[Gumby]

I have checked with Kennametal a couple of years back with the 1/2" coated one's I mostly use and it wasn't worth it.
We do grinding service on a 5 axes Deckel and yes, it seems most carbide endmills are being cut off and just done the ends.
If the coating is gone then the edge don't hold up very long, especially in hard steel. I only use them for general machining.
If the sides are being sharpened then they have a sharper edge,....it seems the coating dulls the edge slightly which helps against biting and vibration.
If I have a serious machining job in tool steel or high alloy's, then a new tool gets used.

Konrad

At least for the Gorilla Mill tools I've have sent to them for reconditioning they always come back with a new coating on them.

[cam1]

I send our carbide end mills back to the manufacturer (Deboer), and they come back just like new. Sometimes it's worthwhile to check with the supplier if they offer re-grind services, prior to making and order. This ensures that you'll get the most out of the tool.

regards

[tobyaxis]

I send our carbide end mills back to the manufacturer (Deboer), and they come back just like new. Sometimes it's worthwhile to check with the supplier if they offer re-grind services, prior to making and order. This ensures that you'll get the most out of the tool.

regards

Does anyone here use Niagara Cutter. I wonder if they have a resharpening program.

[Gumby]

Does anyone here use Niagara Cutter. I wonder if they have a resharpening program.

I know a couple of shops that use Niagara Cutters for aluminum but I've never heard of them resharpening the tools. No offense to Niagara but there are better carbide tools available for their prices O_o.

[tobyaxis]

I know a couple of shops that use Niagara Cutters for aluminum but I've never heard of them resharpening the tools. No offense to Niagara but there are better carbide tools available for their prices O_o.

I hear that. Shops here really don't buy them so I figured it was a good thread to ask.

Honestly DuraMills for the Price and Performance are good enough IMPO.

[Gumby]

I hear that. Shops here really don't buy them so I figured it was a good thread to ask.

Honestly DuraMills for the Price and Performance are good enough IMPO.

Do you run DuraMills whisperkut tools? Are you paying their list prices or... do you get some kind of discount?

$45 for a 3 flute 45 degree helix carbide tool for aluminum (coated in TiCN) from Niagara and that includes a 25% discount...

[tobyaxis]

Do you run DuraMills whisperkut tools? Are you paying their list prices or... do you get some kind of discount?

$45 for a 3 flute 45 degree helix carbide tool for aluminum (coated in TiCN) from Niagara and that includes a 25% discount...

I have a few Whispers 1 Ball 3/8D and 2 .5D Flat. They cut nice but I am using them in my garage on a Bench top Mill. I don't own a CNC Mill or Lathe...yet. I have been making a few of my own tools and custom components for a few other gadgets. I buy the DuraMills from a local distributor called Blue Point Tool in Bohemia, NY.

They charge the advertised price on the Internet Catalog.

$55.20 for the half inch standard LOC
$41.39 for the 3/8D Ball

Considering that they have gotten a lot of use in 300 series SS for 2 years the price is more than justified

[Gumby]

I have a few Whispers 1 Ball 3/8D and 2 .5D Flat. They cut nice but I am using them in my garage on a Bench top Mill. I don't own a CNC Mill or Lathe...yet. I have been making a few of my own tools and custom components for a few other gadgets. I buy the DuraMills from a local distributor called Blue Point Tool in Bohemia, NY.

They charge the advertised price on the Internet Catalog.

$55.20 for the half inch standard LOC
$41.39 for the 3/8D Ball

Considering that they have gotten a lot of use in 300 series SS for 2 years the price is more than justified

IMCO Powerfeed and Gorilla Mill tools are much cheaper than that and kick butt in 4130 and SS. In your application with a bench mill they would likely last just as long for a lower price. I haven't seen anything impressive about the DuraMill, just a bunch of patent this and patent that. Their testimonials aren't impressive to me either.

[tobyaxis]

IMCO Powerfeed and Gorilla Mill tools are much cheaper than that and kick butt in 4130 and SS. In your application with a bench mill they would likely last just as long for a lower price. I haven't seen anything impressive about the DuraMill, just a bunch of patent this and patent that. Their testimonials aren't impressive to me either.

DuraMill is all they had that wasn't Chinese LOL. They had a few other good brands but I didn't want HSS. LOL I'm a Carbide Freak, but under specific circumstances use HSS. Titanium being on of those.

I like the Hanita VariMills too.

[Gumby]

DuraMill is all they had that wasn't Chinese LOL. They had a few other good brands but I didn't want HSS. LOL I'm a Carbide Freak, but under specific circumstances use HSS. Titanium being on of those.

I like the Hanita VariMills too.

Ack! HSS in titanium? Give a ZrN coated carbide tool a shot in titanium. Look for a tool with a high helix angle (ie 45 instead of 30) or variable helix/pitch tools. I think you'll be happy. Are you running a Tormach or similar machine?

[tobyaxis]

Ack! HSS in titanium? Give a ZrN coated carbide tool a shot in titanium. Look for a tool with a high helix angle (ie 45 instead of 30) or variable helix/pitch tools. I think you'll be happy. Are you running a Tormach or similar machine?

DUDE!!!! Tormach!!!! Yuk!!! No toys at the job. Enshu, Mori, Nakamura-Tome, Ikegai, Dainichi, and Matsuura.


My bench top is in the garage for making various tools and gadgets. It is Chinese but works per application. You can hold +-.0003 without a problem.
It has an R8 2HP spindle, 18 x 9 table. It will never see any high performance machining LOL. But I refuse to buy Cheapo Tools and Tool Holders for it.

I was apprenticed by 6 different certified machinists for the last 16 years ( and still to date ) . Only a few of them know one another, but all are Damb Good on Manuals as well as CNC , Mills, Lathes, Swiss, and Gear Shapers/Hobbers. Though I am not certified and Obviously Don't Know Everything I get by on pure Ethics, Passion and Common Sense.

Do what you Love and Love what you do.

LOL, Tormach My CAD/CAM PC and Software Cost More

[Gumby]

DUDE!!!! Tormach!!!! Yuk!!! No toys at the job. Enshu, Mori, Nakamura-Tome, Ikegai, Dainichi, and Matsuura.


My bench top is in the garage for making various tools and gadgets. It is Chinese but works per application. You can hold +-.0003 without a problem.
It has an R8 2HP spindle, 18 x 9 table. It will never see any high performance machining LOL. But I refuse to buy Cheapo Tools and Tool Holders for it.

I was apprenticed by 6 different certified machinists for the last 16 years ( and still to date ) . Only a few of them know one another, but all are Damb Good on Manuals as well as CNC , Mills, Lathes, Swiss, and Gear Shapers/Hobbers. Though I am not certified and Obviously Don't Know Everything I get by on pure Ethics, Passion and Common Sense.

Do what you Love and Love what you do.

LOL, Tormach My CAD/CAM PC and Software Cost More

haha I meant if you had a Tormach at your home since you said a benchtop mill. If you are running their TTS I would say ditch them. 2hp is enough to remove some metal but the TTS will pull out of the collet when you push anything larger than 1/4" tool hard.

I personally have a Takisawa MAC V2, 7klbs, BT40 7.5hp 10krpm spindle. Nothing special compared to the new Mori NH4000 I know another local shop owner just bought last year but hey we do what we can with what we have.

[Steve Seebold]

I agree but the most I've ever seen taken off the diameter is .003" (.0015 off each side) on a 1/2" tool. Any more than that was an indicator of a poor regrind or a damaged tool. In most cases I've seen only the inside of the flute needs to be reground to get back to a keen edge. On a 3/4" 4 flute tool it makes sense to have the grinder take .0005" off each flute to get it back to sharp instead of just buying a new one. This is also why I like just having them regrind the end of the tool that is worn because the rest of it retains its original geometry (abait slightly shorter than before).

If you have a cutter grinder who can sharpen an end mill and only take .003 off the diameter, you obviously have someone who knows what he is doing.

Every time I sent end mills out to be sharpenrd, the person doing the grinding would look for the worst end mill, make a set up and grind all cutters that size. I guess it required too much imagination to look at a cutter and think, " I could grind the flutes down, or I could cut it off and regash the end. I have had a 3/8 4 flute end mill come back .310 diameter. That works until you touch the part, then the cutter is dull instantly. You're actually cutting with a negative rake tool.

[Steve Seebold]

IMCO Powerfeed and Gorilla Mill tools are much cheaper than that and kick butt in 4130 and SS. In your application with a bench mill they would likely last just as long for a lower price. I haven't seen anything impressive about the DuraMill, just a bunch of patent this and patent that. Their testimonials aren't impressive to me either.

I used the DuraMill Whispercut in my shop. When I started using them, I had a part that was 4130 and took over an hour to ruff, when I switched to the Whispercut, my ruff time came down to 26 minutes. Granted, I was always a little on the conservative side, but still, half the time was great. It took the part from break even to a money maker. Then I got hold of the Hanita Varicut, and WOW. I ruffed the same part in 18 minutes.

When I first started running the Whispercut end mill, Dave from DuraMill told me to increade the feedrate until I broke the end mill, then back it down 10% and go. All I could say was "WOW".

[Gumby]

I used the DuraMill Whispercut in my shop. When I started using them, I had a part that was 4130 and took over an hour to ruff, when I switched to the Whispercut, my ruff time came down to 26 minutes. Granted, I was always a little on the conservative side, but still, half the time was great. It took the part from break even to a money maker. Then I got hold of the Hanita Varicut, and WOW. I ruffed the same part in 18 minutes.

When I first started running the Whispercut end mill, Dave from DuraMill told me to increade the feedrate until I broke the end mill, then back it down 10% and go. All I could say was "WOW".

Just out of curiosity what kind of machine are you running it on (make, taper, hp, etc)? What was the size of tool, SFM, and chipload? Just saying it reduced your cycle time doesn't say a whole lot because for all I know you were only previously running 100sfm in 4130. If you were already pushing 450sfm then that would be a different matter.

How about 1018 steel? Can the DuraMill run 1000sfm in a (1/2" tool at 3/8" stepover and .5" deep) in this material with good tool life?

[tobyaxis]

How about 1018 steel? Can the DuraMill run 1000sfm in a (1/2" tool at 3/8" stepover and .5" deep) in this material with good tool life?

This would be interesting to test on a few machines. I'm also interested in what a Gorilla Mill would do under these circumstances.

Seriously I would be looking for a good indexable insert tool. Like and Iscar HeliMill. Or a 35 to 40 degree variable helix 4 to 6 flute carbide.

It is very tough to say not being in front of the machine and seeing the application.

Some of the older machines are so worn out that you would be lucky to get good feeds and speeds in aluminum.

[Gumby]

This would be interesting to test on a few machines. I'm also interested in what a Gorilla Mill would do under these circumstances.

Seriously I would be looking for a good indexable insert tool. Like and Iscar HeliMill. Or a 35 to 40 degree variable helix 4 to 6 flute carbide.

It is very tough to say not being in front of the machine and seeing the application.

Some of the older machines are so worn out that you would be lucky to get good feeds and speeds in aluminum.

We will actually be running those very parameters on a relatively new sharp VMC here as soon as the machine has a steel job again. Shooting for a .0045 -.005 CLPT at those speeds too. If Duramill wants to pony up a tool to the shop who will be doing the test so we can see a side by side comparison on the same machine I am game to put them in contact with each other. The shop already has a Sasquatch tool (rougher/finisher) and a standard LOC 4 flute tool from me so they can test to see if the tools will yield them any more performance.

I've found that indexable tools really only shine is 3/4" and up. In a 1/2" tool I can always get a better removal rate out of a solid carbide. I do own some SECO minimaster tools. Neat concept that gets you solid carbide performance out of a 1/2" shank indexable tool. Problem is they are limited to two and 3 flute designs. So they are good for roughing/pocketing but a 5 or 6 flute profiling tool will spank it in feed and surface finish. I wouldn't be able to live with out my 2.5" face mill from Maritools. Great cutter that I believe was a copy of a Mitsubishi design but I could be wrong on that.