[rgh]

I thought I would let folks know that I spoke with ShopSabre this AM. They have reviewed the video and are working on the best way to solve the issues I have been having, and expect to be getting back with me by the end of the day on their recommended solution. I will keep this thread updated with how that goes.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread. Your comments and suggestions have been extremely helpful in understanding what is reasonable to expect from a machine of this caliber.

Thanks Again, I will post again when I have more information.
Randy

[JFettig]

So, hows it coming?

Jon

[rgh]

Hi Jon,
I have been working with ShopSabre to see what can be done. We are still working through the details, but they feel that given the issues we have been dealing with, it may be best to replace the machine. I will keep everyone posted on the progress of this, but I have to say that though this has been painful for everyone involved, it is nice to know that there are companies out there that will do what it takes to ensure their customers are taken care of, even if it means doing something like a mech replacement, which would be expensive for both of us but may be the best solution.

Randy

[KustomKoncepts]

I wanted to chime in and say Shop sabre is a great company. I live 3 hours away and had the oportunity to visit them for a day before making my purchase. They are smaller but take care of their people and they know what they are doing. I will also say that the 4-6 weeks was more like 8 weeks to deliver also but worth the wait. Once I got my machine I had already made 2 $900 payments plus bits supplies ect. It has been a rocky 9 months but I am doing good with it now. I had issues that I also blamed the machine right away but they have all been set up/ tuning and oporator errors.

When I first got the machine I had cut out some replica race tinz out of .040 aluminum 18" wide and it cut 2 spots erratically like your MISS v carve. with waving lines that should have been straigh. I thought it was the machine that could not cut it straigh but after I cooled down I went into the file I had drawn it in and after zooming in guess what the art had those wavvy lines in it. The machine can only cut what you tell it to do. I don't know why or what caused those lines And I see it from time to time in all my Sign Lab software but if you are familiar with NOD editing. there was about 50 NODS in a 2 " strech that should have been 2 nods. I erased the problem NODS and cuts perfect.
Hopw you get yours working

[rgh]

Thanks for the input KustomKoncepts,
We have definitely identified the issues with the machine as hardware. The problem occurs regardless if either a circle or diagonal command is issued. It appears to be in the bearings and possibly the servos or other components. At this point, the fact that SS is willing to replace the machine is the biggest statement of who they are, and what they stand for. The rep is still working up the documentation, but I am hoping to get this moving in the next week so we can get the new machine out and installed prior to xmas. (I may be dreaming on that one, but who knows)

Thanks again for your input, I will keep the forum in the loop as this progresses.

[ddgman2001]

What would it take to have a dedicated Shop Sabre area? I'd like to hear of others experiences. I'd be out of business if I had to deal with some of the issues you guys are having.

[KustomKoncepts]

What would it take to have a dedicated Shop Sabre area? I'd like to hear of others experiences. I'd be out of business if I had to deal with some of the issues you guys are having.

ddgman2001 do you have a Shop Sabre?

When ever you buy a new machine, a percentage of them is going to have issues some don't some do.there is not a single manufacure out here thet has not had some with issues. (REMEMBER YOU RARLY HEAR ABOUT THE GOOD ON FOURUMS ONLY WHEN WE HAVE ISSUES DO WE COME HERE TO TELL ABOUT IT I HAD 2 BAD POST COMPLAINING ABOUT MY ROUTER BUT HOW ABOUT THE OTHER 9 MONTHS IT HAS WORKED FINE) this site is a very small percentage of the number of any brand of machines that are out there working. I have only had a few but most of the problem wasset up error and I had never seen or ran any type of cnc before I got mine and it works fine now. There is a shop near by that bought a $580,000 KOMO cnc for cutting granite. They had worse issues and setup errors and had KOMO out here 6 times trying to fix it. try to have that payment and the same problems we $30,000 machines are having. it is life.

I will say that my machine works great I can not expect anymore for 30K there are so many manufacures out there when I was looking Imust have found about 100 companies and brands of CNC routers. there are a lot of great companies out there in all types of price and options ranges. if you have a specific question of what they can and can't do we (all brand owners) would love to share our experiences.

I will say the one thing that got me was all the add on's they really added up as I was building my quote for my router. and yes expect 8 to 10 weeks delivery. I also read in Sign Business Magazine (a national publication) about a shop who was getting a Milticam 5x10 router and they showed them getting it and said nationally that theres to took 10 weeks from time of order. so be prepaired to wait, I had 2 payments before I got it. I should have leased and you can get 3 months deferment payments to avoid this problem with traditional bank loans they start the clock the second you get the cash and cnc builders don't start till they get half down then their 6-10 week clock starts.

hope this helps

[setguy]

Kustom Koncepts, I think I agree with ddgman2001, it seems like more and more times people are looking into a Shop Sabre (We currently own a 48x96, and have had little problems other than of our own doing)

When we were researching routers, this forum was a factor in our choice. My business partner and I have little to no CNC experience other than the final product we sent out to get done. Now in the short time we have had our router I have learned A LOT about the do's and don't, the why's and why not's and some of the little quarks that.

I have notices that this board does have "sub forums" for certain manufactures:
Larken
K2CNC
DynaCNC
ect...

Take the Larken sub forum, it has 13 posts in it. Now do a search for Shop Sabre, there are 4 pages of posts (some are replies and multi-page). I am not trying to show anyone up, it's not my intention. I just know that to make an unbiased opinion on a major purchase, I want all the information I can get my hands on, and in the most efficient way possible, as you say there are 100's of CNCs out there. That's A LOT of web browsing.

It would be nice to have all the specific data concerning the ShopSabre in one area, since the manufacture doesn't have a forum or a blog up. Now that's not to say that the guys over there are not helpful when it comes to problems, it's just sometimes reading a post that someone has put up that has had the same experiences with the same machine can provide a better sense of what is going on then someone on the other end of the phone. and many times I am on here at 11pm and I see something and go "DUH! Now that makes more sense" when it would have been 2 hrs on the phone talking to the guys in Michigan.

I wish I had found some of Todd's posts before I set my machine up. Little things like the rubber pads under the feet is an invaluable piece of information. And it DOES make a difference. (Thank you Todd)

Now you wrote "I will say that my machine works great I can not expect anymore for 30K there are so many manufactures out there when I was looking I must have found about 100 companies and brands of CNC routers. there are a lot of great companies out there in all types of price and options ranges. if you have a specific question of what they can and can't do we (all brand owners) would love to share our experiences." And I agree with that 100%, IF you are buying. If you already own one, other then technical help from the manufacture and reading several forums like this, you're searching for answers and late at night, posting is sometime more helpful then calling ShopSabre and waiting until morning to get an answer.

ShopSabre boasts "The new ShopSabre CNC can achieve up to 1,200 inches per minute (ipm) with up to 200 pounds of cut force" but they don't say what material they are cutting, what bit, what router etc. etc. etc. I would like to know if anyone has done that... and what the results were. I personally have ramped our ShopSabre (4 hp spindle) to 400 ipm through 3/4 ply with a 1/4" spiral upcut bit. The results were satisfactory, but that is more from the lack of the vacuum grid on the top side of the table, another thing that would have been helpful to know.

Little things for the novice would be helpful, like If you order a ShopSabre, get the E-STOP. We didn't and we wish we did.

Things like my ShopSabre has a Mitsubishi VFD, but it does not talk to Win CNC, so we have an extra step in the process to contend with. We have to set the spindle speed manually and make sure it is on before we run the program, if you miss that step you lost a bit. We also have to check our G-Code to make sure there is not tool designation and or spindle speed listed.

Little things like the test program that they send to route out the ShopSabre sign should be out of 3/4" if you put 1/2" on the table, well, you get a 1/4" deep oval routed into your spoil board... yep, ours has one...

Now I am not Bashing ShopSabre in the least, these are little things we have learned to live with; except the VFD thing... still working with the Mitsubishi rep on that one. We LOVE our ShopSabre, it has increased our productivity and accuracy by leaps and bounds. From 3-D signs to basic cabinet carcasses. Right now I wouldn't trade it for another manufacture if they would give it to me for free (well...) I follow Todd's website with great interest just to see what he is doing and he has some AMAZING things on there. (sign... someday)

:cheers:

[KustomKoncepts]

You make very good points.

One thing I also did not want the e-stops they where EXTRA. I use the ESC key on the keyboard or by accident I found if you push the TOOL HEIGHT button by the tool changer it also stops everything.

I did opt for the ADD ON... Auto Spindel controls and Homing switches. It is wrote right into the program automatically in vectric and it auto starts and stops the spindel and the RPM is set when I am writing the tool paths. I can also control the RPM 1-24,000 and Feed Rate + - 200% from program setting on the fly right in Win CNC with slid bars. so I do not have the issues you are having with the controler.

Mine is the new 1200 IPM and yeah 1/2" Vortex Bit cutting a straight line, it will fly but not at all practicle. it Does help in the manual moving the machine around the table.

all machines Even my vinyl plotters they can't keep that speed if it is doing curves of circles or a lot of movement they have to slow down to make those so 1200 imp only for a straight line cut. and it is kinda freacky watching it go that fast you want to retreat to a safe 300 foot radious because stuff is flying.

I have the HSD 5 HP 5 Tool Changer model.

but you have to look at all the add ons to make the machine work best. I still did not get the vacume bed another add on. but it works for what I am doing with it.

[setguy]

We looked at the tool changer, spoke to a friend of ours that has the 7x12 model (BIG TABLE) he asked what we would be doing with it and told us to use the money for the vac table. we were working with a set budget as we paid for the thing outright.

our machine set up is:
48x96 with vac table
4 hp spindle with Mitsubishi VFD
with the servos, homing and limit switches

we are hoping (with ShopSabre's help) to upgrade is slowly. we wanted to get the servo package in the beginning to keep us on the front side of the upgrade and the Vac Table to help with all of the repetitive cutting we do. one "MOD" I did was to set a sheet XY, routed a 1/4" line down those lines and then drilled out for Dowels in a couple of places. it helps with getting the sheet square on the table every time. the dowels just push in and if the router gets close, it just shears the top off, no harm no foul, for 3 cents a piece, it's worth it.

we do want to get a pedant for it... but I don't think ShopSabre has one available. but there is one available for the VFD, and it's not that expensive.

the next upgrade will probably be a larger HP spindle, the Mitsubishi rep says that this VFD will handle it so, it makes sense. not the 10HP probably look at around an 8HP, depending on cost

after that the tool changer, mainly because I want the saw blade head... if you have never seen it in action... it's WAY cool.

in the mean time, and my business partner is fighting me on this, I want to pimp it out with LEDs. how cool would that be, all the shop lights out and the LEDs flying around... anyway, I'll wait until he goes on vacation and I'll do it. SURPRISE!

[KustomKoncepts]

Im in the process of enclosing the bottom with 040 race alum. and brushes to seal there the gantry moves. I will post pics when I get that done. I made a Fence that runs the x and y counter sunk screws help hold the spoil board down and after installed I run a bit down in in manual mod making sure it touches the whole way and only takes off a little.. this wat I know it is square to the machine also.

[setguy]

great minds think alike, I am spending next week enclosing the lower of ours as well... only in MDF, it's cheaper and we have some laying around. we also built a sled that goes under the table for some of our cut off/test materials. it's crude but it works.

we load our machine from the "4 foot" end, I had thought of putting some rollers on the end to help but I haven't decided yet.

I have also been looking into enclosing our bearing blocks as well, I also want to put rail wipes on, we have them for our Mill, I just haven't been able to find ones that will fit these rails, so I'll probably make some.

[cabnet636]

e stop switches are just power interrupts that can be placed in line of your power line (on off) you just need a switch and some wire, homing and limit switches are even simpler, wincn 37 pin conectors are set up for inputs, mine is pins 1-5 and ground some simple contact switches wire and a stop block will accomplish this. my machine is not a shop sabre but i do have a clunk of iron with some bearings and motors, most of all i have win cnc!!! and it is the perfect program for our machines, my friends joesph and george have really mastered it most of the options listed should not be options but are included on most machines, personally i am a real fan of the mid size router but some of the sales tactics are rediculous "1200 ipm cutting" in what "butter"

jim

[ddgman2001]

I'm currently a Shopbot user - since upgraded to Mach 3 and Gecko drives. Shop Sabre is the front runner for my next machine (unless I move to larger quarters and then it's a HAAS mill).

I'd just really like to see a sub-forum for Shop Sabre so that there can be a knowledge base growing that doesn't require searching through the general population of threads.

Win CNC is another mystery. Not a lot of info out on this system that I can find.

I'm not complaining or bashing. I just need solid information on what to expect so that I can plan for it.

[cabnet636]

there are several "stars" using wincnc in our group of owners, today "boss rocker" came to the shop and helped me with my winini file a little further, he and another george have really tore into it and have had some excellent results, we will host a wincnc gathering in columbia sc after thanksgiving to help other owners with the applications for there machines all will be welcome and we will try to broadcast on the net

jim

[cabnet636]

i have asked the forum to move camaster and shop sabre to sub forum status as the list of "cnc zone member owners" of camaster, shopsabre, owners is growing, there are quite a few other machines that use wincnc like
(correct me if i am wrong) warthog, cnt. as well

if the forum allows this we will be able to get threads moved into the sub forums

any suggestions are welcome

jim
__________________

[ddgman2001]

Very cool. Thank you.

[cabnet636]

i made the request here

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=190

jim

[setguy]

RGH, any progress on your machine?

[pleather]

is anybody running the ss with mach? or do you have to use the win?