[pete from TN]

Lucky I just might try that when I get to that part. I do not see why it would not work. These new motors look real nice and I am anxious to see them work.

Davo,
Oh I see what you were saying now. I may just have to try that on my next build which will probably be a large cnc router. Thanks for the tip.....

[pete from TN]

I have been very busy with woodworking sidework and before that the holidays. However tonight I was able to spend a few hours as well as some yesterday working on the cnc conversion. I managed to get the boring head out and line up and bore the motor mount plates for the x and y axis to accept the bearings as well as machine and bore the two bearing keeper plates that I had to remake since I goofed and overbored the first time. SO I had to remake them from scratch and now they are within .001 and the bearings should be a nice slight press fit. I also managed to get the holes tapped for the bearing keeper plates into the main motor mounts. I was looking at my new heavy duty servo motors and realized that they have a round shoulder on their face which will cause me to have to machine another set of three plates with the same round hole in them to be the belt tensioning plates. This is not really a bad thing since it will make it all look a lot more professional but it IS another thing I gotta do to get this machine running.

I also finished the gecko heat sink standoffs and got them all installed. I have yet to machine the two ballscrews for the x and z but I did get the Y done. The X and y I am gonna try to machine with the machined sleeve method someone posted here earlier in the thread as I think it might ensure better concentricity. I still have yet to get the power supply ordered. I suppose I figure why get it here to sit and collect dust until the machine is all mechanically ready. I am really enjoying the new knee mill I sorta traded for my old Round Column mill drill and Dividing head(long story). The machine is so quiet and smooth and while I wish it were a little taller it is the nicest mill I have used yet. The Lathemaster will be my CNC baby and the knee will be the manual altho I will probably set up this machine with a DRO later on. I managed to pick up some metalworking side jobs using the new mill and that money will go to help pay for this rather expensive conversion stuff.

The motors I got are VERY nice and rather heavy. I think they should push this little mill around with relative ease. Really looking forward to getting this thing running now. The design I am using now is gonna be a 2-1 ratio because of the high power of these motors so I will hopefully get some decent rapids. Only problem is that the Geckos will be at their limits running them as far as power consumption goes. The largest power supply that can be run by a gecko setup is what I am looking at. This one is a toroidal with cap setup and runs around $130.00 plus shipping.

On a side note I also recently completed the buildup of my own Homebuilt Competition Field Target Rifle. It is a Regulated Precharged Pneumatic rifle that runs off a 3k charge from a 4500psi firefighters tank. SO far it is showing some very nice accuracy and I made it entirely on my small machines with the exception of the barrel. I intend to compete in the US FIeld Target association this year with the new gun. Wish me luck....

Anyways, when I get something worth looking at I will definitely post some pictures of my progress here. Thanks for reading and peace..

[jalessi]

Pete,

Where did you get plans for your air gun?

Jeff...

[pete from TN]

I mostly built it from what I have learned taking my purchased guns apart as well as talking to people who have built their own airguns on the net. I did however find some plans from a good friend for the regulator assembly which was a very difficult thing to machine. Lots of tiny internal boring and threading. I guess I did okay tho because it is working pretty good right now. If you are interested in building an air rifle, I would be glad to give you some ideas that helped me out. This gun is all steel and aluminum. I have yet to treat the steel tho so it is still in the white. You also need to pressure test the resorvoir and valve assembly before you put the high pressure air to it because a failure here is a veritable pipe bomb.... It was a real steep learning curve and I also needed to learn how to single point thread really well in the lathe but I am glad I did this because now I can build most anything I want. The valve is made from Delrin plastic and the trigger is a design I kinda worked off of from a Daystate Cr97 rifle I used to own. Are you into airguns? peace

[jalessi]

Pete,

4500 PSI would be like a hand greenade going off in your face if it malfunctioned, no doubt it needs to be built with the utmost safety in mind.

I am very interested, please tell us more.

Jeff...

[pete from TN]

Yes it is very important that you understand the way these actions work and the tolerances necessary to build one. Again it is also necessary to pressure test the resorvoir and that is with the endcap and valve body installed. That way it is being tested as it will be when the gun is assembled. If you have never seen a rifle like this they are pretty interesting. These airguns are very nice to shoot because they basically function like a bolt action rifle in that there is no pumping or cocking of the action as in a mainspring airgun. The high pressure is kept in a tubular steel resorvoir that sits under the barrel and a poppet valve holds that high pressure back. The rest of the action works much like a co2 type pistol in that a weighted hammer is cocked back against the pressure of a spring and held behind the trigger sear until the trigger is released allowing the hammer to be propelled into the end of the valve stem by the pressure of the hammer spring. This inertia will knock the valve open very briefly allowing the high pressure air into a little port that leads into the barrel behind the pellet. The high pressure in the resorvoir will serve to then slam the valve shut in readiness of the next shot. That is basically it in a nutshell as far as the operation of the action.

There are some specific machining operations necessary to create the o-ring sealing areas on the resorvoir and the valve body that I have been researching for some time now. The resorvoir tubing is also internally threaded to accept the endcap and the valve body which are also threaded with the same setup in the lathe. It is difficult to describe this without some pictures so here are a few of my rifle, keep in mind that the metal still needs to be either anodized or blued but the action is complete. Hope you like it.....peace..

[Bowman]

Hi Pete this is Dee from the Yellow forum, got your thread marked now and it looks like your making good progress. It is inspiring me to get out there and start to work more on my CNC router table and get my mill X axis working right.

Not to mention jealous as hell about those lovely air rifles your building thats what I really want to get into doing one of these days.

Dee

[jalessi]

Pete,

That looks like a very kewl rifle, how accurate is it?

Jeff...

[pete from TN]

Right now it is about as accurate as any of the manufactured Field Target rifles I have owned which is to say that in calm winds it can shoot around 1/2 inch five shot groups at fifty yards off the bench. It is also as I said not finished and I just recently got introduced to a finishing process called Moly resin and I am gonna do some test pieces with the finish to see how it goes and I will then decide if I am gonna do the whole gun with it.

Dee good to see ya on the zone man, I am sure if you ask questions here about your Sherline x axis problem you will find quick and intelligent answers. The guys here are pretty knowledgeable. I am not so I cannot help you much at all...

I did manage to get some more work done this weekend on the mill. I did some more machining on the mounts for the ballscrews/motors and I also machined all the standoffs for the mounts on the lathe. The little buggers needed to be machined with 1.75" aluminum x .5" round with 1/4-20 tapped on both ends. I thought I could just pop them out but they actually took some time to cut to length, face, face to length in the lathe, center drill, drill and tap about 24 holes. I was able to rigid tap them in the lathe so it went not too bad. I also made a trip to the hardware store for the myriad of socket head capscrews needed. I am gonna hopefully have the mounts all machined and assembled by this weekend and I can then try to mount all of the parts on the mill. I am trying to find a solution for an anti backlash setup for the 3/4 inch ballnuts I have here. Preferrably cheap or homemade but so far I have not had any luck with it. Any ideas guys.... peace

[pete from TN]

Hey guys,
I am getting real close to being ready to start the electronics build on my Lathemaster cnc conversion. I have the motor mounts machined and nearly completed for the three axes and I already machined the ballscrews. I am now ready to order a power supply....

My system is going to be the CNC4PC C11G board, three of the Keling inc. KL34 180-90 servo motors with US digital encoders. I am using Gecko G320 servo drives. I understand that they are rated for a max of 80vdc. I have been following the build of Bob Warfield and he apparently now has the machine running with an Antek power supply of 70vdc and 1000w. I was looking at their website and found a pps that looks pretty good. It is the Ps-10n70R5R12. It is a 70VDc supply with a 12v 1a and 5v 1a output setup. From what I gather the bob needs the 5v and looking at the data sheet pdf on cnc4pc's website the board might also need the 12v to run alternative outputs like spindle control and other stuff. I know nothing about this stuff and I just wanna buy the right pps. Is this one about right or do I need to look at another model. The keling motors are continuous 7.8amp and they are a failure at 90vdc I guess. I am thinking about a 3-1 ratio on the pulleys based on some calculations made by a good friend on here. If any of you electronics gurus have an idea what I need for a power supply I would really appreciate any input. Thanks and peace....

[Jason3]

I was looking at their website and found a pps that looks pretty good. It is the Ps-10n70R5R12.

You're bang on the money That should be the one you want. Funnily enough, I posted this for someone else just yesterday...

From John @ Antek:

Our Power supplies can always handle up to 200% of its rated current for few minutes. The best way to estimate the power supply that you need is the sum of all motor current times 60% times voltage.

So, for a 70v supply, based on about 7.8 amps per servo you're looking at 7.8 amps x 3 servos x 60% x 70 volts = 983 watts...

Best regards,

Jason

[pete from TN]

I was unsure if I was going in the right direction here. That formula for the pps sounds good to me. The motors data sheet on the keling inc website is where I got the 7.9 amp rating and it says terminal voltage is 90vdc. I think you are right that this size main power supply is the one I need and it seems to have worked well for Bob too. I also am wondering however about the 5v and 12v inputs. Have most fellas used a pps like this that provides this or do most rely on the computer for the 5v logic power. The geckos need power too I guess. I am a newbie here and while I have read a lot about this stuff I am still unsure what I need. I guess this pps setup in a 220v config would be nice and if it has extra outputs and I wind up not needing them then so be it. The nice thing is that the pps is all done and it is one less thing I will need to work on hopefully. I have been steadily working on the machine lately and I feel I have made a lot of progress. I really need to post some pictures of the stuff I have completed so this looks like a build thread. Only problem is that my time is real tight with work and sidework and when I get out there to work on the mill I am so focused on getting stuff done on it I forget to grab the camera. Gotta put one out there are leave it there so I notice it I guess.... Anyways, much appreciated and thanks for the information....peace...

[Jason3]

Hi Pete,

I had a quick scan back through the thread to refresh, but didn't find out what you're intending to use to isolate the PC from the machine?

If you use an optoisolated breakout board, the PC can supply power via a USB connection for the PC logic side, but still requires 5v for the machine side of the optoisolators - that's where the regulated 5v from the Antek supply comes in. You might not need the 12v output but it doesn't cost much extra, and you'll sure be glad you got it if you do need it, now or in the future!

Just by the way (if you hadn't picked this up, and thought it might be handy for your build) the Antek supplies can be ordered with three separately fused main outputs, with an LED indicator on each one - see pic, middle right hand side. This supply is a PS-8N80R12F (800 watts, 80Vdc, 12v auxiliary) - nice, and heavy too. I believe the 'F' on the end of the model No. denotes this option.

Photos are good We all like looking at pictures! You know what they say, a picture is worth a thousand words... but I keep forgetting my camera too :cheers:

Best regards,

Jason

Edit - Oops, that is the 600 watt supply - the 800 watt one has a taller toroid but is otherwise the same.

[pete from TN]

is supposed to be optoisolated from the computer as well as buffered. I do not understand all of that but it all sounds pretty good. So I guess you are saying that the power supply I am looking at will be the 70vdc model with the 5V and 12V outputs and have the three fuses and led's on it. Got any idea how I would find a part number for it. Or would you just call and specify over the phone. I was kinda thinking I would order it this weekend so they are probably closed now....peace..


By the way, I just got the One shot oiler setup ordered and I was looking for information about the little push lock fittings for the various points, elbows, t fittings, etc. Got any pointers about this or maybe a good cheap source? ...

[Jason3]

The C11G has a rather difficult to follow manual - it's not clear (to me, anyway) exactly how much current it requires on the 5v side, and whether the 12v input is required if not using the analog spindle speed control output. Hopefully somebody who has the one will be able to clarify things there

Make sure you don't power both sides of the optoisolators with the same power supply!

You don't need the 3 fused, indicated outputs but I reckon they are nice to have. I think the part number should be as you listed before, but with an 'F' at the end: Ps-10n70R5R12F - I'd email John at Antek and describe what you want to ensure you get the right unit.

Regards,

Jason

[Al_The_Man]

Hi Pete,
I had a quick scan back through the thread to refresh, but didn't find out what you're intending to use to isolate the PC from the machine?
.

Just as a reminder, if you are using a Desktop or Tower PC, the MB 5v is most likely not going to be isolated from the machine, regardless of any BOB you use.
The MB supply and any mains powered spindle, VFD, SCR DC controller & the MB is going to be referenced to each other through their ground reference connections.
The big question is what is the nature of the path and how is it is being referenced?
This is often forgotten and overlooked by many, and the source of noise problems.
Al.

[Jason3]

Just as a reminder, if you are using a Desktop or Tower PC, the MB 5v is most likely not going to be isolated from the machine, regardless of any BOB you use.
The MB supply and any mains powered spindle, VFD, SCR DC controller & the MB is going to be referenced to each other through their ground reference connections.
The big question is what is the nature of the path and how is it is being referenced?
This is often forgotten and overlooked by many, and the source of noise problems.
Al.

There's always more to learn. Thanks Al, you're a real asset to this forum.

Do you have any suggestions for ensuring noise doesn't find it's way back to the PC via. the ground reference? Would this be a place to consider an isolating transformer perhaps?

Many thanks,

Jason

[Al_The_Man]

Those that have followed my previous post on this subject are probably aware now that I prefer the known to the unknown as it applies to making systems common.
This is an example of a previous post on the subject.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71923
I would not condone the isolation txfmr.
I take the PC P.S. common to the common ground plate. together with the other PS commons.
This way I definitely know the status of what is common and what is not or maybe common.
Al.

[pete from TN]

Well guys I have been working pretty steady on the Lathemaster lately and I thought I would show you some pictures. I finally got the X axis sorted out with the Ballnut mount machined and mounted and I put the setscrew in the fixed ballnut. I still have to machine all three axes' preload assemblies. I was able to install the X nut and mount and install the ballscrew/ motor mount and free end mount which is the stock unit I bored to accept the plain bearing. I put it together tonight and was able to carefully check for any binding and then run it back and forth with a cordless drill a buncha times. I gotta say that if my new servo motors are anything like this drill is the machine is gonna move quick!! I also took the Z slide off and had to make some careful modifications to the Z slide ballnut mount. For some odd reason on my machine there is no recess or shelf or anything for the cast iron nut mount to actually connect to the back of the Z slide. Looking at others rf45 conversions there seems to be some sort of ledge or recess that accepts the mount thus making it more rigid and not relying solely on the large SHCS that comes thru from the millhead side of the Z slide into this mount. So I looked at it and decided the best way to make it both more rigid and ensure there is no movement was to machine my Z axis mod bushing ( the round thing in the center of the slide) to protrude out the back of the slide and then recess the nut mount to accept it with a nice tight fit. I took the nut mount off the machine and carefully set it in the vise on my knee mill and using my homebuilt zero set test indicator holder and a dti I indicated the large OD of the shcs screwed into the mount to find a suitable center. I got it zeroed out pretty good and then commenced to mounting the boring head into the spindle and machined the recess to accept the OD of my bushing on the Z. This seemed to go real well and I left around .020 for the squish factor in the bottom of the recess. I bored the recess OD to be a tight fit on the bushing. I then test fit the mount and it seems to fit nice and tight. THen of course I will install the SHCS in the slide with a nice amount of torque to keep it there and put some loctite on it possibly as well.

I also machined the Z axis slide for the One shot oiler setup with two 90degree elbows on each side where the original button oilers were. The slide was already machined with oil channels in the ways so I did not have to do that.

I machined a plate to mount my bijur type oiler a la Industrial Hobbies and it came out pretty nice. I gotta get some tubing now and start to run all these fittings and see where I want them. I am still waiting on a replacement screw for my Y axis since the one I was hoping to use is not going to work due to a large flange and my unwillingness to clearance the cast iron bed for it to travel with the Y axis. SO I ordered another 24" ballscrew with two ballnuts for the Y. When it gets here I will machine it using Hoss's method again which seemed to work well. Then I can finally try to install the Y axis mount and machine a nice Y axis ballnut mount. I am trying to remember to take pictures but I get all involved with this and I forget but I did manage to take some....

I am gonna try to dismantle the Y slide tomorrow and drill and tap it for the one shot oiler and also take some careful measurements for the Y nut mount which I am gonna machine also tomorrow if I can. I do have a question for you guys tho....... I was wondering if there is any reason that I could not drill and tap for the oiler fittings into the thick dovetail area at the ends of theY slide horizontally and then drill down thru to meet the hole from the way area? This would put the fittings in a convenient area and they will be venting into the machined channels in the way faces that distribute the oil to the entire sliding surface. Would that work or will it just leak the fluid out near the end that is closest to the fitting? Does that make any sense because it is a lot easier to say than describe on here.

I am still as yet unsure of my electronics enclosure right now and I like the looks of Bob Warfields roll around cabinet as well as others with similar designs. I am torn with going that route or making it all fit under the machine outside of the enclosure.

I am kinda bummed out about the paint job on my machine right now tho because having used the machine for nearly eight years already it has it's share of chips and skuffs. I am half tempted to tear it off the stand and take it outside tomorrow and strip it down and repaing the whole thing. Anyone got any color suggestions? Anyways, here are some pictures of the build. Thanks and peace...

[pete from TN]

Hey guys,
Just thought I would post some more progress pictures of my Lathemaster conversion. I did a lot of work last weekend on the one shot oiler and got the xy table drilled and tapped for the fittings to accept the oil hoses. I kinda copied the way another RF45 builder did his X ways with a cross drilling operation to connect holes from the fitting in the middle of the table to the X slideways. Worked a treat but was a nail biter as I prayed the drill bit did not wander too much. Luckily I got it right and now I just gotta get some more low profile fittings and some 1/8 inch hose and I will be able to call the one shot oiler done. The Z was pretty easy and I am gonna drill and tap the Z ballnut mount for a fitting too when I get ready to reassemble the Z slide.

I gotta tell you fellas that I have been seriously fortunate to have made the acquantance of one Art Eckstein ( countrybubba). He has given me loads of information and ideas about this build as well as some kind friendship and encouragement along the way. I am afraid I may wear out my welcome but so far he is dealing with my incessant questions. Thanks art you are the man!!! Anyways, I just wanted to tell everyone on here about a seriously great idea he gave me recently. I had been wanting to make my own zero backlash nut setups and he has some good ideas about it and did his own as well. We were talking about it on the phone one night and I told him how I had to do the Z axis and that I was not sure I could put two nuts together up atop the Z mount and not sacrifice travel, I also expressed to him that I could not use the same setup he made for the 5/8" square profile nuts with my 3/4 inch round profile nuts. He said let me think about it and then e-mailed me the next day with a diagram. It was a great idea to basically use the two nuts one on top of the mount and one on the bottom. It used a spacer in between the cast iron mount area and a threaded collar and some wavy washers. I thought this was a great idea and wanted to do it to all three axes so we were talking about the preload pressures we thought might be adequate when he came up with another idea that basically uses one machined part to accomplish the preloaded nut idea on any axis. It really is so simple that I cannot believe I never thought of it before but art is a clever old fox and came up with it easy. I am gonna try to take some pictures of it and the best part is that it will not require the two nuts to be mounted back to back so limited space areas are easier to do with this setup. It has not been tested yet but so far I cannot think why it would not work just fine so I am gonna tell you guys about it. I machined the part on the lathe and threaded it last night but was unable to do the last operation before it got too late. I am gonna try to get to it before the weekend and I am expecting the washers from Mcmaster carr to get here soon. When they do I will try to take some pictures that will illustrate this simple yet elegant design. I am not sure if anyone else has come up with this idea yet but they may have so I make no claims as to it's originality, just that it is pretty cool!!

Here are some pics of the progress;;;;peace

P.S.
Please ignore the paint chips as I am thinking about stripping this thing and repainting it once all the work is done....got any color ideas? peace