[ericks]

Thanks

[Zekyx]

Thank you for sharing this photo. Could you explain what each number is marked on my edit of your photo. I know most of them what they are for, but just to be sure (and to not make a fool of myself) I'd like to know what all these numbered items are and what they do.

Thanks!

[ericks]

Thank you for sharing this photo. Could you explain what each number is marked on my edit of your photo. I know most of them what they are for, but just to be sure (and to not make a fool of myself) I'd like to know what all these numbered items are and what they do.

Thanks!

No problem....
1) Terminals
2) Single phase circuit breaker
3) Noise filter
4) Relay.....i use this as the safety relay, ordered a second one cause my load is now too high due to the larger Kw spindle motor
5) Thermal switch.....this is to turn the panel fan on when the temperature becomes too high
6) Fused terminals
7) Auxiliary relays to turn on vacuum etc
8) Noise filter
9) Single phase circuit breakers

[asuratman]

Very very nice controller box. I use the same BOB, stepper driver, power supply, cheap and capable. But I don't use the rest of your component. Maybe I should install one for safety to protect over voltage, over current and heat.

[ericks]

Very very nice controller box. I use the same BOB, stepper driver, power supply, cheap and capable. But I don't use the rest of your component. Maybe I should install one for safety to protect over voltage, over current and heat.

Thank you. Protection devices are always a good idea

[ericks]

Received the guide ways and rails today. Packaged in a cardboard box saturated with water! Fortunately they packaged each component in plastic else it would have been a disaster. Rails are not all the exact ordered size. This supplier has just lost my further business...now i have to grind the rails down a couple of mill's to their correct size

The spindle motors should be delivered tomorrow, i will connect them up to the Sako drive and check it out

[Zekyx]

Thanks for taking your time to explain!
I have none of those in my setup , except a cheap chinese relay board. Machine working for two years now. What is the difference in having circuit breakers inside your panel compared to those installed in room wall panel already?

[ericks]

Thanks for taking your time to explain!
I have none of those in my setup , except a cheap chinese relay board. Machine working for two years now. What is the difference in having circuit breakers inside your panel compared to those installed in room wall panel already?

The circuit breaker in the distribution board protects the cable.....in my case it will be a 35 or 40 amp. The circuit breakers and/or fuses inside the control panel protects individual components and cabling. For example i can expect around 24 A drawn by my VFD if the spindle motor runs at full load....so i will be protecting my VFD with a 20 A breaker, cause i don't expect it to ever reach 24 A. I will do the same for the, power supplies, fan, noise filters etc. This is one reason why people end up with damaged VFD's.....they have no protection against sudden overcurrent or external short circuit. Spending $3 to protect device cabling is not a big deal...and the electrical code requires it anyway

[mactec54]

No problem....
1) Terminals
2) Single phase circuit breaker
3) Noise filter
4) Relay.....i use this as the safety relay, ordered a second one cause my load is now too high due to the larger Kw spindle motor
5) Thermal switch.....this is to turn the panel fan on when the temperature becomes too high
6) Fused terminals
7) Auxiliary relays to turn on vacuum etc
8) Noise filter
9) Single phase circuit breakers

Number 4 your Safety Rely should not turn the main supply power to the VFD Drive off, if you hit an Estop and your spindle is at ( max RPM ) you will damage your spindle, sometimes the VFD also, you should only turn off the ON/Off Reset from the low voltage Terminals, and you can use the VFD Drive built in Relays to do this for your safety circuit

The main Power supply can be in the safety circuit that turns off the VFD if you are using low RPM motors ( regular Ac Motors ) this is not a good idea with these high Speed Spindles

[ericks]

Number 4 your Safety Rely should not turn the main supply power to the VFD Drive off, if you hit an Estop and your spindle is at ( max RPM ) you will damage your spindle, sometimes the VFD also, you should only turn off the ON/Off Reset from the low voltage Terminals, and you can use the VFD Drive built in Relays to do this for your safety circuit

The main Power supply can be in the safety circuit that turns off the VFD if you are using low RPM motors ( regular Ac Motors ) this is not a good idea with these high Speed Spindles

I prefer having the drive stop the motor fast in an emergency.....so that is the first part of the emergency stop, the relay will be the second(back up) stop. Reason i am doing this is because this drive caused issues during testing. It accelerated past it's maximum speed a few times when i stopped it. So powering down the drive will only happen when all else fails

[mactec54]

I prefer having the drive stop the motor fast in an emergency.....so that is the first part of the emergency stop, the relay will be the second(back up) stop. Reason i am doing this is because this drive caused issues during testing. It accelerated past it's maximum speed a few times when i stopped it. So powering down the drive will only happen when all else fails

It will not stop any quicker with the main power supply turned Off, than using the VFD's fault circuit

This is what happened to a Zone member when he did what you are planning to do

[skrubol]

It will not stop any quicker with the main power supply turned Off, than using the VFD's fault circuit

Reason i am doing this is because this drive caused issues during testing. It accelerated past it's maximum speed a few times when i stopped it. So powering down the drive will only happen when all else fails

Seems like removing power from the drive would be the only option..
Also, isn't it required by some codes to remove power on E-stop? I think I read that using a time-delay relay is permissible when damage can happen due to removing power immediately, but power must always be removed from the drive.

[ericks]

Thanks for all the info/advise guys, i really appreciate it. I will do some tests and report back....in case someone finds the results helpful

[ericks]

It will not stop any quicker with the main power supply turned Off, than using the VFD's fault circuit

This is what happened to a Zone member when he did what you are planning to do

Read my post, i never said it will stop quicker with the power supply turned off. I said that i prefer the drive to stop the motor fast (normal dec stop). I said the power down is only if all else fails

[ericks]

Not much progress on the build. I have been waiting and still waiting for parts, the motors did not arrive..apparently some delay at the courier. My old 6040 got a bit of a service cause i will most likely use it to machine all the aluminium parts. It's also getting a little upgrade, i was using the 5 V from the pc to power the bob and i did not have any limits etc. connected so the 12-24 V was unconnected. Busy making a couple of basic regulator boards 24-12 V and 24 - 5 V. Hopefully the filter components i added will stop noise from the 24 V motor psu. I could have made a dual output board etc but this should be fine.
The TRACOPOWER switching regulators that i use are very good.

[mactec54]

Seems like removing power from the drive would be the only option..
Also, isn't it required by some codes to remove power on E-stop? I think I read that using a time-delay relay is permissible when damage can happen due to removing power immediately, but power must always be removed from the drive.

No it is not the only option

Yes this is a code requirement in most countries, these codes where written before there where these high speed spindles, so in reality it is not possible to do this without doing damage the High Speed Spindles which have to dump the back EMF Voltage so when power is removed from the VFD Drive it then has no control of the Back EMF Voltage which can be very damaging to the Drive or Spindle, if the VFD Drives are over rated ( 1/3 minimum ) for the Spindle motor being used this usually only affects the Spindle

So a normal stop is required before total lights out, removing main power does not stop these Spindles they actually will take longer to stop spinning with the main power removed as they will coast to a stop instead of a powered down stop under control of the VFD Drive, all VFD Drives have a built in Safety Circuit that should be used in the EStop Circuit, when using this Safety Circuit the VFD will power down the Spindle correctly, most VFD Drive Manufacturer's will recommend that it be done this way before a complete disconnect of the Drive power

Don't get this misconstrued Damage can happen with any of these high RPM spindles, any regular low RPM Ac motor this does not seem to have any affected when main power is removed

[ericks]

I understand what you are saying, but you have to have a safeguard against drive failure where it doesn't ramp down on stop. This is what i am doing, in an emergency i will give a stop signal.....after a set time i will drop the power to the drive. As i haven't run this drive with the spindle i can't say now what this time will be. At the moment i don't fully trust this drive due to the problems i had with it.

[skrubol]

so in reality it is not possible to do this without doing damage the High Speed Spindles which have to dump the back EMF Voltage so when power is removed from the VFD Drive it then has no control of the Back EMF Voltage which can be very damaging to the Drive or Spindle, if the VFD Drives are over rated ( 1/3 minimum ) for the Spindle motor being used this usually only affects the Spindle

So a normal stop is required before total lights out, removing main power does not stop these Spindles they actually will take longer to stop spinning with the main power removed as they will coast to a stop instead of a powered down stop under control of the VFD Drive, all VFD Drives have a built in Safety Circuit that should be used in the EStop Circuit, when using this Safety Circuit the VFD will power down the Spindle correctly, most VFD Drive Manufacturer's will recommend that it be done this way before a complete disconnect of the Drive power

Some drives have separate power for the brain and the switching (bus.) If they do, the E-stop should only disconnect the bus power. For others, isn't the brain powered by bus power, or do they have a separate rectifier for the brain and for the DC bus? If they've only got one rectifier, then the brain should be powered as long as the motor is being braked (and therefore charging the bus with its back emf.)

[LeeWay]

You could have a secondary load on the line like a train horn or air raid siren.

[ericks]

Only a bit done on the new build, feet brackets attached and the frame flipped over. The spindle motors are stuck at customs, no one can give me a reason why...
At least the 6040 is back up and running with the power supply mod, everything seems to be working fine.