[Shotout]

One of Many
Perhaps our mileage just differs. I'm not out to offend anyone, you are of course included in that so I hope you don't take offense, even if you take umbrage be assured I'm not out to goad you. That really is all I have to say on it.

I say healthy as in the fact that a person who's mind isn't fundamentally self centered usually suffers from a personality disorder. I see a lot of narcissism and a disturbing lack of empathy as the cultural culprit IMO. I base this on talks with psychologist and psychiatrist friends of mine. One of these persons deals with a lot of court referrals through the juvenile justice system. Some of the cases he speaks about, always in general terms and with complete anonymity for the patient, are disturbing. He says he is seeing more and more kids with sociopath tendencies, compared he says, with symptoms of milder personality disorders in the past that feature narcissism but not to the extreme ranged of the former. Eddie Hasckell writ large. With all the polarizing issues in our lives these days it isn't surprising to me that people have a us vs them attitude. GW is an excellent example. Two contributors to this thread recently showed us just how a position can morph into a doctrine and cause strife. We are so busy arguing about the broad strokes we can't even find common ground.

I've seen the orbital photos that Nasa released showing arctic ice retreating since the days of Space Lab, they are dramatic. There is little doubt for me that climate changes is here. Even so it seems I can't find common ground with the followers of the GW bandwagon. They often simply refuse to discuss the possibility that man isn't the major; only factor. No one can intelligently argue that Earth hasn't been a much warmer and much colder place than it is now in the history of mankind, but suggest it is a natural cycle and you've committed blasphemy. Due to the warming in Siberia we have made finds that show that what is now permafrost use to be more temperate, with bodies of water that only froze over for the winter and supported large mammals like mammoths, you still will be insulted by many for suggesting that gw might simply be a natural cycle. Unless someone wants to prove mammoth flatulence keep it warmer then so that it was more temperate. To much division based on ideology for my taste.

[One of Many]

One of Many
Perhaps our mileage just differs. I'm not out to offend anyone, you are of course included in that so I hope you don't take offense, even if you take umbrage be assured I'm not out to goad you. That really is all I have to say on it.

Mileage or comprehension of what transpired is there in black and blue. I realize in that regard where individual bystanders can experience the same instance and come away with a totally different perspective. Context can manipulate that conclusion unfairly. As I see it, my assessment combined with years of reading his other posts around the zone was verified accurate proven admittingly somewhat intentional to irritate. Making a habit of it, is acting above reproach. Putting up with it would IMHO be condoning it. My only resentment is that your statement was again being used in a misconstrued manner. No real offense taken, just setting the record straight.

[quote=Shotout;398996]I say healthy as in the fact that a person who's mind isn't fundamentally self centered usually suffers from a personality disorder. I see a lot of narcissism and a disturbing lack of empathy as the cultural culprit IMO. I base this on talks with psychologist and psychiatrist friends of mine. One of these persons deals with a lot of court referrals through the juvenile justice system. Some of the cases he speaks about, always in general terms and with complete anonymity for the patient, are disturbing. He says he is seeing more and more kids with sociopath tendencies, compared he says, with symptoms of milder personality disorders in the past that feature narcissism but not to the extreme ranged of the former. Eddie Haskell writ large. With all the polarizing issues in our lives these days it isn't surprising to me that people have a us vs them attitude. GW is an excellent example. Two contributors to this thread recently showed us just how a position can morph into a doctrine and cause strife. We are so busy arguing about the broad strokes we can't even find common ground.

I have always wondered if people that are self centered have a personality disorder! LOL!

My Wife's Uncle and his new wife are both Psychiatrists down in So. Cal. They have told me most of the PHD's in their profession have more mess up personal lives than the people that come to see them.

I'll agree that empathy is what grants us refrain from being self centered and selfish or using it against others intentionally. Putting people around us first, bodes well in friendship. We reap what we sow. Being around apathetic and indifferent characters oblivious in how ones behavior effect others is like the bad apple that spoils the bunch. It's contagious where in misery loves company.

When strife is the goal, reaction is the reward. Doctrine can become a weapon once you have chosen a side to defend. I know I was part of that and looking for a way to bow out without backing down. I began seeing my own involvement a ridiculous waste of energy against a character that I still believe does not truly exist for no other reason than a stain guard that can't be posted by its puppet master without respected member credibility damage. That just shows how far I have come to trust people in forums, let alone my personal life. You may be correct that narcissism is an excuse to point out differences. Which builds walls to mutual understanding, destroying a communication opportunity and desire to find common ground. Been there, done that and still fall into the same stupid trap.

I've seen the orbital photos that Nasa released showing arctic ice retreating since the days of Space Lab, they are dramatic. There is little doubt for me that climate changes is here. Even so it seems I can't find common ground with the followers of the GW bandwagon. They often simply refuse to discuss the possibility that man isn't the major; only factor. No one can intelligently argue that Earth hasn't been a much warmer and much colder place than it is now in the history of mankind, but suggest it is a natural cycle and you've committed blasphemy. Due to the warming in Siberia we have made finds that show that what is now permafrost use to be more temperate, with bodies of water that only froze over for the winter and supported large mammals like mammoths, you still will be insulted by many for suggesting that gw might simply be a natural cycle. Unless someone wants to prove mammoth flatulence keep it warmer then so that it was more temperate. To much division based on ideology for my taste.

Every time there is a vacuum created that sheds' light on questionable data, they cannot move fast enough to fill it again. Much of the statements made by top officials instruct the media fronts how to make it believable and fore warned not to offer facts that detract from the cause if they want their paychecks to continue. They know the laymen cannot discern all the data in a scientific view. So they offer to paint the image what they think it means as a plausible sell. It is no longer a question mark. It is head long into resolving a premonition.

DC

[Shotout]

Mileage...<snip>

Every time there is a vacuum created that sheds' light on questionable data, they cannot move fast enough to fill it again. Much of the statements made by top officials instruct the media fronts how to make it believable and fore warned not to offer facts that detract from the cause if they want their paychecks to continue. They know the laymen cannot discern all the data in a scientific view. So they offer to paint the image what they think it means as a plausible sell. It is no longer a question mark. It is head long into resolving a premonition.

DC

By media fronts I assume you are talking about govt press agents as well as spokesmen for groups receiving grant money to specifically study what the govt wants studied. As much of a problem as I have with a govt that has an agenda with it's own people that they can't openly discuss, I can understand the latter as being a matter of not biting the hand even if wrong. I'll leave my opinions about the govt for elsewhere. My problem is with the media right now. For all the ivory tower talk that is the one that needs a little imaginative use of high explosives. This self styled branch of the people, defenders of a public trust, have gotten so far above themselves it is ludicrous. IMO, looking back at history, former current events for others here, they felt their true power over the people during the Kennedy/Nixon pres debates. Ever since then the media, NBC and now FOX are pretty blatant about it, have been trying to tell, we the unwashed masses, what to think. They receive special considerations that the public doesn't as a matter of public trust that is now misplaced. Walter Cronkite and Edward R Murrow are spinning I'm sure. The owners of these "public trusts" make money off of GW. From advertising rates based on viewer ratings to carbon credits. It is a case of the chickens fearing the guards. No other position but the ones they endorse are reasonably presented. Mr. Doom and Mr. Gloom warrant a week long propaganda session, but Mr. Cautiously Optimistic only receives an honorable mention to appear unbiased. I guess this is what G. H. Bush (whom I voted for twice) meant when he talked about a new world order. I said it before but, if we could leave this solely to the scientist to research and reach conclusions based on fact rather than political pressure we might get answers we can trust.

[jhowelb]

By media fronts I assume you are talking about govt press agents as well as spokesmen for groups receiving grant money to specifically study what the govt wants studied. As much of a problem as I have with a govt that has an agenda with it's own people that they can't openly discuss, I can understand the latter as being a matter of not biting the hand even if wrong. I'll leave my opinions about the govt for elsewhere. My problem is with the media right now. For all the ivory tower talk that is the one that needs a little imaginative use of high explosives. This self styled branch of the people, defenders of a public trust, have gotten so far above themselves it is ludicrous. IMO, looking back at history, former current events for others here, they felt their true power over the people during the Kennedy/Nixon pres debates. Ever since then the media, NBC and now FOX are pretty blatant about it, have been trying to tell, we the unwashed masses, what to think. They receive special considerations that the public doesn't as a matter of public trust that is now misplaced. Walter Cronkite and Edward R Murrow are spinning I'm sure. The owners of these "public trusts" make money off of GW. From advertising rates based on viewer ratings to carbon credits. It is a case of the chickens fearing the guards. No other position but the ones they endorse are reasonably presented. Mr. Doom and Mr. Gloom warrant a week long propaganda session, but Mr. Cautiously Optimistic only receives an honorable mention to appear unbiased. I guess this is what G. H. Bush (whom I voted for twice) meant when he talked about a new world order. I said it before but, if we could leave this solely to the scientist to research and reach conclusions based on fact rather than political pressure we might get answers we can trust.

This media you speak of has become the public relations/propaganda arm of the Democrat party.

I too voted for GWB as the lesser of the evils, and now again we are faced with a choice of the lesser of. On almost every front he has been a disappointment, but it could have been worse. Take Arnold for instance. There is a real RINO! Only marginally better than the one we put him in to replace.

Just leaving this matter to the scientists won't get it, the public funding for this research must be pulled from the field to see the true value of the research. If not for the govt. slop trough these pigs would be foraging else where. (reference back to that WORTHLESS post about pigs)

[One of Many]

By media fronts I assume you are talking about govt press agents as well as spokesmen for groups receiving grant money to specifically study what the govt wants studied. As much of a problem as I have with a govt that has an agenda with it's own people that they can't openly discuss, I can understand the latter as being a matter of not biting the hand even if wrong. I'll leave my opinions about the govt for elsewhere. My problem is with the media right now. For all the ivory tower talk that is the one that needs a little imaginative use of high explosives. This self styled branch of the people, defenders of a public trust, have gotten so far above themselves it is ludicrous. IMO, looking back at history, former current events for others here, they felt their true power over the people during the Kennedy/Nixon pres debates. Ever since then the media, NBC and now FOX are pretty blatant about it, have been trying to tell, we the unwashed masses, what to think. They receive special considerations that the public doesn't as a matter of public trust that is now misplaced. Walter Cronkite and Edward R Murrow are spinning I'm sure. The owners of these "public trusts" make money off of GW. From advertising rates based on viewer ratings to carbon credits. It is a case of the chickens fearing the guards. No other position but the ones they endorse are reasonably presented. Mr. Doom and Mr. Gloom warrant a week long propaganda session, but Mr. Cautiously Optimistic only receives an honorable mention to appear unbiased. I guess this is what G. H. Bush (whom I voted for twice) meant when he talked about a new world order. I said it before but, if we could leave this solely to the scientist to research and reach conclusions based on fact rather than political pressure we might get answers we can trust.

Pretty much, anyone that has a positive economic stake in the GW agenda will follow suit. The issue just needs to be placed in the right light to alter public perception. Cronkite and Murrow knew that and used their positions to tilt public opinion on many issues. Mainly the VN war to our national detriment. They were trusted sources on a mission and ever since then, the media knows no bounds to the power of influence. Blatant propaganda films from the likes of Moore and Gore take a story line and match that up with images that have no connection to provoke emotion and illusions that they know of what they speak. Half truths working to their advantage become the foundation of history when the whole truth is long dead and buried. Even your local news uses archived file videos matched up with unrelated events to inflate a segments drama. I think it is dead wrong not to have something in view that makes it obvious the video and audio are unrelated and may unfairly draw a false conclusion.

I think We the conservative base that put this bunch in office have lost confidence in electable public trust. There doesn't seem to be as much support for the current crop. The left has had a long wait and that drives their enthusiasm with much greater numbers in support. When any party becomes disillusioned by their own leaders, the support falls and darn near hands the other side a victory.

The latest "economic stimulus package" seems to be a proverbial hanky to blow your nose into and wipe your eyes of tears psychologically propping up the dollar. I was surprised to see the market respond, but they have been trained too. If inflation is at around 7%, that means my salary loss 7% is less. The rebate covers only about 1/3 of the loss and the funding may be borrowed from China? The tax man doesn't have enough to cover current debt, let alone a rebate. The real shock is the bipartisan support for what amounts to a welfare redistribution. Talk about ludicrous! Everyone best hold onto that rebate until after the next election and the economy turns around. I'd bet they want it all back x3 with interest! They no longer serve us, we serve them!

I'd want to know which scientist are in what pocket before I'd give them any credibility. Especially when there are some that get blackballed for not conforming on a united front.

Interesting stuff to ponder,

DC