[Dan B]

An indexer generally has fixed increments for their moves and in many cases its triggered by an M code.

I suppose that would be the difference. Walt must be referring to that. I have seen trunnions that index every 5 degrees, but for doing holes, that's pretty useless.

The other term of 5 axis indexed is also refered to as 2+3. This means 2 axis pointioning (tilt) of the face to be machined and then 3 axis surface machining. This is how most people use their 5 axis machines.

Or 3+2.

The need for full 5X should be minimal, unless you make impellers or turbine blades a lot.

Dan

[[email protected]]

The machine tool company I worked for made two models of rotary axies. One model was a milicheck or positioning table and the other was a contouring table.
The milacheck rotary axis was capable of moving in one degree increments or one half degree increments if that was the milacheck ring you ordered.
Whereas the contouring model had no clamping mechanism other than a very snug fit on the rotary drive gear. Most of our drive gears were manufactured by Cone Drive. (Rotary Drive Gears) The contouring rotary axis could be positioned to any position you needed with in .001 degree and could be held there while the hole was drilled.
If you wanted finer adjustment that .001 degree, then you would have to order that feature. Then you could drill that hole at the correct angle.
Must rest my head.
Regards Walt...

[BobWarfield]

I would think that 5-axis indexed or positional (or 3+2 if you want to call it that) would also have surface finish issues for some jobs compared to 5-axis continuous. Isn't stopping to re-index introducing some cutter dwell at that point?

It shouldn't affect all jobs, but it goes to the issue of whether 5-axis indexed does everything 5-axis continous does only slower.

BTW, came across a really cool design for a 5-axis head that uses ballscrews and linear slides instead of all the rotary motion:



The head pivots as the slides move the legs of the tripod in and out. I wondered about dwell in this case because supposedly one of the advantages of this head is feeds can be just as fast as the linear axes since it uses the same ballscrew and linear slide technology. This was touted as reducing dwell effects during continuous cutting.

The head is made by a German company called DS Technologie.

Best,

BW

[JerryFlyGuy]

I would think that 5-axis indexed or positional (or 3+2 if you want to call it that) would also have surface finish issues for some jobs compared to 5-axis continuous. Isn't stopping to re-index introducing some cutter dwell at that point?


BW

Not really.. since all the 3+2's that I know of actually retract from the cut to index the head then come back to the part to continue cutting. To move an index while on the part is not possible as it would create a gouge. The 2 axis head [or trunion] typically moves at a rapid speed to the new index position, its not a cordinated move.

Jerry

[slpd]

Does anyone know much about catia for a 5 axis machine??

[big_mak]

Does anyone know much about catia for a 5 axis machine??

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[slpd]

big_mak

More info please such as any incompatibilities with other file types

What type of code is used for 5 axis

[big_mak]

Five axis code can be normal gcode, just with "A" "B" or "C" values corresponding to the appropriate axis. If your machine has Heidenhain, or a Siemans control, then the machine may speak a totally different language.

Catia I believe has translators for almost any file type such as iges, sat, step, even stl. from my experiences stl's can be a waste of time. Catia has pretty much taken over UGS as the standard CAD/CAM software in the Aerospace Industry. I believe that Boeing has a mandate for the tier 1 suppliers for the new 787, that if they want to make parts for this plane, they will use Catia. All the tolerance information is in the electronic model, supposedly removing the need for paper drawings. I'm sure most shops will have to generate in process inspection sketches and such to aid the boys on the floor.

Remember that Catia is a MONSTER of a program. There are modules for CAD, Electrical engineering, a multitude of CAM Modules Kinematics, and more.

It's simliar to MS Excel, in that no one person can really have the vast knowledge to use every single module that they have to offer.

I believe that with Catia you will need another piece of software to post your toolpath info to G-Code.

I hope this explains any of your questions. I believe that the full CAD with the full 5 axis package is in the neighborhood of 60K. Enough to scare off pretty much all but the tier one companies.

[[email protected]]

I have reread some of the posts. I don't remember seeing a rotary axis with more that 3 decimal places to the right side of the decimal point. I would think, the mechanical engineering to move and hold anything closer than 3 decimal places on a rotary axis would be extreme. I can see it on linear axies but on a rotary axis it would be tough. I'm talking inches.
I think any engineer that would spec an angle to 4 decimal places is straining everyone's capabilities.
Regards Walt..

[RICHARD ZASTROW]

I worked for Siemens Power Div. where we manufactured large gas turbines for electric power generation. We worked with A S Thomas Inc. and Hermle to develop the Hermle 5-axis milling machine using A S Thomas 5-axis programming software and milling cutters to machine turbine blades. At that time, 1993, Thomas was the only CAM software that could keep almost any shape cutters truly normal to the work surface. They now have 6-axis software, do consulting and have their own manufacturing facilities. A S Thomas Inc. is located in Massachusets.

[slpd]

big_mak

Thanks for the info its very much appreciated.

Does anyone know anything about the cad modules in catia

[CNCRim]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...q=5-axis&hl=en

[CNCRim]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...q=5-axis&hl=en

[big_mak]

slpd,

can't say that I know too much about the cad modules themselves, but I believe that it is a full parametetric modeling system. If you go to the Dassault sytems page, you will see that they also develope solidworks a similar product, only not as powerful, and not as much $$$$$

[slpd]

big_mak

I will have go to there page thanks

[Chris Booth]

Oops! Didn't see the question had already been extensively answered!

[cadcam]

Could you describe a part that could not be done with an indexed CAM package.

I would say that Head Porting can not be done by indexing or as i call it 3+2.

I am sorry but I am putting on the list of Cams Mastercam X2 as it has a ton of new features and allot of companys out here in Cali are using it.

the ones that were listed are barly seen out here.
Mastercam then Catia and UG are the ones I see here.

[dave from kiev]

Hi. I love this subject. I worked for a aircraft tool company and we used tebis v3.3. The advantage for us was when we surfaced a tool (usually 10-20 feet in length 8-12 ft wide) we were able to use a facemill rather than a ballnose em. Imagine a plane fusalage in half needing a +-.005 surface with a 32 micro. This company continues to make a fortune doing this despite their sizeable investment. That is just one of many situations a continuous 5-axis is advantageous.

Also, Catia is a great software but tebis is by far the easiest (once you understand what is needed)to use. Although it costs 80,000 per seat.

[Tony the Ferret]

Every body is talking about the merrits of 3+2 over CM 5Axis with the tool normal to the surface. Lets stop. and think about the actual geometry of a tool When the spindle is running at 15,000 or 25,000 RPM and you are taking whisker cuts of 0.02" (or 0.5mm) with a 3/8" or 10mm ball nose cutter what is the surface speed at the cutter centre------ ZILCH, ZERO, STATIONARY. Answer add some LEAD to the tool and then the perifery of the tool comes back into action. But if you are machining in raster along the X axis if you put a 10deg lead on the spindle, in one direction the cut is being pulled, and yet when the toopath changes direction it will be in a push situation.. same as pulling or pushing a rope along the floor. this is true in 3, 3+2, 4 or full 5 axis machining.
WorkNC 5 Axis has the ability to change lead angle with the direction of travel. In fact there are so many options for changing the cutting conditions, i have not encountered a situation we could not handle. All with FULL holder checking stock checking and machine aviodance as standard.
Regarding cutting your wing structure with a flat cutter, WorkNC handles this with ease but less configuration than tebbis needs. it is a good package, but one quote i heard from a user "if i want to get from here to there, i can choose 500 different routes". not exactly good for ease of use and speed of manufacture
www.foregonesolutions.co.uk

[JerryFlyGuy]

For the record, SolidCAM will lead and lag the tool as required. I don't own a copy but I've seen it in action.

Jerry