years is steeling. There is no acceptable excuse for that.


With that said, a little common sense is needed from our side when buying anything online.... At the very least, if you have to buy from Skyfire, pay through PayPal and raise a claim if they haven't delivered within a month. If it is going to take 6 months and you are ok with that, pay at the end, not the beginning..... this is common sense! You aren't a bank to fund their start-up costs... letting the money ride past your claim period is stupidity.

[louieatienza]

Not to get political or anything but everything Trump makes is made in China and funded by Russia. He makes nothing in America....

IMO, something like a Tormach is a different experience to buying direct from Chinese vendors like Skyfire. Having an honest, trustworthy local business to deal with and having local help, a local guarantee and a level of QC that is.... um.... how to put this.... more culturally aligned with our expectations for the price, changes (almost) everything.


My main issues with buying direct from China are the frustrating customer service experience (or lack there of) and the large number of dishonest vendors combined with a lack of recourse when you get screwed-over. For the most part, quality meets expectations - i.e. It's low but consistent with the price.


It is far too common for Chinese vendors to do unethical things like sending broken goods and then expecting us to pay the $500 or $1000 in return shipping. Or worse, as people here found, taking people's money without being honest about their lack of ability to deliver. Dealing with Chinese vendors direct is often a nightmare.


I also had no response to the emails I sent to Skyfire asking for pricing. Sounds like I got lucky though. A vendor with a track record of steeling thousands of dollars from people here with no communications for 2 or 3 years is more than a red flag. Even if it only happened twice, nobody here should be trusting a company like that with thousands of dollars before seeing the goods.


I know what it's like with a start-up. Sometimes you accept people's money thinking you can deliver and then stuff happens. When it does though, you give back the money immediately and apologize. Keeping the money and going radio silent for two years is steeling. There is no acceptable excuse for that.


With that said, a little common sense is needed from our side when buying anything online.... At the very least, if you have to buy from Skyfire, pay through PayPal and raise a claim if they haven't delivered within a month. If it is going to take 6 months and you are ok with that, pay at the end, not the beginning..... this is common sense! You aren't a bank to fund their start-up costs... letting the money ride past your claim period is stupidity.

People come here to talk about CNC, not to do a hit-and-run on Trump. If you own absolutely nothing made in China, then so be it. And let's not get into who really was dealing with the Russians. In Trump's case with his products, he got manufacturers and distributors and actually delivered product. And it was cheaper for the consumer, because they were made overseas. Same thing with your sneakers, computer, phone, parts in your car... The stepper motors and drives you bought for your machine? China. Price steppers from Lin Engineering, who does have a plant in the US and overseas. Teknic is here in upstate NY though even their parts are sourced. I would argue that they're far superior to any WanTai motor. But you have to pay for it.

People chose a SkyFire over a Tormach because of what the SkyFire offered over the Tormach. And people took that risk, because the alternative was too costly. It's what happens with startups, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. You have the benefit of hindsight. We didn't, but we did understand the risks.

What happened to a lot of us is no different than if Defeng started a Kickstarter. We could have been SOL. The fact that I actually got something makes me thankful. I know others haven't been so fortunate. But this is the way it goes. Pricing and specs that many people wanted. Almost too good to be true. We had progress pics of our machines, nearly completed, before the "disappearance." It wasn't cause for alarm at first because there were some one, two week pauses in between pics.

[Roadstercycle]

Well guys just to let you know I just received word and many pictures of my machine. It is done and ready to ship this week. It's a VMC-2. Jan Bos is over there working with Defeng to get it boxed, loaded and shipped. It's been a long 90 days but there has been progress reports and 30 days over due plus 3 weeks shipping now. Jan also sent me video of them rigid tapping with it as they figured out the issue with the Adtech controller with the G84 tapping cycle. This is all awesome but until I have it in my hands all bets are off. I do trust Jan Bos as he has been working awfully hard to help Defeng get the machines out. There's another one ready to go for Phil in Australia.
From what I also understand Defeng just hired a new communications person to take care of emails that starts Monday so there may be some return emails finally coming from them. Defeng a couple months ago was really good at returning emails but it seems when more orders started coming in he was swamped with building. I am not defending him just stating what I found out. Anyway the saga of my machine is not over until I post arrival pictures and unveiling at my shop.

Yes, I took a chance on Defeng delivering, China could rip me off, Trump could put a 25% extra tax on it, Kim Jong-un could drop the bomb on my house in Los Angeles, Hollywood could Implode with sex scandals, and I could be driving an electric car with a 63 mile range (oops, actually I do), In comparison I feel pretty good about Defeng.

Also I did go look at another VMC-2 Skyfire in Pasadena, Ca a few weeks ago. It was a beautiful machine and the guy put it through it's paces for me. He was not a machinists and was still learning it but it worked great. So they are being delivered but at a snails pace. They are not Haas, and Tormach has had years to finally get things straightened out and have parts on hand and a customer service network. I really hope he makes it or Tormach gets a hint as to what we want and the pricing and steps up there game. Nothing like a little competition to get things moving.

OK, off my soap box.

Jack

[manofmanyhats]

Well guys just to let you know I just received word and many pictures of my machine. It is done and ready to ship this week. It's a VMC-2. Jan Bos is over there working with Defeng to get it boxed, loaded and shipped. It's been a long 90 days but there has been progress reports and 30 days over due plus 3 weeks shipping now. Jan also sent me video of them rigid tapping with it as they figured out the issue with the Adtech controller with the G84 tapping cycle. This is all awesome but until I have it in my hands all bets are off. I do trust Jan Bos as he has been working awfully hard to help Defeng get the machines out. There's another one ready to go for Phil in Australia.
From what I also understand Defeng just hired a new communications person to take care of emails that starts Monday so there may be some return emails finally coming from them. Defeng a couple months ago was really good at returning emails but it seems when more orders started coming in he was swamped with building. I am not defending him just stating what I found out. Anyway the saga of my machine is not over until I post arrival pictures and unveiling at my shop.

Yes, I took a chance on Defeng delivering, China could rip me off, Trump could put a 25% extra tax on it, Kim Jong-un could drop the bomb on my house in Los Angeles, Hollywood could Implode with sex scandals, and I could be driving an electric car with a 63 mile range (oops, actually I do), In comparison I feel pretty good about Defeng.

Also I did go look at another VMC-2 Skyfire in Pasadena, Ca a few weeks ago. It was a beautiful machine and the guy put it through it's paces for me. He was not a machinists and was still learning it but it worked great. So they are being delivered but at a snails pace. They are not Haas, and Tormach has had years to finally get things straightened out and have parts on hand and a customer service network. I really hope he makes it or Tormach gets a hint as to what we want and the pricing and steps up there game. Nothing like a little competition to get things moving.

OK, off my soap box.

Jack

I hope it works out well for you. Would you mind doing some runout tests like Blaat did on this page?

Also, are you from roadstercycle.com? If so, thanks for the fh20 kit. My vulcan's electrical system started behaving itself because of it.

[Roadstercycle]

Hi, Yes I am from Roadstercycle.com I do a lot of Vulcan upgrades along with everything else under the sun it seems. The FH020AA is a really great R/R. Thanks for the plug by the way :-)

OK, back to the Skyfire. Yes I'll do some runout test for sure. I'm hoping the SVM-2 is a little better than SMV-1. Also the top spindle nut run out does not count as that's a nut he's checking, it's not made perfectly round, he should of went farther in to the shiny shaft for runout. The Nut is only holding the belt gear on so it's really not a good place to check run out. But the tool holder run out is really unacceptable. I'll be bummed if mine is that bad and I can't fix it. So on a new note. I just got the bill of laden from Skyfire and all the legal ISF 10+2 customs paper work. The ship leaves the 14th of December and is suppose to arrive the 29th of Dec. in Los Angeles, Happy New Year I hope. 60 days over due.

Here's a couple traveling pics, It's even got my name on it, they almost make it seem real. We will see in 21 days. I hope it's not smoke and mirrors. If you notice there is a machine being built on both sides of mine which means that are working on orders.

[j3dprints]

What size servos are on the SVM-1 and SVM-2?

I want to fit my current RF-45 with such servos (they will be oversized I guess) so I can later move them over to a skyfire if I buy one.

[Norvil l]

[QUOTE=Goemon;2120774]

Interest on the loan.........oh dear, that is only a 30% tax return for a 100% outlay .....in OZ that is.

Anything you buy that is work related and gets tax deducted is still a burden when you have to pay out top dollar and only get back peanuts......better than nothing I suppose.

I suppose a loan is one way to finance a workshop.........loans are almost as bad as credit cards at 20% +.

I went down a different path when I set up in business in '95.......it's called an asset builder loan account......min take out is $20,000, then you only have to pay the interest each month on the amount you use if you want to, no other charges........same rate as your mortgage.....ours was 5% back then.

About that time I shredded my credit card as the rate was too high.

If you want to end it you just pay off the principle, but the beauty of it is you don't have to re-apply for a loan once it's set up and you have a surplus balance..............also you have to have property with enough equity in it......a careful funds management strategy is a must have or you'll end up owing your soul to the bank.

Hmmmm, Tormach is ALL Chinese??...... wow, the China syndrome is alive and kicking in USA despite what Trump has dreamed up on the platform of lies and lost promises last election day.

Perhaps attributes was a long word to use for the Skyfire, Haas or Tormach et all banana bunch,...... comparison maybe.............in my book if it ain't at least got linear rails, it ain't a CNC mill no matter what the size was and anything without balls crews or ISO 30 is a non starter too.......oh yeah, and a factory fitted enclosure is a must have.

I have ISO 20 on my mill.....it might be BT20 as it has a pull stud......but for anything bigger I'd go for BT30 (with the pull stud



Not to get political or anything but everything Trump makes is made in China and funded by Russia. He makes nothing in America....

IMO, something like a Tormach is a different experience to buying direct from Chinese vendors like Skyfire. Having an honest, trustworthy local business to deal with and having local help, a local guarantee and a level of QC that is.... um.... how to put this.... more culturally aligned with our expectations for the price, changes (almost) everything.


My main issues with buying direct from China are the frustrating customer service experience (or lack there of) and the large number of dishonest vendors combined with a lack of recourse when you get screwed-over. For the most part, quality meets expectations - i.e. It's low but consistent with the price.


It is far too common for Chinese vendors to do unethical things like sending broken goods and then expecting us to pay the $500 or $1000 in return shipping. Or worse, as people here found, taking people's money without being honest about their lack of ability to deliver. Dealing with Chinese vendors direct is often a nightmare.


I also had no response to the emails I sent to Skyfire asking for pricing. Sounds like I got lucky though. A vendor with a track record of steeling thousands of dollars from people here with no communications for 2 or 3 years is more than a red flag. Even if it only happened twice, nobody here should be trusting a company like that with thousands of dollars before seeing the goods.


I know what it's like with a start-up. Sometimes you accept people's money thinking you can deliver and then stuff happens. When it does though, you give back the money immediately and apologize. Keeping the money and going radio silent for two years is steeling. There is no acceptable excuse for that.


With that said, a little common sense is needed from our side when buying anything online.... At the very least, if you have to buy from Skyfire, pay through PayPal and raise a claim if they haven't delivered within a month. If it is going to take 6 months and you are ok with that, pay at the end, not the beginning..... this is common sense! You aren't a bank to fund their start-up costs... letting the money ride past your claim period is stupidity.

You sound like someone with a serious need for a "safe place". The Chinese probably read all your posts and wisely decided not to respond to you.