[mmeiring]

I too have ordered the 24x36 kit. I have spoke with Sandy several time except for the last time I has a question. I was also told that he is no long with their company. On my initial contact with Sandy he told me that this router should use steppers not servos. Not sure if this is really true or not but I was told that servos were not recommended. I didn't think twice about the comment as I wanted steppers anyhow. I have placed several calls to them about questions before and after my purchase. Some of these placed calls were answered right away other I had to leave a message. The times that I had to leave a message they called me back the same day. My last call was to verify stepper driver configuration for the y axis. I left a message in the morning. Melody called me back mid afternoon, apologizing for it taking so long. She was not sure of the answer to my question so she had Mark (who assemble these tables) call me back. He called me back a couple of hours later and answered my questions confidently.

My experience with DynaCnc to date has been good. Every one that I have talked to have been very pleasant and helpful (Sandy, Melody, & Mark). Would I like to have had my phone call answered by a person right away instead of leaving a message? Sure, but getting a call back the same day was fine. My router has not been delivered as of yet so I can not comment on them meeting delivery times or on quality. It been 4 week now so if they meet the 6 week timeframe I should get delivery during my vacation I have scheduled. I any are interested I can report back my experiences when I get my table.

[lovebugjunkie]

Hello Dany CNC

If you get that table back, I would be interested in knowing the price. Maybe I could talk my banker (wife )into freeing up some $$.

[tohlsson]

We have our two 24" x 36" up and running now. I have to say I don't recommend these kits for beginners. There's a lot of tweaking involved, and there are easier alternatives. We've had specific problems with both machines having excessive backlash(0.030") on the x-axis due to the leadscrew having no support bearing on the drive side. Both kits had bent leadscrews, and poorly machined ends on the y-axis. The setscrew grooves on the linear rails are unevenly machined. They appear to be done by hand. The machines run about half as fast as our K2 machine, and aren't nearly as accurate. Due to these issues we are unable to use these machines for our more detailed parts. I get the impression that the kits aren't given the same attention to detail as the turn-key systems DynaCNC offers.

I want to make it clear that I'm not bashing DynaCNC, but objectively sharing our experience. I think that it is appropriate to judge a company it's service and product quality. All in all, if I had to do it again, I'd spend a little more to avoid the setup and quality issues.

[something2do]

Finally had first movement.
-no smoke
-no broke machine parts
-wood part that almost looks right
The fastest i can get out of it is 20ipm without loosing steps, unless its some settings i screwed up. I was hoping for closer to 50ipm .

I am useing 425 oz steppers not sure weight of gantry,keling 3225drivers putting out 2.52 amps and 24volt power supply . anyone have any ideas how fast i should be able to get?

[Torchhead]

Finally had first movement.
-no smoke
-no broke machine parts
-wood part that almost looks right
The fastest i can get out of it is 20ipm without loosing steps, unless its some settings i screwed up. I was hoping for closer to 50ipm .

I am useing 425 oz steppers not sure weight of gantry,keling 3225drivers putting out 2.52 amps and 24volt power supply . anyone have any ideas how fast i should be able to get?

Based on the leadscrew and the voltage you are using I would say that absolute top speed with everything perfect would be 30 IPM. That comes from the fact that the motors will only do about 350 - 400 RPM with 24 VDC. I think those leadscrews are 10TPI Directly coupled they would give you 40 IPM but I think they may have belt reduction(?).

If you want more speed up your voltage (if the stepper drives will take it) to 48VDC). You may need to upgrade to the keling 5042 drives that will take up to 50VDC. RPM comes from volts. Bigger motors won't spin faster and some actually have worse high RPM specs than smaller motors. If there is belt reduction take it to 1:1 or try swapping the pulleys to get belt increase

Check here for a good price on a 48VDC supply that should drive those motors. http://www.bgmicro.com

The good news is you should have good resolution.

tomCAUDLE
www.CandCNC.com

[something2do]

-I think these drivers are only good up to 32 volts so building a new box is a project for next winter .

-yes 10tpi acme
-and yes I do have the y's at 1:1 which i could gear up but z and x are direct so i'm out of luck

-also the drives are set for 1/2 step because i have visions of more detailed pieces Iguess i could get speed there

I'm a beginner in cnc I thank all for there help, hints and tips and is very much appreciated. Also thank you Dave and Mark for fixing your mistakes and standing behind your machine. The smile I had while ordering your kit is returning:

[tohlsson]

Hi,

Our speed problems(racking and binding) were due to poorly machined leadscrew ends, and the x-axis leadscrew being unsupported at the drive end. Something the motor manufacturers, for good reason, say not do. So much for the claimed over engineering! We've since upgraded to ballscrews and installed support bearings on the unsupported ends. I'm also running 425 oz steppers, and can run reliably at 75ipm. My partner runs at 120ipm reliably with a slightly different setup. I will be posting a summary (conclusion), with pictures, of our DynaCNC experience within the next week. Again, I want to make it clear that I'm not bashing DynaCNC, but only summarizing our experience with the two kits we purchased.

Thanks,
Terry

[askman]

I am friend of tohlsson. We've each purchased a dyna kit that is advertised on ebay.

I would just like to share my experience. first my background.
this was my 4th CNC. I have K2 25-14 as well as taig cnc(which was my first) I also have converted mini mill using cnc fusion kit. I also work with motion control and have extensive experience with various CNCs as well as programming. I do run a side business that is doing quite well and I needed a bigger CNC for my expanding business.


We basically saw a good deal on ebay, and since they were within driving distance, with what I could find out, it was a great deal, and we figured we can make anything work. we were bit concerned about the ebay ad, which left out lot of details, but we talked to sandy and felt that they were legitimate.

We ordered the 2 machines in early November. We were told to expect 5-6 weeks to be ready. we figured we will have time over the christmas break to put it together. In the end, it took more than twice the time. I can understand being delayed, but least they could give us was good ETA. rather, it was always "next week" I guess sandy is no longer with the company, and may be they fixed this issue. eventually, we were told our "kits" were ready, and this was mid feb. (weekend before president day)

I will not get into our experience picking up the machine, but will talk about the machine itself.

We've noticed that end of the lead screw were not machined well. it was bit off centered, but we figured it was usable. Machine is primarily made from 80-20 aluminum and base is pretty solid. about 200lb+ Lead screws were 10:1 acme with bronze nuts. the linear bearings are simple ceramic ones without recirculating balls. machine overall looked nice but there were some poor machining on the linear shaft and the lead screw ends. Also, we initially noticed that x axis was only supported on one end. on the stepper end, it depended upon the stepper motor for support. this is also true for z axis. I am using 280oz steppers on all the axis with 4 channel xylotex drive. I use this on all my other machine and have gotten reasonable performance.

after much fussing(due to lack of manual) I got mine up and running during the president day weekend. I was getting about 30" /min on most axis, 40" on Y axis.which was acceptable. the Y axis leadscrews though were not smooth at all due to poor end machining. center of leadscrew would move about .5" up and down. the bigger issue was back lash on the X axis. I had preloaded the stepper (which is hard on the motor) the best I could do was .030" backlash just from screw moving. with compensation from Mach 3, it would cut reasonably.

for about 2 weeks, I tested and ran the cnc cutting parts for my business. after about 2 weeks (about 20 hours), I've started to see backlash on the Y axis as well. (nut was wearing in, as it was not self compensating) For next month or so, I messed with setup, etc but it just was not going to cut to accuracy I need. I still had my k2, which has performed fairly well for over a year(it has its own issues, but I won't get into that on this post)

anyway, at this point, both Tohlsson and I've had enough with trying to make this work. I suggested that we need to fix this setup right, and we've decided to replace the lead screws with ball screws and nut and redesign the x axis to support the stepper end.

I've measure the length we needed and place an order with www.homeshopcnc.com for nook 5/8" ball screw with preloaded nut for our 2 machines. since z was working ok, we only replaced the X and Y axis, and we had the ends machined for us. total cost was bit over 1000 bucks for 2 machines. We've received the ball screws which took bit over a month (I guess nook is having supply issues) very nicely made

The end block had to be machined down and tapped with 15/16-16 tap. (machining required so that nut will clear) this was done easily using a bridgeport knee mill and using a tap we purchased. the head block was already tapped for this thread, so did not need more work. about 2 hours of machining time and ball screws was ready to install. we also added a end plate with support bearing for the x axis and move the stepper using spacer.
figure half day of work and another half day of disassembly/assembly.

after it was put back together, I am now able to run it at 100"/min on each axis (It will run at 120"/min, but I like bit of margin) it is also very smooth. most of my cutting is done at much slower speed. no vibration and no backlash. (about .001" and tohlsson is getting .002") Now I am a happy customer.

kit now cost 1500 plus ship. (we got ours at 1300 before they raised their price) figure 550 for new lead screws and parts. another 450 for stepper/control. so, 2500 or so invested plus Lot of time spent machining and modifying. for all the hassle, i would have been better off buying K2 4025. Still, I now have a solid little machine. I will probably end up designing and building my own machine next though. oh yes, total travel I get is 35x23.7 after the fix. originally, I got 35x25.

Tohlsson will be posting pic and his own experience later this weekend.


I hope that dyna can redesign and fix this kit. overall, this kit has pretty solid base. all they have to do fix the kit is following:

1) isupport the x axis lead screw on both end
2) change out the bronze nut to some form of compensating nut on x and y axis.
3) get a better control on their machining.

if they fix these issues, I believe this will be very good kit for the money. if they make a small change to the design, they can even add ballscrew upgrade for substantial more money.

[x6xtyx9x]

Good Evening Gentlemen,

I see that it is almost midnight (at my time) on a Saturday night. As a PROUD distributor of DynaCNC machines, I must say that I am extremely sorry for your troubles. I apologize for your lack of sleep and am offering to speak with any of you to offer any help in your efforts.

Please add me to your MSN or YAHOO accounts, or private message me asking me to CNCzone chat. epiksolutions at msn or yahoo will give you full access to chat with me. It is late, and I am working hard to provide my customers with the best solutions possible through DynaCNC.

Again, I apologize for your experiences. The offer is up, I hope you take advantage of the offer. I will give you an hour before I decide not to wait any longer.

Thank you,

Tyler Shinaberry

[EPIK Ltd.]

I apologize for logging on under my personal Zone name. For business related discussions, please use this username to message me.

With that out of the way: If anyone at all has any grievances, any fears, or any questions regarding DynaCNC products, they can reach me through the CNCZone via this user name. I also urge you to contact me via instant messaging at epiksolutions @ either msn.com, or yahoo.com. For email, please use the account [email protected], all of my private messages reach this box as well.

As a distributor of DynaCNC, I feel that is important that I look into any feedback regarding our products. As with any product, no product is perfect. However, the road to machine perfection is paved with the experiences of our customers. If you have suggestions, please tell us.

I must get off of here soon as a storm is approaching. I will be back on if things clear up. I see that many people are viewing this thread, and I would like to make myself available to them if need be.

I thank you for all the constructive criticism. And as Kev pointed out, Dave is proud of his company; with much reason to be. As a distributor, I am PROUD of his attitude towards criticism, and feel that his attitude is what has made DynaCNC a forerunner in the industry.

Please do not forget that we are not just machine makers, but we are customers ourselves. I thank you all for your support as well as criticism, and wish you all the best. I speak for both Dave and myself when I say that we are here to serve you. Your success is important to us, and is essential for our own success.


Tyler Shinaberry
EPIK

[CrashMasterKev]

Good evening Tyler,
Let me start by saying I commend you for wanting to stand behind a product that you distribute and even wanting to get involved in this situation.

I am open to remedies to resolve the issues at hand, however they are not as simple as a refund to shut me up.
All I want a machine that runs reasonably well.
THAT’S IT!
That’s what I paid for, that’s what I expect, and I hope that that is what the manufacturer would want his customers to receive.
I hope to hear from you and I hope to come to a resolution that changes my opinion on this matter.
Thanks,
Have a good weekend,
God bless our troops and the veterans that have made this country what it is today.
Happy Memorial Day.
CMK

[EPIK Ltd.]

Hi Kev,

I feel it would be more appropriate if we were to discuss this in instant messaging or in CHAT. Less typing, more one on one... more personable.

I want to elaborate on your closing. It is our troops that give us the freedom to choose what businesses we wish to do business with. Because we have that freedom of choice, it is necessary that a business looks good to future clientelle, as well as return customers. I was once in your shoes looking for a machine. CNCZone is where I found my answers. It is the gateway to many newbies and potential machine buyers, and it is essential that potential purchasers get the truth.

I am sorry that DynaCNC has not met your expectations. I will sit here, and refuse to state that the product is not capable of "running reasonably well". I accept the challenge of making you happy, and will tell you now that Dave and I have spoke of your situation, and he doesn't know what else to give you! You have established what you want... now, tell ME what it will TAKE...in detail. Be specific.

As witness to all reading this, you admit that Dave has done what most everyone else in the world would consider the ULTIMATE apology by refunding. Apparently you want a little more. If you promise that you will quit running my partner and friend's name in the dirt, and become a supporter of DynaCNC because of our service, I will gladly help you. On that condition.

If you don't, please understand that you are only making yourself look bad to your peers. You seem like a decent guy and I don't want you to do that to yourself. The situation has already been solved, and most would be impressed at how Dave handled the situation. There is not much more that could be done, if at all there is anything. Consider this an act of friendship between CNCZONE members. We are a family, I don't want the others to look down on you. Let ME help YOU.

Tyler

[something2do]

askman could you please post pics of your upgrade/fix. I'm sure I'll need to do the same to my machine to satisfy my expectations . I'll post my story once it has an ending.

[askman]

tohlsson will be posting complete picture/report this weekend. if he does not, I will.

thanks tyler for contacting me. I do hope that dyna can get the design fixed. that is the first thing they need to do. once that is done, they will have lot less complaints.

[EPIK Ltd.]

Very happy to be of your service Askman.

Because the number of you experiencing problems, please conglomerate your headaches into a WORD document (with pictures) for me, and I will forward it on to Dave --- [email protected]. From there, I will see if there is a simple solution to all this.

Once again, I will state that you all purchased kits. As with anything, a kit will work in theory. Small errors on either side can ruin everything. However, I guarantee you that Dave would not send you something incapable of becoming a useful machine; when you stand behind your product, you don’t send crap out, crap stinks to stand by (pun intended). Lets be practical guys, to reduce costs, the Ford Motor Company does not send cars in kits for the buyer to put together. Too much can go wrong, please be thankful that you even had this option, it saved you a pretty penny, and now we, as long as yourselves, are left with the headaches. I apologize for any stress this situation may have caused.

I cannot, and will not speak for Dave. However, as a distributor, I feel obligated to bring up your situation to him. Once again, please put together an honest complaint and I will see what I can do. I will not guarantee that something will be done, kits are sold as is---for an honest reason…you all saved your money, but I can state that if there is in fact a legitimate claim here, things will be changed.

I thank you all for your maturity in this matter, and hope that you find a way to make your machines the money making pieces of equipment that they are. DynaCNC and EPIK are here to make you all more successful than you already are. Gentlemen, let the success begin.




Tyler Shinaberry
EPIK
Owner

[askman]

I will respectably disagree. not all of the people here are kit buyers. beyond that, if you are going to sell kits, you have to make sure that people buying the kits end up happy. otherwise, you are worse off than not sellling kits at all. May be it is a tougher proposition than selling full running machine, but I believe you can minimize the issue with good design and execution. may be my expectation was too high. still, .030 backlash is not acceptable IMHO. and people who buy kits are the ones that will buy bigger machine later on, as well as give references. nobody said being in business is easy, but with competition, customer feedback is very important. it is much easier to keep people happy from the beginning.

Let me give you an example. I bought K2 2514 kit (basically full machine without the electronics) it was mostly assembled, but stiill required bit of tuning and final bit of assembly to make it run the way I wanted it. beyond that, I had one lead screw that had issues but they replaced it right away, no questions asked. no manual either, but no problem putting it together. it has been running well for over a year now. may be dyna should do the same for bit extra money, if they think poor user assembly is the issue. frankly, I disagree.

I would have done few different thing, if I was the design engineer.

I realize cost is important, but I would charge(and willing to pay) more for better machine.

1) go with recirculating linear bearings vs ceramic bearing on x and y axis. (z is not as important, as it is much shorter and lighter)

2) fully support the X axis lead screw on both end (requires 1 plate, 4 standoff and 1 flanged bearing with bit longer lead screw)

3) make the Y axis travel so that it is full 36" or even bit more. (there is enough room on the table, just need about 2" longer lead screw and rail shaft)

beyond that it will be nice to have wear compenstaing nut on x and y axis.

if I could have have had a good accuracy, 30-40"/min jog speed would have been good enough for me. (or for most people in this market)

anyway, thank for your attention.

[EPIK Ltd.]

I have glanced at a majority of the replies in this thread. Most of the complaints regard kits. I will not go into these situations, as none of them relate directly to EPIK, I am not able to comment. Kev's complaint was with the equipping of the machine, out of my hands as well as Dave's. Dave made that right as well as he good, plain and simple. In fact, none of these are my sales, but I am willing to look into what you all want so that I can take care of future clients to the best of my abilities. I thought his anger was settled in March, apparently it was not. Personally I am a ball/servo combo guy and would not buy anything else...I know where he is coming from...but I would have been cured from my hate after Dave made things right.

Dyna is a company that embraces cutting edge technology, that involves taking ANY and ALL feedback into the design of the machines. For that, I must thank you all for pitching in. Negative feedback, regardless of its origins, is what opens the road to perfection. I do not mean to be nosey, but before you all made these drastic modifications, did you guys contact Dyna to see if there was a reason things are the way they are? Forums are great when you can't get help straight from the horse's mouth, but DynaCNC stands behind their products, if you have a problem JUST ASK!

The thing that makes this hard, is that out of all the machines sold, there are only a few unhappy souls. The kits are the same things that get sent out assembled...as well as tested to extreme tolerances. So it is necessary to ask where the problem lies. I am in no way saying that any of the errors are your fault, it would be impossible to know this from my seat. Dave and I were both talking about it last weekend, and I thought he was just kidding when he said that when people hope he can't sleep at night, he wished they knew that he really can't. Look at the times of my replies... it should be obvious that I am no exception to that statement. We are both business owners ourselves, we know how much this stuff hurts. We've been there.

Anyways, I am strongly trying to pressure Dave to quit selling kits altogether if it gives us this sort of a reputation. EPIK will not be selling kits---singlized parts, yes. Kits, NO. I personally refuse to stand behind something I did not fully test. Sorry to break anyone's bubble, and deter any potential clients, but too many individuals rely on the machine to be up and running for my business to take the risks. In fact, EPIK does more than just distribute these fine products, we are consultants, any bad feedback on DynaCNC, is bad feedback on the company as a whole. If I put my whole company on the line for these products, imagine how far I will go to stand behind them. Please take a moment to dwell on that.

Anyways, thanks for the feedback guys. I will pass it on to Dave. Enjoy your Memorial Day, and remember what they gave for us. In comparison, all else is trivial. I hope we can all work this out. It genuinely hurts to know that you are unhappy with the DynaCNC products. If any of you return to the market in need of a machine, pleae be sure to check back in. Your complaints may no longer be an issue, and we want your business. I fully believe that our products can make you successful, and we want you to be. Thank you for your time gentlemen, I will check back in soon. Otherwise, you all have my contact pts.

Thank you

Tyler Shinaberry

[zigzag54]

I'm quite familiar with DyanCNC products & if I had to do it all over again, I'd find another supplier. Reasons why I would suggest another firm? How about poor workmanship & piss poor tech support. When I received my unit there were parts floating around in the control cabinet & wiring that had come free from their cable blocks. They use nylock nuts, a good move (some would say) to curb loose fasteners thru vibration, but if the screws aren't long enough to take advantage of the nylon, what's the use? Tech support is nonexistent. I had a major problem with the THC section they could never figure out. DynaCNC's own Tech Support rep suggested I contact their supplier of the electronics. Had to go to Tom Caudle of CandCNC to get the answer. I can't tell you how many DAYS & DOLLARS I spent, dead in the water, because DynaCNC coudn't get it right. In the industry there's an acronym called CRM (Customer Service Management), in summary it's a method of how to keep customers. Dyna CNC has re-written it to read Customer Service Mismanagement. As you can see from previous emails, Dave Cress has undertaken the job of damage control. I believe that speaks volumes.

[DynaCNC]

I hope that dyna can redesign and fix this kit. overall, this kit has pretty solid base. all they have to do fix the kit is following:

1) isupport the x axis lead screw on both end
2) change out the bronze nut to some form of compensating nut on x and y axis.
3) get a better control on their machining.

if they fix these issues, I believe this will be very good kit for the money. if they make a small change to the design, they can even add ballscrew upgrade for substantial more money.

Thank you for your productive comments; To answer your above remarks:

1) We have an option that contains the lead screw on both ends of the "X" axis. It was added a month ago to our fully assembled machines.
2) For the money this is the best long lasting nut we can produce. We have tried other plastic compensating nuts with less success. Backlash compensation can be accomplished simply on Mach3.
3) Also, about a month ago, we purchased a Miyano CNC lathe just for that reason. All of our lead screws and drive shafts are machined to very precise measurments on our cnc lathe as of the beginning of May 2007.
4) We have offered a ballscrew option from the beginning for a very good price. All of our "fully assembled" Table Top Machines with ballscrews run at over 100 ipm.

Considering this chassis is sold as a kit for $1500.00, it is designed to get people off to a good start of owning a small home workshop cnc machine. This same machine with all of the options costs $5300.00 +-, fully assembled at our factory. The chassis kit was designed for the folks bidding on eBay to get a solid chassis they can "add to" and "modify" into a machine they can use for their individual reasons.
I hope this clears up the issues stated above.

[Torchhead]

.....I had a major problem with the THC section they could never figure out. DynaCNC's own Tech Support rep suggested I contact their supplier of the electronics. Had to go to Tom Caudle of CandCNC to get the answer. I can't tell you how many DAYS & DOLLARS I spent, dead in the water, because DynaCNC coudn't get it right.

Ahhh, just what makes me REALLY happy. Helping to get a customer running with their THC and then getting dished for the effort.

You can bet I'll jump through my ass to help you in the future.

Tom Caudle
CandCNC