[RufusToad]

Yep I will definitely be needing well documented instructions to hook this up I tossed out a $650 offer on that spindle and help settled for 675 so I think I did ok. I have struggled finding a VFD up to 10hp on a 220 single phase input. Both that you listed are 3ph input and will not work for me although I wish I could use it.
I am going to give that HY a shot just to get rolling first then I will start looking for something better.
Do you by chance control RPM with Mach software or by the VDF its self?

[dazp1976]

Y I have struggled finding a VFD up to 10hp on a 220 single phase input.

And it's highly probable that you never will find one.

[mactec54]

Yep I will definitely be needing well documented instructions to hook this up I tossed out a $650 offer on that spindle and help settled for 675 so I think I did ok. I have struggled finding a VFD up to 10hp on a 220 single phase input. Both that you listed are 3ph input and will not work for me although I wish I could use it.
I am going to give that HY a shot just to get rolling first then I will start looking for something better.
Do you by chance control RPM with Mach software or by the VDF its self?

3 Phase VFD Drives run on Single Phase, all VFD Drives are made the same even the single Phase, the VFD Drive needs an input amp rating 2 times the output requirement, so if your motor is say 10A the VFD Drive must have an input rating of 20 plus Amps or it will not survive

So, what is the name plate rated Amps for your spindle and voltage???

[RufusToad]

3 Phase VFD Drives run on Single Phase, all VFD Drives are made the same even the single Phase, the VFD Drive needs an input amp rating 2 times the output requirement, so if your motor is say 10A the VFD Drive must have an input rating of 20 plus Amps or it will not survive

So, what is the name plate rated Amps for your spindle and voltage???

Well I am going to assume that the plate means input220/380ouput? and the A on the plate is 19.2/11.3 so does that mean 19.2 @220v and 11.3 @ 380v??.
Isn't part of the function of these VFD's to convert single phase into 3 phase or am I missing something?? If it does convert this then is HP lost in the spindle power?
Just starting to learn about these motors and drives so did I miss on this? I purchased a kinda cheapy Huanyang VFD to get me started that is a 34a. I just want to get this hooked up and running correctly before I purchase an expensive VFD which I dont mind doing just a bit nervous getting started. Right now I am running a 2.5hp regular router that is using the SuperPID and I am not having good luck with it. I had all intentions of purchasing the spindle kit off of AVID CNC but their product support is terrible. I purchased everything I have now for 1/2 the cost and double the power so FINGERS CROSSED

[mactec54]

Well I am going to assume that the plate means input220/380ouput? and the A on the plate is 19.2/11.3 so does that mean 19.2 @220v and 11.3 @ 380v??.
Isn't part of the function of these VFD's to convert single phase into 3 phase or am I missing something?? If it does convert this then is HP lost in the spindle power?
Just starting to learn about these motors and drives so did I miss on this? I purchased a kinda cheapy Huanyang VFD to get me started that is a 34a. I just want to get this hooked up and running correctly before I purchase an expensive VFD which I dont mind doing just a bit nervous getting started. Right now I am running a 2.5hp regular router that is using the SuperPID and I am not having good luck with it. I had all intentions of purchasing the spindle kit off of AVID CNC but their product support is terrible. I purchased everything I have now for 1/2 the cost and double the power so FINGERS CROSSED

No, the VFD Drive is not converting the single-phase Ac power input into Ac 3 phase output. the output is PWM (voltage and current) it is not a sin wave form as the input is, if it was the same then it would be a phase converter, the name tells you what it is VFD Variable frequency Drive

That's not possible 220v input will never have a 380v output, what goes in is what you get out. check your spindle is for 220v or can be wired for 220v, if it is 380v then you have a problem.

Yes 220v 19.2A / 380v 11.3A

Is Hp lost, sure it is, (it's called derating) that is why it is pointless to buy a big Hp spindle unless you have 3Ph power to run it.

If you only had a 2.5Hp router then why did you go with a ridiculously overpowered spindle for your machine.

Do you have a 40A / 50A 240v supply to drive the new spindle?

[RufusToad]

No, the VFD Drive is not converting the single-phase Ac power input into Ac 3 phase output. the output is PWM (voltage and current) it is not a sin wave form as the input is, if it was the same then it would be a phase converter, the name tells you what it is VFD Variable frequency Drive

That's not possible 220v input will never have a 380v output, what goes in is what you get out. check your spindle is for 220v or can be wired for 220v, if it is 380v then you have a problem.

Yes 220v 19.2A / 380v 11.3A

Is Hp lost, sure it is, (it's called derating) that is why it is pointless to buy a big Hp spindle unless you have 3Ph power to run it.

If you only had a 2.5Hp router then why did you go with a ridiculously overpowered spindle for your machine.

Do you have a 40A / 50A 240v supply to drive the new spindle?

Hi Mactec54,
I will try and answer some of the questions the best I can and you might see my confusion. I have had some issues with the router I have now which include me blowing out the Triac on the SuperPID board a few times. I was going to order a new SuperPID except it is made in Australia and right now its impossible to get this board plus I wanted to upgrade anyway so now is the time. A friend has the same AVID CNC table as I and he has an UGRA 3hp high torque spindle with a Delta VFD and I wanted to match it so we would have parts etc. if needed. I bought the entire set up from UGRA but 14 weeks have gone by and still zero product so I had to cancel my order and move on hence this post being started. After I canceled that order I went to AVID to purchase their 4hp Hiteco VFD plug and play kit except their sales support is absolutely terrible so I decided to go elsewhere. I am really wanting to cut aluminum so getting a higher HP spindle is very appealing to me and Geomon was kind enough to give me a few pointers. He pointed me to a brand new 7.5hp PDS spindle on ebay for $650 (normally $2500) and I jumped on it and then I bought a cheap Huanyang VFD just to start out with because this is a learning process for me right now and I know I can do damage to the VFD if not careful. When I get everything ready and set I will upgrade the VFD.

Yes I have more than enough power I can use.

So I emailed the support group for UGRA spindles to get a bit of information and this is one of my questions: I AM LOOKING FOR A SINGLE PHASE SPINDLE IN THE 3-4HP RANGE. IN THE DESCRIPTIONS OF THE VFD spindles it looks like they all say 220/380 3phase spindles. What am I missing?
His answer was: You are missing the VFD. "The VFD converts a single phase input into a three phase output". All spindles are three phase motors. Up to 2.2kW VFD can work on a single phase 220V, there are expensive 3.7 kW single phase input VFDs. All spindles above require three phase power.

This is why I am a little confused because he flat out suggests the VFD converts the single phase in into three phase out. I do know this guy sets up/configures all the spindles to the VFD's IF you buy the entire package from them so I figured he knew what he was talking about.


I know I am a little green on the VFD's but I will catch up. I am just starting to dip my toe in this lake and I am looking forward to learning as much as I can and I appreciate everyone's input.
Kind of a long winded answer but I hope you understand I have some confusion as to what the VFD actually does but what Goemon just posted below is starting to make sense. I assumed it converted to a 3ph and PWM'ed that but I think its just dropping the L3 leg input and picking back up out. I suppose that's why the derate?? Think I am starting to understand

[mactec54]

Hi Mactec54,
I will try and answer some of the questions the best I can and you might see my confusion. I have had some issues with the router I have now which include me blowing out the Triac on the SuperPID board a few times. I was going to order a new SuperPID except it is made in Australia and right now its impossible to get this board plus I wanted to upgrade anyway so now is the time. A friend has the same AVID CNC table as I and he has an UGRA 3hp high torque spindle with a Delta VFD and I wanted to match it so we would have parts etc. if needed. I bought the entire set up from UGRA but 14 weeks have gone by and still zero product so I had to cancel my order and move on hence this post being started. After I canceled that order I went to AVID to purchase their 4hp Hiteco VFD plug and play kit except their sales support is absolutely terrible so I decided to go elsewhere. I am really wanting to cut aluminum so getting a higher HP spindle is very appealing to me and Geomon was kind enough to give me a few pointers. He pointed me to a brand new 7.5hp PDS spindle on ebay for $650 (normally $2500) and I jumped on it and then I bought a cheap Huanyang VFD just to start out with because this is a learning process for me right now and I know I can do damage to the VFD if not careful. When I get everything ready and set I will upgrade the VFD.

Yes I have more than enough power I can use.

So I emailed the support group for UGRA spindles to get a bit of information and this is one of my questions: I AM LOOKING FOR A SINGLE PHASE SPINDLE IN THE 3-4HP RANGE. IN THE DESCRIPTIONS OF THE VFD spindles it looks like they all say 220/380 3phase spindles. What am I missing?
His answer was: You are missing the VFD. "The VFD converts a single phase input into a three phase output". All spindles are three phase motors. Up to 2.2kW VFD can work on a single phase 220V, there are expensive 3.7 kW single phase input VFDs. All spindles above require three phase power.

This is why I am a little confused because he flat out suggests the VFD converts the single phase in into three phase out. I do know this guy sets up/configures all the spindles to the VFD's IF you buy the entire package from them so I figured he knew what he was talking about.


I know I am a little green on the VFD's but I will catch up. I am just starting to dip my toe in this lake and I am looking forward to learning as much as I can and I appreciate everyone's input.
Kind of a long winded answer but I hope you understand I have some confusion as to what the VFD actually does but what Goemon just posted below is starting to make sense. I assumed it converted to a 3ph and PWM'ed that but I think its just dropping the L3 leg input and picking back up out. I suppose that's why the derate?? Think I am starting to understand

The information you are being told or looking at, is not totally correct and is more confusing than of any use to anyone.

I'm not going to answer everything, because it would not make any difference to the outcome, Geomon has led you up the garden Parth, as he has his own ideas with zero tech to help someone like you, he has done one install and had lots of problems with his install, so is not someone that you should take any notice of.

[Goemon]

Well I am going to assume that the plate means input220/380ouput? and the A on the plate is 19.2/11.3 so does that mean 19.2 @220v and 11.3 @ 380v??.
Isn't part of the function of these VFD's to convert single phase into 3 phase or am I missing something?? If it does convert this then is HP lost in the spindle power?
Just starting to learn about these motors and drives so did I miss on this? I purchased a kinda cheapy Huanyang VFD to get me started that is a 34a. I just want to get this hooked up and running correctly before I purchase an expensive VFD which I dont mind doing just a bit nervous getting started. Right now I am running a 2.5hp regular router that is using the SuperPID and I am not having good luck with it. I had all intentions of purchasing the spindle kit off of AVID CNC but their product support is terrible. I purchased everything I have now for 1/2 the cost and double the power so FINGERS CROSSED

Our spindles can be run on either 220v or 380v. If you look on the inside of the junction box (where you connect wires to the spindle), you'll see six screw terminals with some of them joined by copper connectors. They are connected one way for 220v and another if 380v is needed.

There should be a diagram on back of the cover showing you which it is wired for currently. If it's wired for 380v you need to change it to the 220v configuration. I can send you a pic of mine if you want to confirm how it should look.

The 19.2amp 220v is the one to go off (once it's configured for 220v).

Don't let anyone confuse you on the technical jargon. Almost everyone in the diy space uses their VFD to run a 3ph spindle from a single phase power source. Almost nobody in America has 3ph power at home.

The only practical difference for you is that the VFD needs to draw in more 1 phase amps to output the correct 3ph amps than it would if the power source was 3ph. So you "derate" the vfd.

In practical terms this just means you buy a larger VFD as they have components that can handle the larger number of amps on the input side.

The output rating of the VFD is actually less important for derating than the input rating. The problem is that a lot of VFD manufacturers don't advertise this number (which is why you see the generic "just double it" advice).

Some manufacturers do put the input rating on the label which is way more helpful for diy users . Like this 11kw Delta VFD is rated for 49a output but 58a input:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/29350608516...Bk9SR-LvlMy0Xw

If a manufacturer was specifically making a 5.5kw VFD to run a 5.5kw spindle from 1ph power, the rated output amps should be similar to a regular 5.5kw 3ph VFD but the rated input amps would be considerably higher.

E.g. Compare this 15hp /11kw 240v single phase Invertek VFD rated 45a (for $3700):

https://www.ebay.com/itm/23376434465...Bk9SR8Sahc60Xw

To this 15hp 240v 3ph Invertek VFD rated 46a ($1800):

https://www.ebay.com/itm/23376815068...3ABFBMyPWnzrRf

I've been using an HY GT VFD to run the same 5.6kw PDS motor for over 2 years now. That's at least 18 months longer than I expected it to last but it's still going strong.

The only problems I've had have been from user error.

The input rating on the VFD plate just states "220v single phase +/- 20%". So... there's some "trust" involved....

I've been told it's rated for between 40a and 49a on the input side (depending on who I ask) but I've never had any confidence in these "answers".

Anyway, let me know if you need the manual for your spindle. Aside from the electric fan everything else should be the same. I got my spindle direct from PDS America and they sent the manual on a USB drive in digital only so you may not get it from the ebay seller.

[Goemon]

Almost all VFDs are 3ph input even if they advertise 1ph in (or 1ph or 3ph in). That includes those HY VFDs.

Almost any 220v 3ph VFD can be run on 1ph 240v. That includes the ones I sent you links for.

Most in the diy crowd (myself included) use a VFD as a phase converter.

What matters is if the VFD is large enough to handle the incoming and outgoing amps. That's why people derate a 3 phase vfd when running it off 1 phase.

To output the 20a 3ph your spindle needs from a 1ph source the VFD will have have to draw 34a. That's why the VFD rating has to be larger than the spindle.

If you had 3 phase power you could use a 5.5kw vfd for a 5.5kw spindle.

The VFDs I sent you links for are both 15hp / 11kw 3ph so you can definitely use them to run a 7.5hp spindle from a 240v 1ph outlet.

$675 is a fantastic deal on a brand new 7.5hp ADEP 90. It's a $1600 discount over the current retail price.

Next you'll need 12awg 4 wire shielded flexible cable to connect the VFD to your spindle.

It looks like yours is a newer model than mine but if the connections are all the same size you'll need an M20 x 1.5 cable gland too.

I just bought one of these for myself and it's the only one I've found to date that actually fits the cable:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/401907458033

[mactec54]

Almost all VFDs are 3ph input even if they advertise 1ph in (or 1ph or 3ph in). That includes those HY VFDs.

Almost any 220v 3ph VFD can be run on 1ph 240v. That includes the ones I sent you links for.

Most in the diy crowd (myself included) use a VFD as a phase converter.

What matters is if the VFD is large enough to handle the incoming and outgoing amps. That's why people derate a 3 phase vfd when running it off 1 phase.

To output the 20a 3ph your spindle needs from a 1ph source the VFD will have have to draw 34a. That's why the VFD rating has to be larger than the spindle.

If you had 3 phase power you could use a 5.5kw vfd for a 5.5kw spindle.

The VFDs I sent you links for are both 15hp / 11kw 3ph so you can definitely use them to run a 7.5hp spindle from a 240v 1ph outlet.

$675 is a fantastic deal on a brand new 7.5hp ADEP 90. It's a $1600 discount over the current retail price.

Next you'll need 12awg 4 wire shielded flexible cable to connect the VFD to your spindle.

It looks like yours is a newer model than mine but if the connections are all the same size you'll need an M20 x 1.5 cable gland too.

I just bought one of these for myself and it's the only one I've found to date that actually fits the cable:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/401907458033

You can't use a VFD Drive as a phase converter, it does not output a sin wave, so can't be used for anything other than powering an AC 3 phase motor

[Goemon]

You can't use a VFD Drive as a phase converter, it does not output a sin wave, so can't be used for anything other than powering an AC 3 phase motor

I know... But we're talking about VFDs for spindles...

[mactec54]

I know... But we're talking about VFDs for spindles...

Makes no difference they are not a phase converter, A VFD Drive, and a Phase converter are very different.

[dazp1976]

Well. It may be slightly different kettle of fish (I'm in u.k.) but my servo drive on single phase is 1.8kw. Rated for a 30A breaker, can peak at 56A!.
VFD's I've seen on sale inside the u.k. for single phase stop at 2.2kw (which could likely peak current of up to 60A+) and then go on to 3 phase.
You have to import more powerful stuff that can work on single.
It isn't just about what it's rated at, you need to consider bursts too.

I remember I had a large 1800w cross slide saw that would trip anything below a 25A breaker, Due to burst current.
However, if you got it started it would run constant no problems. Was resolved with a 32A swap.
VFD's, spindles and servos burst at a damn sight more.

TBH The main issue I recckon over here is the electric service cables coming in to residential are s**t. They aren't capable of coping well with much more than 80A in total.
My service fuse is 80A.
They don't really want anything over 2200w in use in case the crap wiring caches fire.

If you had to go through house insurance claim because of electrical fire and evaluator saw you had a high power VFD, you'd be voided and get nothing.
You likely wouldn't be able to get machinery insurance included in the first place without an expensive upgrade requiring street groundworks.

[pippin88]

Well. It may be slightly different kettle of fish (I'm in u.k.) but my servo drive on single phase is 1.8kw. Rated for a 30A breaker, can peak at 56A!.

Your servo will be rated at 1.8kw for continuous duty, however will be able to peak at much higher than that. Hence the high peak.
Servos are usually designed to have short peaks. They can't sustain these loads for long periods as they would overheat.
Peak load is often seen for short bursts during acceleration.

Spindle motors used with VFD are usually rated for a continuous power which is not expected to be exceeded.
Spindle are expected to see more consistent / continuous loads.

VFDs can be programmed with maximum currents.

Any decent quality servo drive can also be programmed with maximum currents and to not exceed this or to error out if current draw exceeds this.