[oltimer]

mc
now that your true colors are showing and you think you and philbur and a few others like you are the basis for learning on this blog i'm sure your insults to this blog and its regular posters are really heartfelt and will be missed by at least 1500 of us dumb hobbyist. p.s. please take philbur with you.

i must be dumb
oltimer

[Caprirs]

Evan,

I am glad to hear that you are thoroughly familiar with the measurement process. It means your opinion on how "perfect" a hole can be is probably better than mine since you have more experience measuring features. My background is a BSME and then worked as a production engineer for a place making 40,000 parts per month, then engineer for a machine tool builder, then as a tool designer for a widget company. For the past nine years, I have made a living as a machinist using my own two VMCs. I have no formal training in machining, only what I have tried to learn from others.

It is news to me the IH weighs 1000lbs. Thank you for enlightening me as that is significantly more substantial than I percieved. I confess I still think that's pretty light compared to the workpiece in this instance.

I have not had to work on a VMC with linear guides. Although, linear guides have vastly different applications. The way Haas does linear guides is not comparable to the way Makino or Mori Seiki do linear guides. People tend to use the term "linear guides" as a perjorative but there are a lot of excellent machines using linear ways.

It wouldn't matter how perfectly round the cylinder was bored, it still wouldn't be round enough for the block heads that just keep spamming up good threads with their opinions that nobody cares for.

mc
now that your true colors are showing and you think you and philbur and a few others like you are the basis for learning on this blog i'm sure your insults to this blog and its regular posters are really heartfelt and will be missed by at least 1500 of us dumb hobbyist. p.s. please take philbur with you.

i must be dumb
oltimer

I am not a nay saying prophet of doom. I am not a know-it-all. I am a skeptic in this instance. I have made my points without name calling, insults or snippy remarks. My contributions have been intended to clarify how the process shown in the pictures can be determined to be successful based on measureable parameters. I have offered my experience measuring the deflection/inaccuracies of machine tools and my experience in measuring machined parts.

In fact, if this guy can demonstrate the cylinders are sufficiently accurate (roundness, cylindricity), I would be encouraged to try boring an engine block on my machine. The truth is I want this guy to succeed because it means I have a good chance of duplicating his results with my heavier, more rigid VMC.

[mc-motorsports]

mc
now that your true colors are showing and you think you and philbur and a few others like you are the basis for learning on this blog i'm sure your insults to this blog and its regular posters are really heartfelt and will be missed by at least 1500 of us dumb hobbyist. p.s. please take philbur with you.

i must be dumb
oltimer

You need a mentor and a formal appreticship, nothing else could possibly help you and the 1500 followers you declare, you REALLY need a proper education and appreticship. Really! God help you, and best of luck to you, your obviously not a machinst for a living.

[oltimer]

caprirs
just think, if you go with mc and philbur to their new forum, you could become their resident expert skeptic, a title you well might well enjoy. just make a video of the process so we could all see if you can really do it.
oltimer

[mc-motorsports]

caprirs
just think, if you go with mc and philbur to their new forum, you could become their resident expert skeptic, a title you well might well enjoy. just make a video of the process so we could all see if you can really do it.
oltimer

Oltimer, you really are dumber than ****. You've only ever posted under IH crap, I have to believe your only a hobbyist, not a real machinist, and would you like to expain to a newb that ****ed up his block because he read your crap because he read the BS that comes out of a newb or unexperienced apprentice, that is was the wrong way to do things.

For $160, you can have a block bored and honed to within .0002" declared tolerance per the piston manufacture of the piston diameter. For people that don't know **** like OLTIMER, a REAL engine machinist will bore and hone within .0002" of the piston skirt diameter which can easily vary .0002" because they are finished on a lathe, ask me how I know.

Then, the best engine machinist charge by the hour, why? Because you pay them what it's worth to have things done right the first time, and they will get the bore and cylindrical tolerance less then .0001".

Olitmer, you should REALLY knock if off with your BS, if you don't know what your doing, just shut up, don't guide others in the wrong direction, it is a diservace to those that "google" or othewise seach this forum to learn. Your ignorance and lack of experience shines through. Spare me your BS. And when someone like Philbur cites his experience for reference, you should REALLY cite yours to back up your BS, I doubt you have any to speak of.

Newbs, be warned, anyone with a keyboard can post here. You always admire what you really don't understand.

[oltimer]

mc
your last post was awe inspiring. and calling newbs know nothing hobbyist goes right along with your know it all personality. your the expert and you make sure we all know it. i have never tried to tell anyone anything about machining in my post, only to compliment them on their work, but it really irritates me on how you certain few guys will tell someone who has tried to do something and probably succeeded that they did it all wrong and your pictures are all phony and if you don't make a video on how you did it no one should believe it can be done. these guys are proud of their work and rightfuly so. your expertize is shoved in the dumb hobbyist face (thats what you call us) not to ever help a newb, but to let them know that you are better than them in all aspects of life not just machining. go away. p.s. your spelling is getting a little better.
oltimer

[Cruiser]

All I gotta say is this, If someone came to me and asked me very politely, and waved thousands of dallars in my face, to bore his engine block and hold tollerance to under .0001" ...............chirp............chirp............. .I'd tell him to take it to MC motorsports because he is the best and the onliest that can do such a thing !
I know what .0001" means, and I know what it is to try to measure .0001" on the shop floor ! And I know that the only way to proove .0001" is in an enviromentally controlled inspection room after letting it soak for a couple of hours at 65deg's. And I know how much of a change can take place between pulling a part out of the machine, palleting it, and soaking it, and prooving it ! For many years It was guys like me that cut'em, and I got the scars all over my ass to proove it ! And quite frankly that is presicely why I'm not doing it right now, too damned stressfull ! I used to thrive for the challenge, but one day it just got to be .................chirp .................chirp.................c h i r p....!


PS: Thanks Oltimer ! I'd say some of that stuff and mean it too, but my balls ain't big as yours

[rangergt]

This is an Industrial Hobbies support forum, key word being support. The people that own IH mills are hear to support each other with completing projects and demonstating the capabilities of our machines. If you have never operated or even seen a IH mill in person what would you really know about it? Formal education doesn't mean jack if you don't know how to use it. I met and worked with a lot of taleted people that had no formal education but were unbelievably skilled in their field. Since were throwing around credentials I have a formal education in mechanical engineering, comlpeted with the diplomas but really I'm just another dumb hobbyist. I'm ok with that because I'm enjoying machining dumb hobby things on my mill. The original post was not about optimal setup for machining of an engine block but is it possible to accomplish the task. I believe the task was accomplished but that's just my dumb hobbyist opinion.

[mc-motorsports]

I discourage nobody, and I deny only those that do not want to learn. And I can honestly say that I've learned more by teaching, than could have been taught. If you don't understand, you have yet to learn.

It bothers me that people seach these forums and come accross these forums via "Google" for an answer, solution, or process to a problem, would find anything but the best advice. I strongly believe that anyone who's read though half of what is here could buy a clue, problem solved.

A correct process for every application and operation, sometimes the imagination exceeds the realm of reality.

I never won a spelling contest, sorry to disappoint, my apologies. (like I give a ****)

MC

[BobWarfield]

All I gotta say is this, If someone came to me and asked me very politely, and waved thousands of dallars in my face, to bore his engine block and hold tollerance to under .0001" ...............chirp............chirp............. .I'd tell him to take it to MC motorsports because he is the best and the onliest that can do such a thing !
I know what .0001" means, and I know what it is to try to measure .0001" on the shop floor !

0.0001 or 0.0002, Cruiser is right. If you don't like these forums, take those claims over to Practical Machinist and they'll dish out the same grief when claiming those kinds of tolerances, and there are many fewer hobbyists there.

Reality is that performance car stuff and firearms for some reason tend to accumulate a ridiculous number of crazy claims like this. It's a competition of one upmanship, and so everyone has to make a better claim than the other peeps. Most of these vehicles/guns never wind up being tested in real competition, and the winners of the real races aren't talking so much about what they're really doing.

Another reality is that those that send out their parts to be machined for a motor often do not have the skills or instruments to verify the claims on what was done.

But here is the thing. Just try to even find engine blueprint specs that call out tenths like that. That is so far from what any factory, including the Porsches of the world, offer, that it's just starting to get silly.

Whether or not your machineshop can be perfectly temperature controlled enough to deliver a tenth, what about you engine? Do you seriously think that while running full bore in a road race or even a drag race there won't be enough temp differential from top to bottom of the bore to matter more than a tenth?

So relax. Bore a few blocks on your IH, it can do it. Or don't. But some have and the others complaining it isn't clear that they've bored much of anything.

Cheers,

BW

[oltimer]

mc
in 9 post on this thread you have gone from calling this fellow a liar to a foot stomping tirade to preaching philosophy on your Creator given gift to teach. if you put all 9 of your post together and read it as an essay the average guy might come to the conclusion that your sitting at right hand side of the Creator in your own mind as the teacher of all teachers. there are names for people like you, egomaniacal, narsistic and a few more. it must really hurt to live in your mind, but you don't have to take it out on us, although it is sort of entertaining.
oltimer

[EvanVH]

MC

This blog or forum is really to help out people with IH mills, with assembly and to answer any questions a person that has not purchased a IH mill might have. If you want machining technique or how to, this is not the place to look.

If you think that people will read this forum and then go out and make a mess of things. Well they need to do more research and read more. If I was building a big block ford this is not the place I would look for advice.

This thread started just to show what somebody did on there IH mill. Not instructions on how to bore a v8.

I really think you have some great knowlege in motor sports combined with machining.

You are letting oltimer get under your skin. If you have the knowlege and you have passed it on then why act like a child who can't control there temper.


Evan

[philbur]

I think for anybody wanting to attempt this boring operation it would be a good idea to bore and hone the first cylinder undersize. That way you could check your technique for roundness and cylindricity and still have 7 more to practice on before doing it for real. If you don’t get it right after 8 practice attempts you can still take it to a professional shop and not have to junk it.

A DTI could be used as a comparator for roundness and cylindricity at different points on the circumference and the bore. The down side of this measuring technique is that it would only measure the sum of the machine and part errors. A way round this might be to use a home made ”plug” gauge on a rod, together with a set of feeler gauges. You could check at four different points around the circumference and at four different heights in the cylinder.

The guy that actually did the operation used a combination of the quill and feeding of the head. I think that if feeding the head produces an acceptable surface finish I would be tempted to use it for the whole 8” stroke. The quill gets very flexible when extended to 5”.

Phil