[Ntl]

Sounds like it would work, I still think mounting the rails to a piece of flat bar that you have some either sloted or oversized holes that is mounted to the top of the frame tube would be a better option. Wouldn't be much more much more work since the way you want to do it you are drilling two holes anyway for the through hole and I guarantee you will have a tough time getting the top hole to line up with the bottom hole since the drill bit will walk on you since you will be drilling it by hand. If you use a piece of flatbar you can drill it with a drill press and tap it off the machine, also by making the holes that you will bolt to the top of the square tube oversized/sloted if you have some tapped holes on the tube a little bit off you will have plenty of adjustment with the rails mounted to the flat bar to still get the rails parallel to one another. Hopefully this makes sense, if not I can draw something up for you when I get some time.

I'm thinking about doing the same thing but also adding set screws so I can level the rails with out the need for shiming, with doing it this way you can get it parallel and level in x and z with out the need for shiming material just a hex key wrench. I'm confident it will be better than what we currently have going on with these machines lol. Look at the glass as being half full and that anything you do will be a improvement over it's current state, even using it as a engine stand if you choose to.

[Erik F]

Sounds like it would work, I still think mounting the rails to a piece of flat bar that you have some either sloted or oversized holes that is mounted to the top of the frame tube would be a better option. Wouldn't be much more much more work since the way you want to do it you are drilling two holes anyway for the through hole and I guarantee you will have a tough time getting the top hole to line up with the bottom hole since the drill bit will walk on you since you will be drilling it by hand. If you use a piece of flatbar you can drill it with a drill press and tap it off the machine, also by making the holes that you will bolt to the top of the square tube oversized/sloted if you have some tapped holes on the tube a little bit off you will have plenty of adjustment with the rails mounted to the flat bar to still get the rails parallel to one another. Hopefully this makes sense, if not I can draw something up for you when I get some time.

I'm thinking about doing the same thing but also adding set screws so I can level the rails with out the need for shiming, with doing it this way you can get it parallel and level in x and z with out the need for shiming material just a hex key wrench. I'm confident it will be better than what we currently have going on with these machines lol. Look at the glass as being half full and that anything you do will be a improvement over it's current state, even using it as a engine stand if you choose to.

I get exactly what you are saying and it does make more sense and is a better long term solution. The leveling screws are a good idea. Would you put them on both sides of the rail or just one side? I am picturing on both? This would give you total stand off in areas that are real out of wack.

[Ntl]

I get exactly what you are saying and it does make more sense and is a better long term solution. The leveling screws are a good idea. Would you put them on both sides of the rail or just one side? I am picturing on both? This would give you total stand off in areas that are real out of wack.

Yes I would put them on both sides, and I was thinking about the same potential problem of have some small gap's.

My thoughts are the square tube is hollow anyway so I'm thinking that if the flat bar is 0.375" thick, thicker than the machine tube and you have enough bolt's attaching it to the tube and mount the set screws close to the linear rail that it wouldn't be able to flex and would be as rigid or even more rigid than what is currently going on.

Also if you found once mounted and leveled that there was a big gap you could always try to inject some epoxy under the flat bar, or use some slow setting epoxy and lay it down prior to installing the flat bar. I personally don't like the epoxy idea since it would be a mess and have potential for messing everything up if it set up to fast or you didn't get it leveled and it set up.

To me it would have to be pumped in after everything was perfect and you knew nothing needed further adjustments, I haven't looked for any material that could maybe be used and I also don't know how much adjustment will be needed and how much of a gap you will have.

So it's kinda something that I would have to to try and see if there would be any issues. It seems like it would work but obviously I haven't done it yet so I'm not 100% sure since I haven't tried it yet.

Hopefully it makes sense and if it doesn't like I said before I can do a drawing when I get some free time.

[GME]

Yes I would put them on both sides, and I was thinking about the same potential problem of have some small gap's.

My thoughts are the square tube is hollow anyway so I'm thinking that if the flat bar is 0.375" thick, thicker than the machine tube and you have enough bolt's attaching it to the tube and mount the set screws close to the linear rail that it wouldn't be able to flex and would be as rigid or even more rigid than what is currently going on.

Also if you found once mounted and leveled that there was a big gap you could always try to inject some epoxy under the flat bar, or use some slow setting epoxy and lay it down prior to installing the flat bar. I personally don't like the epoxy idea since it would be a mess and have potential for messing everything up if it set up to fast or you didn't get it leveled and it set up.

To me it would have to be pumped in after everything was perfect and you knew nothing needed further adjustments, I haven't looked for any material that could maybe be used and I also don't know how much adjustment will be needed and how much of a gap you will have.

So it's kinda something that I would have to to try and see if there would be any issues. It seems like it would work but obviously I haven't done it yet so I'm not 100% sure since I haven't tried it yet.

Hopefully it makes sense and if it doesn't like I said before I can do a drawing when I get some free time.

Dan, it looks like we are on the same general track. You and I were independently working on a similar reply.

Look up machine setting epoxy grout. It is used to level heavy machinery. Probably not available in small quantities, though. That's why something like West System epoxy with a filler came to mind.

As far as injecting is concerned, it could be done in sections. I've seen some instructions for injecting, but cannot find them right now. It just amounts to taping up the edges and leaving some openings at the top of the edges for injecting. Fortunately, since the set screws are pulling the laboring oar for support, a less than perfect job would probably still be adequate. I'd sure want to do a lot of practicing with material off the machine before trying for real

Gary

[GME]

I get exactly what you are saying and it does make more sense and is a better long term solution. The leveling screws are a good idea. Would you put them on both sides of the rail or just one side? I am picturing on both? This would give you total stand off in areas that are real out of wack.

You would want to use plates with leveling screws on both sides. I believe that would be an easier solution than trying to make one side match the unmodified other side. Also, you have the dishing in the frame tubing to deal with. Leveling plates on both sides would take care of the dishing issue on both sides.

I'd go with what's called a "dog point" set screw for leveling. It has a flat bottom, which won't dig in over time. I've also commented before about using a filler under the plates to avoid deflection. Once the rails are where you want them, you inject the specialized epoxy under the plates. To make the plates removable, you can coat the screws and bottom side of the plate with a release agent. It would be a fussy process. You would probably want to use some sort of machine leveling epoxy grout. You might also be able to make up a suitable epoxy with something like a West System product and fillers, which would probably be a whole lot cheaper (as if any epoxy is cheap ). I'd do a lot of experimenting to make sure I could confidently pull it off.

Keep in mind that this solution is nothing like trying to level the frame with epoxy. From what I can tell, few, if any, have succeeded in the effort. Just looking at the way the epoxy goes down looks like a recipe for failure. I briefly considered it for the Saturn I sent back, but pretty quickly discarded it. I question the wisdom of trying to use epoxy as a mounting surface for linear rails in any event. I would worry that over time the epoxy might distort. With the above-proposed method, the set screws are doing the heavy lifting. The epoxy is only used in a 'supporting role', so to speak.

One other thing to think about. when using set screw for leveling and fixing screws to hold everything in place. If the fixing screws aren't tight enough, the plate will move. If too tight, the plate can distort (unless you were to use for set screws at each fixing screw). Striking the right balance could be a tricky proposition. Hopefully, an epoxy filler would mitigate or eliminate the potential problem.

Gary